Mind your monitors!

[heni30]

I just set up my new main monitor and I was shocked at how yellowish gray the whites on the old one had gotten. The deterioration happens so gradually, like the frog in the boiling water, that it's easy to not be aware of it creeping up.

 

I do have the Huey Calibrating system but being Mexican I'm always saying "Manana, manana." (tomorrow, tomorrow) as I roll over and get back to my siesta.

 

Got a nice Dell - U2412Mb

[RyderSK]

Mind you though, U2412M being their budget IPS panel, it doesn't come 'factory calibrated' as their upper range does. So it's worth calibrating.

I use it now as sidepanel to my U3014, and I would say it's bit off to blue.

 

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/content/dell_u2412m.htm

[heni30]

Thanks for the info! It seems like the calibrator I have is out of date but I found a couple of thread recommendations that I will look into.

Edited August 6, 2014 by heni30

[markparsons]

I'm often on the go while working and am forced to use my laptop (I know...) I always try my best to send prelims to my tablet/phone, etc to test what the output looks like but it always ends up looking shit. I used to have one of the Cinema Displays and it was calibrated and everything turned out great, but now I'm using an LG that is such a pain in the ass to calibrate I'm considering just getting a physical calibrator so I don't have the headache. Proper calibration is one of the things I think that has been hardest for me to remain consistent with due to hardware limitations. If you look at my work the colours are always a bit wonky. Juraj is right, though, the upper Dell models are properly calibrated from what I've seen and look great.

Edited August 7, 2014 by markparsons

[yuriisuhov]

Someone said that 27inch DELL are using same IPS panels as Thunderbolt displays, but the difference is in enclosure and that DELLs need to be calibrated while Thunderbolts are ready to go. I still think that you should calibrate displays every once in a while, therefore it is necessary to have a proper tool for that.

[RyderSK]

Someone said that 27inch DELL are using same IPS panels as Thunderbolt displays, but the difference is in enclosure and that DELLs need to be calibrated while Thunderbolts are ready to go. I still think that you should calibrate displays every once in a while, therefore it is necessary to have a proper tool for that.

 

Upper Dell Ultrasharps 27-30" are still very varied by panels: {Source by TFT Central website}

 

U2711 - H-IPS (LM270WQ2)

U2713HM - AH-IPS (LM270QW1-SLB2 or LM270QW1-SLC1)

U2713H - AH-IPS (LM270WQ3-SLA1)

 

Apple TB 27 H-IPS (LM270WQ1)

 

So it's basically the same panel as Dell 2711, but with glossy coating and LED backlighting. (in form or old White-LED)

 

Current top Dell panels use newest panel version, with advanced GB-LED which enables them to display wide-gamut color-space (not that we need it).

I've never heard of Apple displays coming better calibrated than Dells either.

 

TL-DR: Apple has the nicest designed displays concerning visual aesthetics. I use them in every visualization that need a computer. But it is absolutely subpar display to current top Dell models, for double their price. Whoever said opposite was quite confused imho.

 

[Dell displays owned: 2410,2411,2713H, 3014]

Edited August 7, 2014 by RyderSK

[heni30]

If anybody was thinking about it, B & H photo has the X-RITE ColorMunki Display calibrator for $159.50 - no tax, free shipping with a $25 mail-in rebate till August 31st. I just ordered one.

[Zdravko Barisic]

I just set up my new main monitor and I was shocked at how yellowish gray the whites on the old one had gotten. The deterioration happens so gradually, like the frog in the boiling water, that it's easy to not be aware of it creeping up.

 

I do have the Huey Calibrating system but being Mexican I'm always saying "Manana, manana." (tomorrow, tomorrow) as I roll over and get back to my siesta.

 

Got a nice Dell - U2412Mb

 

Exactly same story with me, I replaced mine after 5 years, and I did not know how yellowish it was! Like old newspapers!

[numerobis]

You need to re-calibrate every few weeks to maintain a constant result. I'm using the NEC SpetraView software and if i remember correctly the default setting for the calibration reminder was 2 weeks. I have set it to 4 weeks now...

But therefore a good factory calibration seems pretty worthless to me. I need a display that delivers good results when calibrated (hardware/automated).

[heni30]

Got my Colormunki Display yesterday - excellent product! Extremely sturdy and well designed. Software is very thorough and it has both easy and advanced modes so you can get in as deep as you want. There are like 50 tutorials on YouTube as well as educational videos on X-Rite's website.

Great investment.

[Dimitris Tolios]

I do like X-Rite and I believe their colorimeters are of great value - especially after the introduction of the ColorTRUE app that allows you to use your colormunki or 1iPro to calibrate your iPad or Android Tablet (or phone) to properly display colors - a great improvement in an invaluable tool for ArchViz, photographers etc.

