Your thoughts on the Age Demographics of Arch Visualizers.

[CliveG]

Without getting all "homoeopathic" on you, I believe that the performance of the eye is subject to 3 factors; the muscles that control focus, the flexibility of the eyeball itself and the brains ability to interpret the information it receives. Two of those are trainable and one is inevitably going to decline with old age but I'll do what I can to stave it off.

 

So I try to exercise the muscles that control the eye to not only keep them working effectively but also to endeavour to keep the flexibility of the eyeball as long as possible and am also trying things like the app "glassesoff" for the brain training side of things. Although that app sounds like complete b^%$%cks so far the results have actually been quite encouraging.

 

I can get glasses any day of course, but I want to do whatever I can to put that off as long as possible. It's not for everyone though, this is just my view on it.

[rogue3d]

 

Burn-out? When I'm working, I'm usually working hard - long hours. Always to strict deadlines. That get's tiresome after a while because the number of times I hit a hysterical deadline only to have someone come back a few days later with changes BEFORE they present my work to the client! It's hard to maintain the dedication to pressure when you know through experience that most of the time it's confected.

.

 

thank you for this. It's probably the thing I hate the most about this line of work. Well, that and the fact that most cases we don't get started on the project until the 11th hour which means it's always a sprint.

[John Dollus]

related industry post very similar to this one. We all have the same issues:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=1259237

[M V]

That article does hit on another subject. Age is seen as experience but also seen as $$ when being hired by a firm. Most arch firms probably realize that they rather have that kid fresh out of school that has mediocre renders and pay him half of what the 40 year old with the mortgage and 2 kids would request.

[RyderSK]

related industry post very similar to this one. We all have the same issues:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=1259237

 

when you are over 35

 

35 ? Even those start to feel left behind ? Interesting enough, the author originally even stated 30, then changed it to 35 to avoid off-topic discussion about particular age. Good thread.

[Scott Schroeder]

I'm glad to know that I am of the appropriate age to yell at you arch viz kids to, "Git off my lawn!"

[philippelamoureux]

in the cgsociety thread, a guy posted this :

 

''Being over 30 isn't old :/

 

Also, I'm not sure about the use of the word relevant here; relevance implies that somehow you've lost your value to the industry and you need to regain it. This doesn't happen when you turn 30, it happens when your work is crap.''

 

He is damn right! Age is just a number.

__________________

[RyderSK]

in the cgsociety thread, a guy posted this :

 

''Being over 30 isn't old :/

 

Also, I'm not sure about the use of the word relevant here; relevance implies that somehow you've lost your value to the industry and you need to regain it. This doesn't happen when you turn 30, it happens when your work is crap.''

 

He is damn right! Age is just a number.

__________________

 

Leigh is woman :- )

 

 

Well, after reading through the whole {cgsociety} thread it's quite clear it's another not-so-clear cut opinion division whether there is some form of ageism (amazing term) inside CGI industry, both camps speaking from personal experience. It's very easy to say age won't matter as long as your skills are superior, but as few outlined, in corporate world (and most CG artists are employed, not entrepreneurs ) that often translates to notion of higher paid position (due to experience), lesser devotion (due to family),etc.

I think general IT industry is good source to draw parallel from, as it matured longer time ago and absolutely showcases age-ism. Only higher tiers of positions (software architects,etc..) are able to rise to senior managerial ranks, while day-by-day coders are dismissed and replaced. They will still find good positions, but it's just not so rosy for them as would be expected.

 

It's definitely not a coincidence that most of happy 'older&skilled gentlemen' are from self-employed crowd, even in this thread. It's always easier to maintain career if you're solely responsible for your own fate. But then again, in such case, longevity hardly depends on industry affairs.

 

Nonetheless, I think this is going to be eventually non-issue in constantly ageing western society.

[Nic H]

generally in arch vis the older artists are more expensive and less flexible. they tend to willfully ignore new technology and have little interest in improving their skills. its not the 1950's anymore and you cant expect to keep on keeping on with the same old thing. its also rare to see older artists pursuing their own work outside of a commercial sphere which to me is where you keep developing your skills.

 

of course a lot of it is to do with families, mortgages, ill health and a realignment of priorities because as we all know work isn't everything....!

 

(im 33 and have been doing arch vis for 12 years now by the way so i also fall into these categories.... )

[Tommy L]

generally in arch vis the older artists are more expensive and less flexible. they tend to willfully ignore new technology and have little interest in improving their skills. its not the 1950's anymore and you cant expect to keep on keeping on with the same old thing. its also rare to see older artists pursuing their own work outside of a commercial sphere which to me is where you keep developing your skills.

 

of course a lot of it is to do with families, mortgages, ill health and a realignment of priorities because as we all know work isn't everything....!

 

(im 33 and have been doing arch vis for 12 years now by the way so i also fall into these categories.... )

 

I disagree with most of your post. Im 37, 15 yrs in arch-vis, 7 yrs self employed.

I dont think older artists are less flexible, maybe in terms of work ethic, but not creatively nor in the sense of adopting new techniques. I think the broader the base of knowledge, the easier it is to apply the general 3d knowledge to different applications.

 

The more experience you gain in a certain field, the faster and more in demand you become (speaking from personal experience of self employment). The lack of 'personal' work tends to come from being so damn busy all the time. The reference to the 1950's is a little odd. I dont see the parallel.

 

I think Juraj has a point about the aging society in the West, but maybe that is just another element that will tip the business balance toward less developed economies with higher birth rates over the last 20 years.

 

I'd also point to a lack of worthy replacements coming along through the American education system. If I cant remember last time I got sent a convincing resume from anyone below the age of 28, then why would people age out of this part of the workforce?

