New AU$4000 WS build - facing IT demons

[peterletten]

Hi Guys,

 

First up - thanks for such a rich and generous community. This forum has been my go-to amongst the 20 or so I've added to my bookmarks bar in the last 2 weeks.

 

Until 2 weeks ago I have been chronically IT adverse. I had only a vague knowledge of what the various parts did in my machine. An impressive feat given my 15 years in the industry. Taking on a new employee, and as a result speccing up a new machine and setting up a basic network has forced me to face my demons. So I've literally spent much of the last 2 weeks trawling through forums, comparison sites, benchmarks, naming conventions, wikis etc and slowly but surely penetrating the jargon. I now have a spreadsheet with 5 pages of detailed info, including lots of copy and pasted blurbs from people like Dimitris Tolios, Juraj Talcik, Numerobis and others. (So thanks again).

 

I say all this because I hope to demonstrate that I've tried to the best of my ability to "do my homework". Now I just feel like I'm out of time and can't afford to prolong this decision any more. I need to get back to earning money!

 

Network

So - I'm following the advice of many, with a router to managed 8 port HP Gigabit switch (with plans to LA) to NAS DS1515+ with Cat6 cables. NAS will probably be RAID 6, and hold all project files and Library assets - and will service the 2 workstations.

 

That was the easyish part. Next up:

 

The Workstation

I've tried to navigate the arguments that keep coming up - Quadro vs GTX, DDR3 vs DDR4, i7 v sXeon, cores vs processing speed etc.

And this is where I'm at, my budget is around AU$4000:

 

i7-5930K - best performance in my budget

MOBO: ASUS X99-A (potentially to buy an additional NIC if I want to LA between my WS and Switch in the future) -

64GB RAM (I use a lot of After Effects and this devours my RAM). I'm pretty limited here by my supplier - theres two choices:

4 x Kingston 16GB DDR4 ECC Registered 2133MHz CL15 w/Parity 288-Pin

8 x Apacer 8G (1x8GB) DDR4 2133MHz DIMM 15-15-15 1.2V

SSD: 2 x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB. One for OS and Programs, other for Media cache/scratch disc and potentially current project files

GPU: Asus Strix GTX980 4GB

 

All other parts I'll get mid-high end, PSU, Cooling, Case etc

 

Queries:

 

Is this a solid build? Any glaring errors?

 

Re my limited RAM options : I've been told that its better to use fewer slots where possible for speed - which would suggest the Kingstons. But also seem to remember reading that ECC isn't really targeted to our needs. But am I right in thinking that Kingston is a far superior brand to Apacer? Given my very limited choice - Kingstons the go?

 

 

Thanks guys - I'd really appreciate any feedback. I'm hoping to put in the final order in the next 24/48hrs so hopefully I'll get some words of wisdom before then!

[Amen]

Hi,

 

I think you have to go for another mainboard for ECC ram. The ASRock X99 WS would work. The rest looks good.

The ASRock X99 WS even has two GB Lan ports.

 

I would go for the 4 x 16 gb ram.

 

If you go for a Qnap Nas, you install a virtual machine on it for your license server or backburner manager... the ones around 700 € are powerful enough. It is possible with Synology, but not out of the box.

 

Bye,

 

Jan

[Nikolaos M]

Some simple starting thoughts by me:

 

1. Asus X99-A is a fine motherboard but I don't think it supports ECC RAM. For ECC compatible mobos you should see WS editions of X99 (Asus or Asrock), or server motherboards with C612 chipset (z10, X10 etc).

2. If you stay with Asus X99-A, then 8x8gb RAM is the only configuration that can give you a total of 64gb of RAM. This is the upper limit in these motherboards.

3. Why the 5930K? It costs 200$ more than the 5820K and the only difference between them is the amount of PCIe lanes (40 for 5930K vs 28 for 5820K). As long as you are not interested in a multi-gpu setup (ex. 3-4 cards for rendering purposes), the 5820K would be the most logical choice. 5930K will add cost with no significant gains.