 

Also agree with RyderSK on the Apple Cinemadisplays vs. other "pro" IPS panels - if anything, Cinemadisplay's are the least professional - at least in my mind as I dislike super-glossy monitors (in anything that is not touch enabled of course): having my "pro", expensive display super-calibrated but ultra sensitive to any kind of color cast / glare / reflection etc is not high in my book. Apparently looks is more important to Apple than me (and their products do look amazing), but also a huge client or future client base that buys into "Apple can't do wrong" scheme.

 

It is funny that all professional laptops offer matte screens @ a premium (even Apple's MBPs - or at least those used to a few years ago, I don't follow the laptop market that close), all professional desktop monitors outside Apple's are matte or semi-gloss at best. Wouldn't you think that there is a reason for that? If you did not guess it - it is better for more uniform colors and contrast.

 

What does Apple get by not doing it? Well, apparently glass & metal give it a more "professional" and premium feel, and what the majority of people "feel" about your brand is far more important.

[RyderSK]

Even though my Dell U3014 has 'semi'-matte cover, which looks way nicer than the former matte anti-glare my 2410 had (which after switching seems "dirty" esp. when viewing white surfaces), there is something special about the glossy screen. Every time I shop in some electro, I stop by to have a look at Apple screen. Sure, I see both myself, all the spotlights of the shop and all kind of stuff reflecting back at me...but it also somehow seems "sharper", more vivid. Just something about the experience.

Not that I would buy it or could use it, but...I understand the charm.

[Dimitris Tolios]

Yes, glossy (clean glossy that is - fingerprints mess the feeling) with proper env. lighting looks great.

Don't go far - just take a look @ modern cell phone & tablet screens @ full brightness in an evenly lit environment: contrast and sharpness appears great.

 

1st time I've held an iPhone 4? An iPad 3? A S5? Wow moments.

 

Perhaps a glossy screen is perfectly usable in a personal studio / office where things get moved around and lighting optimized exactly to cater for it being prone to reflections.

 

But in a busy workplace, with a few dozen workstations sharing the same space and having lighting coming from every direction - it is pretty hard to balance the benefits. Depending on your sitting schema, if you are high enough in the ladder to get your own space by the window - a corner office if you are lucky enough - guess what? A glossy display is nearly a pain to use - you end up keeping the blinds/curtains closed, or if you don't have those, putting solid cardstock or taping things on the window to get to work. Been there, it is not very practical.

 

Or you go this way and forget the "looks" part a bit.

Edited August 12, 2014 by dtolios

[RyderSK]

I sit next to window, without curtains ( I am not the "tech guy working in shadows" type of guy), so even the semi-matte shows slight glare at short time of day.

But I imagine if I had company like Neoscape/etc.. who have dedicated area just for clients, I would let them stare into glossy 4K TVs = ).

[lateralustool]

I am during some big hardware upgrade and I am looking for huge monitor. I've read that what probably all know that Nec SV Reference and Eizo CG/CX are just unmatched in color accuracy. As I am intrested in only big displays I'm thinking about Nec SpectraView 302 Refernece or Eizo CG277. But I'm also under very big impression of 4k and Dell UP3214Q panel. Just can't decide what to choose. Up to know i worked with two cheap monitors and i also love multi display setup.

 

For hardware calibration I've choose X-Rite i1Display Pro.

 

What is best to buy?

[RyderSK]

{discl: I can't say how much I dislike this forum system...I am either going blind or manage to 50perc. time hit "go advanced" instead of "post quick reply" and loose literally walls of text. F**king hell...}

 

tl,dr: Save your money (302 Ref Nec=3300 euros), archviz isn't hardcore print oriented, and either buy same spec tech (30", 10bit LUT, AH-IPS, GB-LED, Factory calibrated, hardware calibration possibility, LG panel) in normal outfit Dell U3014/ HP Z30/ Nec multisync/etc..

 

or, buy the 3214Q (or the Asus counterpart) and feel like the boss ;- ) Can be bought here for 2k now, and I am looking at it....intensively.

[Dimitris Tolios]

{discl: I can't say how much I dislike this forum system...I am either going blind or manage to 50perc. time hit "go advanced" instead of "post quick reply" and loose literally walls of text. F**king hell...}

 

tl,dr: Save your money (302 Ref Nec=3300 euros), archviz isn't hardcore print oriented, and either buy same spec tech (30", 10bit LUT, AH-IPS, GB-LED, Factory calibrated, hardware calibration possibility, LG panel) in normal outfit Dell U3014/ HP Z30/ Nec multisync/etc..

 

or, buy the 3214Q (or the Asus counterpart) and feel like the boss ;- ) Can be bought here for 2k now, and I am looking at it....intensively.

