Sometimes it's tough working with clients

[M V]

I think this post just goes to show what happens when you don't have an formal written agreement.

[Justin Hunt]

not to say you cant get shafted even if you do have a contract, still even a simple one is better than nothing.

[M V]

We should start our own reality show where we repo renderings from clients that don't pay.

http://www.criterion.com/films/28051-repo-man

[Michael J. Brown]

...it sounds to me like the client has little understanding of the processes, and had no idea what to expect...It sounds like your client has one thing in their mind, and you another...

 

 

[Krisztian Gulyas]

I laughed out loud on that last post .

[Michael J. Brown]

I laughed out loud on that last post .

 

 

Though i'd like to claim originality on that graphic, I actually got it from another forum member here (don't recall who) when posted in response to a similar topic.

[Noise]

Fortunately, bad clients are in the minority but a contract is essential aswell as a clear email trail of decisions and instructions.

 

If a client decides not to pay there is little you can do except drag yourself through a legal process which someone has already mentioned would be more expensive than the money you are trying to get back so basically, forget it.

 

The best approach is to get a deposit and implement staged payments if the project is big enough. And never do the 30 day payment thing - whoever came up with that idea should be shot - pay on delivery.

 

If you spend some time at the beginning of the project setting out how the project will progress and when the client should receive updated imagery/animations I have found this to be by far the best way to do business. If they begin to change time frames or the design always follow this up with a confirmation email listing all aspects of the changes - it takes a few minutes but might save hours or days of misunderstanding down the line.

[Tommy L]

Fortunately, bad clients are in the minority but a contract is essential aswell as a clear email trail of decisions and instructions.

 

If a client decides not to pay there is little you can do except drag yourself through a legal process which someone has already mentioned would be more expensive than the money you are trying to get back so basically, forget it.

 

The best approach is to get a deposit and implement staged payments if the project is big enough. And never do the 30 day payment thing - whoever came up with that idea should be shot - pay on delivery.

 

If you spend some time at the beginning of the project setting out how the project will progress and when the client should receive updated imagery/animations I have found this to be by far the best way to do business. If they begin to change time frames or the design always follow this up with a confirmation email listing all aspects of the changes - it takes a few minutes but might save hours or days of misunderstanding down the line.

 

Never do 30 day payment thing? Really? If you work for Dave you met at the pub then maybe. If you work with a client who has a billing dept then you operate within their framework. Throwing up roadblocks before you even start is a good way to alienate a potential client.

[RyderSK]

Pay on delivery is nice dream with bigger clients but just like Tom correctly said, you're mostly left to follow your client's company finance department and they surely won't accomodate to special needs. It's not like we can change pretty much universal rule.

Net30 is quite fair anyway, we're talking big sums of money so it makes sense to follow pay schedule with them and optimize that, and at least in continental/US understanding it's ok. Now the UK 30 where you get it last day of next month..that's something I always despised but still better then Net90 right ? I have friends who deal Hardware to companies and this is what they have to live with.

 

Deposit and intermittent payments are always ok too, so I am never in hurry to collect the remaining 40-70perc.

[Noise]

Cash flow is very important to a small company so, if you let them take their time to make payment then they will do that. If the matter is brought up at the beginning of the project (I have never experienced alienating a client because of this) then you can arrange for payment as close to the completion of the project as possible. It might not be on the same day that the project is completed but at least you know it has been actioned and is in their next round of payments.

[notamondayfan]

I find it all depends on what size of company you work with, and often we are seen as the little people.

 

I find large companies who have finance departments are 30 days, and rarely pay early. Small - medium companies pay sooner. It's not the larger companies don't want to pay, but their policies and schedule are what dictates when I get paid. I could put payment in 1 day, but it wouldn't make any difference, and I'd only be ill with stress if I tried to get my clients to rigidly stick to a payment date.

 

I only get annoyed when payment is reaching 45 - 60 days, and there's still no date set for payment.

 

As for withholding images, and watermarking them, all you're going to do is piss your client off.

[Tommy L]

Cash flow is very important to a small company so, if you let them take their time to make payment then they will do that. If the matter is brought up at the beginning of the project (I have never experienced alienating a client because of this) then you can arrange for payment as close to the completion of the project as possible. It might not be on the same day that the project is completed but at least you know it has been actioned and is in their next round of payments.

 

Net 30 is fairly standard. To forbid the standard is just weird.

My personal take on it is that I dont care when I get paid, as long as its paid on time. My standard contract is net 30, but if they request 45, 60, 90 days, fine. What do care, as long as it actually arrives when promised. I can plan for that.

The only problem with payment schedules is when they are breached. I can't plan for that.

 

Late payment penalty clause in the contract is a a good stick to beat a late payer with, up front money is good for peace of mind and demonstrates good faith.

 

A request for payment on delivery would not go down well with my clients. They wouldn't take it personally, they would just say "well we cant do that, the billing department wont do it". And I have a good relationship with my clients.

[Noise]

I tried the standard 30 day payment years ago and found it to be detrimental to our cash flow and business so decided to get rid of it. I didn't know how clients would react to our new payment policy but as it turned out when we mentioned it at the outset, it has never been a problem.

 

For first time clients yes, pay on delivery - as they are an unknown quantity - repeat clients are different. If we have a good working relationship then by all means we will get into a payment rhythm which suites both of us.

 

Tom, do you ever scan people with your Artec ?

[M V]

I waited over a year to get paid by a client because I sent him finals before getting paid. It's not common, but a small studio cant afford to spend 2 weeks on a project and then never get paid. One bad apple spoils the bunch. I will not deliver finals without being paid in full. Maybe I lost out on a lot of work because of this policy, but I haven't been screwed since.

[neil poppleton]

We would never be able to work with large companies in the UK if we were to be paid on delivery.

 

The large housebuilders in the UK regularly take 40 - 60 days to pay but if your company has good cashflow predictions its no problem.

 

I agree, payment depends on company size, our small one man band architect clients often pay the same day of invoice received and then take the above example of major housebuilders.

 

Know your client and build into your cashflow and shouldnt be an issue.