Sometimes it's tough working with clients

[Krisztian Gulyas]

I've had a chance last week to work with a difficult client

I'm just curious how you deal with them.

 

So she told me to model an office building (a gym, cafe, two different rooms and exterior) in 10 hours. I told her I can do it using the models I have, the quality won't be the best but presentable. When I finished modeling, I sent her the drafts and she realized that she sent me the wrong floor plans. No big deal, there was not much to change but it took some time. I sent her the low-res images again and now she wanted another design. I told her, in few hours I cannot model custom furniture and she told me its not worth continuing this project because Im clearly doing something else than what she needs. I told her I can buy furniture but that would cost a lot of money and I can make a list so she can choose. Now she doesn't reply (and doesn't want to pay).

 

I know a lot of people don't know actually how much work is needed for a single picture to be created (and I needed 6), but I did my best to create something worth looking at in about 16 hours.

[Tommy L]

I've had a chance last week to work with a difficult client

I'm just curious how you deal with them.

 

So she told me to model an office building (a gym, cafe, two different rooms and exterior) in 10 hours. I told her I can do it using the models I have, the quality won't be the best but presentable. When I finished modeling, I sent her the drafts and she realized that she sent me the wrong floor plans. No big deal, there was not much to change but it took some time. I sent her the low-res images again and now she wanted another design. I told her, in few hours I cannot model custom furniture and she told me its not worth continuing this project because Im clearly doing something else than what she needs. I told her I can buy furniture but that would cost a lot of money and I can make a list so she can choose. Now she doesn't reply (and doesn't want to pay).

 

I know a lot of people don't know actually how much work is needed for a single picture to be created (and I needed 6), but I did my best to create something worth looking at in about 16 hours.

 

Did you have a contract? It doesnt sound like you did. A contract defines expectations on both sides. With a good contract, jobs rarely go bad.

[Krisztian Gulyas]

Well, no. It wasn't just her fault that it went bad (i did the job without a contract), but actually it frustrates me more that they (a few) set the expectations so high, I cant believe they really mean it.

[Tommy L]

Well, no. It wasn't just her fault that it went bad (i did the job without a contract), but actually it frustrates me more that they (a few) set the expectations so high, I cant believe they really mean it.

 

This is rather naive.

[Krisztian Gulyas]

I guess I can learn from this. I thought easy money, I'll finish it quickly and get some money, but well, it turned out differently.

Edited October 7, 2014 by krisztiangulyas

[philippelamoureux]

You should make a contract and ask for at least 40% of the total payment before even considering starting imho. I think it's common practice to do so.

[Sketchrender]

Anybody want to put up a contract as a template

[RyderSK]

Anybody want to put up a contract as a template

 

There is one just on this page, posted few years ago by..[can't remember at this moment...american studio]. It's pretty good and I've been using modified version from it since start. It's part of that tutorial series (the second one ? Not the one by Wright)

It's actually so heavy it's downright intimidating for european clients but over at US people just comment on few sections and all goes on.

[Sketchrender]

Any chance I can get a copy for personal use.

I had a search here and could not find it.

Thank you

[Zdravko Barisic]

You can choose, either to die by hunger, if you have no money to eat, or to die by menthal deasise, you can get by clients like this!

Its up to you!

And yes, I do not think that client is ALWAYS right....at least it is not at surgery hospital...

[Devin Johnston]

The ASAI used to have a contract you could use but I believe you need to be a member to get it. It's worth the money though, I use it all the time and I've never had a client not pay.

[RyderSK]

It's this one, finally remember the origin. 3DAS

 

http://www.cgarchitect.com/2012/02/the-visualization-insider {Week4}

 

It's good base

[Krisztian Gulyas]

Yes, I see now. Even if the client was difficult to work with and not understanding, I shouldn't have started the project without a contract or something that ensures that this won't happen. I just got an email saying I'll get X money if I finish the job in about 10 hours. It sounded good, and I thought I have to work fast, no time for paperwork or anything. She sent me the plans, some photos and I started the job right there, but it turned out that it wasn't the right decision.

[notamondayfan]

I don't think the contract is where you've gone wrong in this instance (although a contract is a must!), it sounds to me like the client has little understanding of the processes, and had no idea what to expect. You as a supplier need to inform and educate clients as much as possible.

 

One of the toughest parts to our job is managing expectations. This ranges from time scales, to quality, to revisions, to scale, and so on. It sounds like your client has one thing in their mind, and you another, and so the differing expectations made the project doomed from the start.

 

It's a tough lesson to learn, but at least it was only a handful of hours wasted, not weeks / months of work.

 

Don't let bad clients get you down, there are plenty of good ones around!!