 

Could not agree more - on either the forum screwing over my long winded posts (is it a defense mechanism Jeff? - a feature, not a bug?) or saving some money and not getting an ultra-high-end NEC or Eizo over "good enough" monitors by Dell or HP using the same panels.

 

Yes, those won't be OMG-the-BEST but are close - especiaally if you calibrate them with a decent colorimeter and keeping up with re-calibrating every couple of months. Factory calibration is "OK", but even a colormunki brings a whole new level of accuracy in the mix - especially if results will be displayed over multiple platforms and/or different monitors. Sure, it is nice to have "the" amazing reference screen, but when you will be displaying images on not just that, but also laptop, tablet or TV screens, what's the point in depleting all you budget on just one, instead of pushing the average quality of your "toolkit" up a notch?

 

And when I can get two 1440p or even 1600p S-IPS / LED backlit Dells or HPs + the Xrite for less than a single top of the line NEC/Eizo 1440p - or a combination of other toys. It is not wise to put all your eggs in one basket.

 

4K is great, but with current Windows OS's scaling capabilities, I am afraid that anything smaller than a 32" might end up with too small text and/or UI buttons in some programs. 28" is perhaps passable too - haven't tried. But I do like having a 2nd monitor regardless of the real estate in the main one, and 32" is probably pushing the secondary one too far on the side for easily fitting it within my field of view - don't know. Would probably go for a 28" myself, but would not pay more than $1K for it. Heck, I plan on staying with my 2711 for the time being.

[RyderSK]

It will be soon second year that Dell 3214Q /Asus PQ321Q (and later igzo 'impostors' :- ) ) are on market and they managed to drop price by mere 30perc...with all their early-tech mistakes.

Since then, only other high-end IPS 4k is 24"...and big bunch of TN 28". Very odd setup. I honestly had higher expectations of market penetration.

But who knows.

 

I think that 32(31.5) could work fine. Even after few months, I consider my 30" to be too tall, but not too wide. I find the 16:10 to simply no longer work that well in this size. I run 30+24 and it's ok regarding overall width, could probably survive 30+27 or 30x2 as well, but I only always look at one at time, don't multitask. I keep it like notebook or file organizer merely.

Since the 32 is 16:9 instead, it's almost the same height, just bit wider. 4K could also look bearable at this size, 2.5k looks slightly blurry, like 24, but slightly worse. 2.5k definitely looks much better on my girlfriend's 27". Very crisp.

 

So it's 2k euros for the earliest 4K display with faults and drawbacks it has. But it's still so impressive. It's also the 'prettiest' Dell, not sure how much of compliment that is though ;- ).

[Corey Beaulieu]

I sit next to window, without curtains ( I am not the "tech guy working in shadows" type of guy), so even the semi-matte shows slight glare at short time of day.

But I imagine if I had company like Neoscape/etc.. who have dedicated area just for clients, I would let them stare into glossy 4K TVs = ).

 

We have dedicated areas for clients, but don't let that fool you. We still struggle with drift and clients that are in other parts of the world where we have to cross our fingers and pray that their monitors are stable enough to handle the colors that we deliver.

 

An admitted benefit to our company is that we have a graphic design department that uses iMacs and when the space is available I can paint on their machines. There has been much said about the Apple Displays, but one thing I really appreciate is the integrated calibration. For whatever reason and whether or not it is just in my head, I find that when I paint on an iMac, the image travels from machine to machine in a much more stable way.

 

As a Freelancer, if I had the money, I would buy an iMac simply to paint on as they have earned my trust beyond any other monitor I have used. For me it's all about how the image travels and less about how I feel about what I see on screen.

 

Also, not for nothin', but we have an entire wall of artists working against floor to ceiling windows of unobstructed sunlight. I sit inland and can't imagine what my colleagues go through in finishing their images. It is a true nod to their abilities as it is yours and your windows.

[RyderSK]

I am pretty sure that's just your haptic feeling, but don't get me wrong :- )

 

Of course, iMac to iMac translation is fine, it's regular sRGB panel in all cases.

 

Since all designers work primarily with Macs due to cultural reasons I think I can tell you my experience often ;- )

 

1)I use WideGamut panel, but used under sRGB regime for obvious reasons. Full calibrated pipeline in PS. I sent tiff with sRGB color profile to avoid hassle to designers. Designers open file on Mac in PS, probably set to ignore color profiles, and attach their "display profile"(!!), print, scan it, again re-attach color profile to "display" :- D, colors have been since shifted 100perc. and send it back to me. It's good times always.

 

But of course, no better than those who watch it on calculators. Just no any more problem-proof than PC. The Apple Display as I wrote above is same H-IPS sRGB only capable panel from LG as used in every mainstream display elsewhere. The MacOS, doesn't use any different color profiles than PC does, and same go for graphic cards. Outside of the Apple logo, there is no magic happening anywhere in background, so I am not sure what would you mean under "integrated calibration".