urgent deadline fee structure

[artmaknev]

So I had this one very urgent renderings request, 3 renderings in 5 days, the pay was good, everybody happy with final result. The very next day,client sends me revisions / comments, like its the usual update...

 

So foolishly, I comply and just fix the comments, thinking what the heck its new client, the pay was good so let me fix those comments and be done with it. That was it, I heard the project was put on hold, so they probably expect me to fix more comments for free later on.

 

Anyway, they have now new project, same crazy deadline, 5 days for 3 renderings. What should I do? Give them the fixed price again for the renderings (I gave them fixed fee price last time) but I am almost positive that this time they will have more comments after final renderings, so for them its just like another update, like its nothing wrong by saying, final deadline is the 15th, and then just send bunch of comments like it wasn't final!

 

This is a bit unusual situation for me, I usually get a request with certain deadline and the client respects that deadline, of-course there might be some minor comments after final for color correction and such, sometimes a bit later and I charge extra (daily rate).

 

But this client, kind of fooled me to think that final is final, and then just come back like nothing was final with another round of design / furniture revisions, and now I have no clue when is the actual deadline.

 

How to deal with such requests??

Edited March 16, 2015 by artmaknev

[frog_a_lot]

Just quote it same as any other job, at a slightly higher price. Say 10% or whatever.

In your quote say something along the lines of.. "+10% for tight deadline"

 

This way they will have second thoughts about demanding quick turn around when they know it is not actually needed.

[artmaknev]

I did charge more, and they agreed. So typically I give 3 revisions per view in my contract, they went thru all those 3 revisions in the span of 5 days, then completely ignored my contract sent another round of revisions after the final. I know I should've reminded them about the extra fee, but since it was such a fast project with good pay, I just let it go and did those 4th round of revisions (quite a lot of work actually) with no extra charge, and keep in mind those were final renderings, so I had to revise everything again in highest quality...

 

So now, same client, same crazy deadline, and I feel the same will happen, they will make me work on final quality rendering and then make a ton of design revisions after they see the final... but this time I will remind them about the extra fee and not sure they will like that, because they think I will provide same deal as with previous project.

[frog_a_lot]

You just need to make a decision.. is it worth it.

If the effort is worth what they are paying then I guess you need to suck it up and just deal with it.

 

Otherwise simple explain to them the situation.. explain to them that more revisions will cost an extra fee.. That you will not proceed until that fee has been agreed to and signed off. Be straight up and firm with them.

Now this may hurt your relationship and you may lose them as a client, but if they are taking advantage of you then that isn't a great loss.

 

That is where you need to weight up how much they mean as a client.

Clients will always try and push the limits and get as much work as cheaply as possible, it needs to be nipped in the butt asap.

[harryhirsch]

''So foolishly, I comply and just fix the comments'' yep that was the mistake...the client will expect the same treatment again. Make it clear that last time was a special treat for him. Even for this ''5 day Projects'' u should have something like a contract or an action plan that states clearly that there is no revison after the clients ''yes thats it''.

5 days seems tough for u (alone) but it is nothing unusual here in Europe. And the client wont care if u have staff or not.

''what should I do? Give them the fixed price again for the renderings''

yes, and make clear that deadline is deadline, he wants changes after that? fine, charge the hours. Tell him that you have other projects lined up after the agreed deadline, other projects that u have to postpone for him.

[RyderSK]

Client who willfully ignores agreed conditions and artist who lets it slide for first time because agreed pay was already lucrative, is a mistake I had managed to do in almost every second project for past year...

The reminder to get back on track and repay new debts is that much harder to ask for the longer it takes you to act.

 

And the solution is so simple yet not that easy to follow (for me) : Never let a single thing slide, communicate the very first moment things don't abide to agreed conditions.

 

I even have a clause in contract requesting cost&deadline renegotiation if client wishes to alter conditions, and every client I ever had full-filled it without single complaint. The problem was always only in me, in my social naivety I always expect people to act in mutually fair manner. And everyone does...once you assertively remind them to do.

I come from country where it's morally imperative to be selfish yet I always give everyone benefit of doubt by default, never learning my cynical lesson.

 

Regarding this:

 

Now this may hurt your relationship and you may lose them as a client, but if they are taking advantage of you then that isn't a great loss.

 

That actually never happened in my case. It's something I always presume would happen, and I frequently go over assertive territory to outright voicing my concern in mildly aggressive/dictating manner, and the results is very opposite. Each and everyone apologized, and offered compensation on top of renegotiated costs. But of course, none of that would be necessary if I wasn't letting things slide in first place. I guess everyone simply tries some form of salami method and waits how far he can get away. Not necessarily with ulterior motives, but rather acting in his own self interest, or out of ignorance.