4. For the same reasons, why the gtx 980? Of course, you haven't mentioned the software you are interested in, but in general, CG programs that people int this forum usually work with, run satisfactorily with a gtx 970 or a gtx 750Ti when the budget is tight. 970 is 60-70% cheaper and only 10-20% slower compared to the 980.

 

Other guys here in the forums will help you more, since they have a bigger experience and knowledge, but it 'd be good to mention exactly what are your interests in CG, i.e. the programs you're using, the rendering machines you prefer etc. With a budget of AU$4000 you could choose better parts for your built, depending on the use (ex. a 5960X could fit inside your budget).

Edited March 23, 2015 by nikolaosm

[peterletten]

Hi Jan and Nikolaos,

 

Thanks for the quick response. So thats very good to know that my motherboard and RAM arent compatible! Will def look into that.

 

Yes Nikolaos, thats a very good point - would help if I clarified what I'm using. This machine is primarily a workhorse but being a tiny company of 2 people, will also be doing a lot of rendering. Zero gaming. Main software is 3ds max 2014, VRay 3, VRay RT, After Effects & Photoshop.

I often do my initial composite (5k 32 Bit images) in After Effects which is very RAM heavy - hence the desire for 64GB of the stuff. I use RT for exploring lighting setups but would like to get much snappier response than my current machine with a Geforce GTX 660Ti - 2Gb.

 

Jan, I'll also look into a QNap NAS. My supplier stocks EonNAS - does anyone have anything to say about them?

And while on the topic, NAS vs SAN? He was suggesting that SAN would be better for my purposes "this is due to the CPU only working on storage in a SAN while on a NAS you need a more powerful CPU to increase throughput." Tbh it was another can of worms I didnt want to get into and had seen a lot of positive comments here about Synology NAS so my thinking was play it safe and go with that. Anyone have any input on this?

 

Nikolaos - re point3. 5930k vs 5820k - I beleive my thinking was that the $200 extra might be worth it for the additional 0.2 GHz single core speed... But looking at this again, it does seem pretty steep for such a minimal gain.

 

Re point 4, GTX 980 vs 970 - again it came down to perfromace, but (again) perhaps you're right re whether its worth $250 for such small gains.

 

And you're saying save $450 on the above two points and rather put that into the 5960X? Even though its clocked at 3GHz base? Its got a pretty dismal write up on userbenchmark.com: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Intel-Core-i7-5960X/Rating/2580

 

Thanks guys - really appreciate your input.

[numerobis]

To support ECC you need a Xeon. There is still no option for 16GB modules combined with i7's.

 

Regarding 5820K vs 5930K... yes, unless you need the additional PCIe lanes the 5930K would give you nothing. You should be able to simply increase the Turbo-multipliers to the same values as the 5930K keeping everything at auto settings - just two simple clicks for the additional MHz.

[peterletten]

So Numerobis, it sounds like I'm speccing things the wrong way round. I know I want 64GB RAM. I don't think there's any need for me to be chasing after ECC. So perhaps I should select my RAM first and work back from there? Potentially with 8x8GB DDR3 sticks? As they're cheaper with currently not much noticeable performance difference to DDR4.

I've just belatedly stumbled upon some pretty useful looking sites (logical increment.com, lifehacker) relating to how to go about choosing parts so I might go back to the drawing board a bit and then come back to you guys. Thanks.

[RyderSK]

I agree with guys above. Nothing to add :- )

 

You have to think in terms of possible overclock, which is very similar between all the models, of course, the more cores, the more will be power draw and heat output, but on average, you can get average chip of all 3 (5820k/5930k/5960X) to 4.4GHz for stable CGI work with high-end cooler.

 

So if you maximize the potential of such CPU, you can leverage that additional multithreaded performance for rendering.