[peterlatrofa]

I think that if ArchVIZ were an industry that offers a wide range of job types, ie. mid-level, senior-level, lead, project manager, then age becomes less of an issue. But I'm not sure if that is the case with this industry. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm gathering that most are either Visualizers(employee), Managers (employee), or a freelancer/studio owners.

 

And I'd say most of us, as we get older, would want to be managers or studio owners. I'm sure there are plenty that would be happy doing Visualization their entire career. And I do believe with more experience and dedication comes better skills and quality of work. They say it takes 10,000 hours of practice to become an expert. So I'd say the advantage goes to the older folks. More expensive, yes, but for good reason.

[Justin Hunt]

if there is no room for the old folks, who is teaching the young ones? Mentoring and passing on your knowledge is as important as learning new skills.

 

Take a look at the Chinese process of becoming a teacher. When a teacher is in collage they are assigned a mentor. Once you have graduated you become a mentor to students, at the same time you get assigned another mentor. This goes on through out your entire teaching career. To become a master teacher requires decades of learning and mentoring.

 

Just because you turn 40 does not mean that you stop learning overnight, or that your years of experience suddenly become useless.

Yes we are more expensive, quite rightly, are you still earning or worth what you were earning when you started out?

 

Years ago I did a stint in a studio that was obsessed with only hiring young, fresh out of school people. Why? because they were cheap and they could exploit them with overly long hours. With only four years working experience I was considered too old and expensive. Needless to say I didn't last long there either.

[Nic H]

It's an observation based on experience and there is a large element of truth to it. Its not really up for discussion nor is it a personal slur on anyone here.

 

The 1950's comment was regarding a job which you get and stay in without moving or improving - a job for life type mentality. You cannot deny that its quite rare to find really skilled older staff (35+) in an artist role as they all either ....

 

a) have their own businesses

b) have moved into management roles

c) are travelling freelancers with a very specific set of skills

 

so there is certainly room for older people in arch vis just perhaps not in a lead artist role within a studio environment. In management and other production roles there is a better fit. It's only natural for this to be the way things work out and its a situation that is the norm in many arch vis studios worldwide.

[CliveG]

This is getting interesting now. I think there are some good points made.

 

In a very broad observation I think the "west" is getting dismissive of the value and potential of their elder population. There is an almost wilful avoidance of what they can offer, not just in the workplace (artistic or otherwise) but in the family and in society in general. I don't just say this because I'm now in my 50's but because I've always preferred having a conversation with these folk who've actually done stuff with their lives rather than someone who just thinks they may know something that everyone else must be interested in.

 

Yep you're right that most of those over a certain age here are probably self employed, I am, and a lot of my customers have never even seen me and would have no idea of my actual age.

 

I can almost guarantee that if I applied for a job in a studio I would get nowhere - regardless of skills and experience. (Not that I'm bothered)

 

And it's just such an obvious necessity for all of us, irrespective of age, that we have to keep learning and developing regardless of age, (I think I've learnt more in the last 3 or 4 years than in the 10 before that.) So to assume that those over 35 are set in their ways and not keeping up is, I think, unfair and sorta BS really.

 

Experience v Arrogance, I know where I'd put my money. If you want to throw another PC factor into the conversation, I'd also employ a disabled over an able bodied applicant with equal skills anyday. They are often far far better assets to a company.

[TomasEsperanza]

I'm 42. I was a professional musician for 19 years, up until 2008. Since then I have completed several CAD courses, attained an BSc in CGI and 3D Animation, and worked as a freelancer with several Arch-viz offices.

 

I currently work from Home as a freelancer primarily getting jobs from an established one-man-band arch-visualiser. He gets more work than he needs. He is also about 42. I go into the office a few times a fortnight to catch up, but it's very flexible.

 

I don't envy the stress he is under to deliver to deadlines and bring in the bread, but he has a family and a house (I'm divorced and my two kids live with their Mum in another country, here in the UK). I made the decision that it is more important for me personally to be happy with my work than to be more money orientated.

 

I sometimes get fed up with a job if it drags on too long, but generally as long as I'm learning, I'm inspired. The experience I gain from each job is tangible, and I'm concurrently building my arsenal of hardware and software, that will facilitate my ability to take jobs directly from clients if I decide too. At present I have no desire to interface with clients, I don't get paid for that and am happy with it. I have the experience and know I can if I need too.

 

My main responsibility to my career is to keep up-to-date and skilled, this is both challenging and inspiring. I don't see my creative hunger and desire to learn dwindling with age, it didn't with my father (an Architect who loved his work and threw himself into it).

 

I worry what will happen if my faculties fail me, but that is a concern for everybody in life. My life experiences (substantial) have taught me to balance my investment in the future with a focus on the present.

 

Incidentally, while doing my degree, the most successful student was also the oldest by a mile, at 52 years old/young! He is currently working in London in the VFX industry and loves his work.

[heni30]

First of all, who is impersonating nicnic!!???

 

(complete sentences? correct punctuation? bullet points? serious logical thought??) i don't think so.

 

To answer your question, the most giant, huge factor that has come into play is the internet. but you will have to be a freelancer to stretch your career out. I've never met half my clients; so your demeanor, your open-mindedness, your curiosity, your sense of humor will determine how your aged-ness is percieved.

 

I see people in their 40s who are so set in their ways that they come across as being in their 60s.

 

So basically it's your attitude that will play a big part in how long you stay active in the field.

 

Rem is 70; Wright was in his 80s when he did the Guggenheim, Degas had brushes tied to his hands to keep on painting towards the end of his life.

Edited March 7, 2015 by heni30