[M V]

You learned a valuable lesson. When you ASSUME, it makes an ASS of U and ME.

 

I go as far as stating how many rounds of edits there are and if the design or base CAD files change, then there is an additional charge, unless you are contracted to do some level of designing while you render. If that's the case, your price should reflect it.

 

Part of our job is to also communicate and educate our clients on what changing that CAD file means and maybe suggest a faster and cheaper way to get the job done. Most clients have no idea what time goes into 3D or even that a render can take hours to cook. In most cases, once I have explained this, they always offer to pay extra for the edits.

 

Draft a template for a contract today!

[Sketchrender]

Thank you

[CliveG]

When you ASSUME, it makes an ASS of U and ME.

 

Ha.... that'll explain it, I've been making assumptions all my life!

[Sketchrender]

Personally, I would go after your money.

The client is a professional, and you have spent your time and knowledge, doing what you were asked to do.

They knew you were working on it.

 

It you were a trades man, plaster a wall, you would expect to be paid as soon as the job is done.

I would stand my ground , and instead of you learning a lesson, it would teach the client a lesson.

Sorry if this seems harsh, you get paid very little for what you do.

 

[Zdravko Barisic]

Ha.... that'll explain it, I've been making assumptions all my life!

 

+1

Welcome to the club!

I have been assuming for whole my life, too, that the assuming is assumed!!!

Dear lord...

Bright side of assuming: that is habbit of mostly honoured and inteligent people, as they look whole world from themselves view of point.

And that view tells: Why should someone would be *******, if it sooooo stupid???

 

...

....

It you were a trades man, plaster a wall, you would expect to be paid as soon as the job is done.

I would stand my ground , and instead of you learning a lesson, it would teach the client a lesson.

Sorry if this seems harsh, you get paid very little for what you do.

...

 

You said very smart words...why should not learn a lesson by fighting for own rights?

I agree 120%!

Edited October 9, 2014 by okmijun

[Tommy L]

Personally, I would go after your money.

The client is a professional, and you have spent your time and knowledge, doing what you were asked to do.

They knew you were working on it.

 

It you were a trades man, plaster a wall, you would expect to be paid as soon as the job is done.

I would stand my ground , and instead of you learning a lesson, it would teach the client a lesson.

Sorry if this seems harsh, you get paid very little for what you do.

 

 

I think that would be putting pain on the pain. Rightly or wrongly, the money is a lost cause.

[Scott Schroeder]

For those stating that you should go after the money. You probably won't get it and the cost to get the money will far outweigh what you'll end up recovering.

 

The reasoning that the money can't get recovered is that the job was never completed. There was never a contract. There was never a stated set of deliverables. There was never an agreement on what was to be done in that short time. The client and the OP where on totally different planets on this job. The client pulled the job away as their needs where not being met. How can you argue that you need be to paid when you aren't even sure what you were supposed to be getting paid for in the first place? You'll end up playing a very nasty and very legally expensive game of Client Said Contractor Said.

 

Doing this type of work is not like Forest Gump going out running. You just can't start running until you see an ocean, turn around, and run until you see another ocean. You have to have a plan before you start.

 

We are the experts. We are responsible for educating the client on the process. We are supposed to know everything there is about being an independent contractor. It's not the client's job to do that for us.

[Sketchrender]

Scott

In Ireland , I would say 90% of work is done with out a contract.

I would be safe in saying in the Arc Viz business anything over 5K a contract would be used.

 

I would agree with educating clients, I had it the other day, and there is something nice about telling a major developer in the business why you cost the price you quoted.

 

Phil

[notamondayfan]

Scott

In Ireland , I would say 90% of work is done with out a contract.

I would be safe in saying in the Arc Viz business anything over 5K a contract would be used.

 

Wow!

 

I would say any work requires a contract. I've always had contracts with anyone (OK the £100 jobs dont), but anything more than that they do.

 

I have a contract because it's good practice, another it doesn't take very long, clients / me know where we stand, and also it sets a good precedence for any future work. I could imagine an existing client being a bit funny if on the 3rd job I suddenly spring a contract on them and they might wonder why now, and then it's a whole lot of explaining and awkwardness.

 

Also a contract protects us, and the client, it's a two way thing, so not having a contract is really a way to get into a difficult situation quickly.

 

Dean

[frog_a_lot]

I have done a few jobs without formal contract.. but remember if you have it all in writing in the form of emails etc then that can constitute a contract.

 

If i send a quote to someone and they reply telling me to proceed, then that is a basic contract. It doesn't cover many eventualities, but it does show proof that they commisioned the work and how much they owe you etc.

[velimirtuleshkov]

I never start a project without a signed contract anymore, got tricked once, not planning on getting bluffed again.