Regarding poor "user" feedback...that is bit non-issue. The CPU isn't anymore powerful in regular tasks and gaming, the most common PC hardware audience for past 10 years, while costing what is "no-go" price to such crowd. If you gave 2000 euro Xeon cpu to your average Call of Duty player he would also complain and rate it poorly. It's kind of to be expected.

It's excellent CPU, for situation where money is less issue then absolute single-box performance.

 

As was said, ECC can't be fitted into Asus-A and other non-Xeon workstation, with exception of Asus-WS boards, which are in-between and can fit both single Xeon (from 2P range (like E5-26xx), but that would be strange choice for most occasions. Otherwise 1P Xeons (E5-16xx) can still be fit into regular boards as well. But the WS range are rather expensive, massive boards, suitable if you're after quad-GPU setup and roughly 10 HDDs ;- )

I don't think cheaper Apacer would make problem. I wouldn't be twice happy about it from vanity mind point, but the chance you will ever notice difference is nimble.

 

DDR3 sticks? As they're cheaper with currently not much noticeable performance difference to DDR4.

 

You can't choose between DDR3 and DDR4 on same workstation. 1150 (Haswell like 4790k) support only DDR3 and 2011-3 (Haswell-E, like 5820k support only DDR4).

If you need 64GB ram, the only solution today is 8x8GB. There is not yet any publicly available 16GB Non-ECC module sticks. I don't understand the theory you write in beginning about fewer modules for speed. You buy fewer modules only when you need to upgrade later and don't have the budget to populate slots right away. I.e, you buy only 4x8GB instead of 8x4GB, so you can always buy additional 4x8GB later and have full 8x8GB.

 

5820/5930 is same CPU with different PCI lanes, you will overclock/turbo-boost it anyway. This is very simple, one-click thing in today's PCs. Absolutely no reason why to avoid it.

 

970 if you're not primarily GPU oriented. If you are, then single 980with4GB ram wouldn't be enough anyway.

 

The money you save on 970/5820k can be spent on better cooling, better PSU (gold/platinum 80+, reputable brand), both very important assets for stable, silent Workstation. I rate that above compared to simple performance increase.

 

Not sure about the 2x256GB SSD. 256 is still enough for OS and software, but the other is quite redundant since you won't fit anything on it. Either just buy single 256, or single 512. If budget allows, I would be inclined to go single 512 directly, it's cheap enough today.

Edited March 23, 2015 by RyderSK

[numerobis]

Potentially with 8x8GB DDR3 sticks? As they're cheaper with currently not much noticeable performance difference to DDR4.

As Juraj already said, Haswell-E/socket 2011-3 works only with DDR4.

To be save concerning RAM compatibility you could check the support pages of the selected mainboard - usually they have only a small amount of RAM kits listed, but maybe it fits. But generally there should be no problems. I only had problems with one kit from G-Skill in the last maybe 20 years that didn't work with one specific X58 board. Maybe you have to increase the voltages of the memory controller a bit to get the 8 sticks working properly (or use slightly lower timings). I normally buy kingston or corsair, but with the current DDR4 prices i would take Crucial i think. Crucial is Micron, so you're buying directly from the chip manufacturer. Should be no problem.

Edited March 23, 2015 by numerobis

[peterletten]

Alright guys, following a (slightly desperate) plea to my supplier, I asked him to spec me up a machine. This was my brief:

 

Must have:

• GTX970 4GB
  
• 64Gb RAM - not too fussed whether this is DDR3 or 4.
  
• CPU: 6 cores, overclockable, base around 3.3 GHz - something along the lines of the 5820K
  
• Mobo - whatever works!
  