Edited March 16, 2015 by RyderSK

[TomasEsperanza]

Yes, this does seem to be a common situation that poses a dilemma for freelancers. I agree, one must simply learn to be diligent with regards to "client management". It is surely the fear of losing work that troubles people (which is understandable) but without pushing the boundaries ourselves, we won't establish a work pay equilibrium (being good for us as well as the client).

 

I see this from the perspective of someone who is a freelancer employed by a freelancer.

[artmaknev]

After a few back and forth emails with the client, I ended up declining this project, it wasn't easy the money was good but the deadline is insanity. If I had 2-3 more freelancers or employees then maybe I could've done it, the client just had hard time understanding my decision. The complexity of the project is not extremely hard but from my past experience with this client, they love to change entire design of the interior, replace almost every single furniture piece, and by the way, this is all custom furniture they don't let you add stuff from your library (most US clients are like that, its different from European renderings where you can just fill up the space with furniture of your choice). So overall, about 60 pieces of custom furniture to model, which would change during every revisions... custom kitchen design, custom accessories, and overall design of the lounge and restaurant will also change during every revision... And to make it even more painful, they included inspiration images of some of DBOX renderings (WE WANT IT LIKE THIS!!), Seriously ?!?!

 

Anyway, I might have lost that client and good pay, but I don't regret it.

 

Thanks for the advice guys, I must definitely modify my contract, what I tried to do is be nice to clients, my contract is only 1 page for ease of use... but being too nice is a business killer.

[notamondayfan]

I simply never render a final image until the last draft has been approved and signed off. Any changes which require a re-render after the final image has been rendered will generally incur charges. I always make this clear when sending drafts.

 

Very minor changes (10 mins or so) such as colour tweaks I may just do to keep the peace.

 

I think you just need to explain the time and cost implications to your client. You might find they are more than happy to pay for extra revisions.

[Guest ihabkalache]

Guys I came in to the forum after a long time of absence because I am dealing with the same exact thing. Are they in cahoots? Do they mean to put us out of business? If we run under who is going to work nights and weekends for them?

[Stan Zaslavsky]

Hi there,

 

It's only my 2c worth - but we've broken down most of the process into lots of milestones. The timeframe of 3 renders in 5 days is tight, but not impossible, however did you ever ask based on the previous experience if there is any room in the timeframe?

 

Assuming that clients know what they want with vague specifications at the outset is very dangerous Most of the time - they have an idea of what they'd like, but complete lack of concern for your (and our) time and effort investment in the process and what it takes.

 

I wouldn't necessarily have passed on the client - just would be a lot tighter with locking them into a process if that is possible.

[Guest ihabkalache]

Assuming that clients know what they want with vague specifications at the outset is very dangerous Most of the time - they have an idea of what they'd like, but complete lack of concern for your (and our) time and effort investment in the process and what it takes.

 

story of my life

[Stan Zaslavsky]

then its a really important lesson to learn at the outset and not repeat the same mistake again and again.

 

if they have vague specifications - stop work until those specifications are finalised. worst thing we can do is render out an image and then the client has a design change and we have to go back to the start.

[M V]

3 Revisions, then additional services paid hourly - thats what your contract should say and stick to it. If you let them get work for free they will walk all over that. Once they realize they are paying for it, the changes will probably end, or if not, well at least you are being paid for your time.

 

I think sometimes we forget that at the top of this food chain is some developer who thinks in millions and not dollars. We should never undermine ourselves or what the worth of what we do is.

 

As they said in Goodfellas, "F*#$ you, pay me!"

[gulsher1]

If I had 2-3 more freelancers or employees then maybe I could've done it, the client just had hard time understanding my decision. The complexity of the project is not extremely hard but from my past experience with this client, they love to change entire design of the interior, replace almost every single furniture piece, and by the way, this is all custom furniture they don't let you add stuff from your library (most US clients are like that, its different from European renderings where you can just fill up the space with furniture of your choice). So overall, about 60 pieces of custom furniture to model, which would change during every revisions... custom kitchen design, custom accessories, and overall design of the lounge and restaurant will also change during every revision... And to make it even more painful, they included inspiration images of some of DBOX renderings (WE WANT IT LIKE THIS!!), Seriously ?!?!???? http://www.e-six-sigma.com/