 

He's come back with 2 options - both clocking in at a hefty 5k +:

 

Option 1, Xeon E51650:

4 x Kingston 16GB DDR4 ECC Registered 2133MHz CL1 336x4 = 1344

Intel 6-Core Xeon E5-1650V3 3.5GHz, 15MB Cache, 1 740

ASUS X99-E WS MB, Socket 2011-3, Intel X99, 8x DD 685

Galax GF GTX 970-4GD5 HOF. PCI-E3.0. 4GB 256-bit 490

1 x Plextor SSD M6e M.2 PCIe 2280 256Gb 309

1 x Corsair 240GB Neutron XT Series SATA III MLC 7mm I 194 (Mobo cant support 2 Plextors)

Corsair Obsidian Series 450D Black High Airflow Mid-T 159

1000W "Antec" High Current PRO" 80PLUS Platinum 286

Corsair Hydro Series H110 Liquid CPU Cooler - Move t 147

 

And apparently this can be safely Turboboosted to 3.8GHz without voiding any warranties.

 

 

Or, Option 2, i7 5930K

Intel i7-5930K Core i7 CPU, Six Core 3.50 GHz, 15MB 809

2 x Apacer 32GB (4x8GB) DDR4 2800MHz Commando O 1694

2 x Plextor SSD M6e M.2 PCIe 2280 256Gb 618

 

All other parts the same.

 

With OS, build, warranty etc comes to approx AU$5000, which is 1k more than I was originally thinking, but at this stage, I'd rather get a great, good value machine and get back to earning money to pay for it...

 

NB.

• i7-5820K vs 5930K - he was quite against the 5820K for a few reasons that I'm afraid went over my head. One of his points was that for a build of this price its a far inferior CPU to the 5930K... the 5930K operates at a lower temp? and has better grade silicon? so you can expect the 5930K to last a lot longer... Which he felt was important for such a high spec machine which will hopefully stay useable for the next 4+ years.
  
• Overclocking - He was very wary of OC, as he said its easy enough to setup (2 clicks) but you need to be really careful how its going to effect all the other components. And if you dont know what you're doing (thats me), it can be very risky.
  

 

So... what are your thoughts??

 

Thanks again for all your input - really appreciated.

Edited March 24, 2015 by peterletten

[deadkaiser]

yer I would just ignore your IT specialist..... BUT

1. Getting IT guy in AU to do anything is pricey if your not going to throw it together expect a large Price tag - ( check PCcasegear and Mwave- Both offer i think $100 assembly and are extremely reliable)

 

2. Getting other people to OC you PC in Au is even more expensive guess they have to make a living somehow - but if your doing a small OC its in general extremely easy don't be intimidated. If the price difference is not worth 1-3h of your time get the more expensive processor.

 

3. For any large OC say 4.7ghz-5ghz sure you can open up a bit of a can of worms but if 4.4 is as easy as people say I would not worry about it.

 

4. Its really quite hard to destroy a CPU these days OCing unless you force it to do ridicules things the protection and warnings on most MB and CPU makes it impossible to stuff up........ unless your colour bind those reds and greens

 

5. Lower temp - What BS maybe once OC they will have similar temps not that temps are really a problem these days http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/Core_i7-5960X_5930K_5820K_Comparison/6.html

 

Better grade silicon - Complete BS - I don't have any proof for you but I wouldn't believe it for a second - Maybe he gets a good commission on the 5930k

 

Other wise, PSU 1000w is a bit much 800-700w should be plenty and I personly would never recommend Antec - Try Corsair or Seasonic

SSD's I like Samsung these days and i personally world not bother With M2 (But I know little about it) From a Price to performance point larger SSD are getting quite cheap don't bother with two just get one big one!

 

As for OC warranty in general Intel rarely refuses to replace a cpu due to OCing damage (primarily because it quite hard to tell) But for ease of mind or if you want to see it you can reach 10Ghz get one of these http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/catalogsearch/result/?q=5820k

for $25 Intel will replace your CPU after you set it on fire..... they have that much faith in your OC that they only want $25 - btw not sure how long this last think its just the usual warranty period!

 

Anyway i'm sure someone has already said all of this by now i'm just a really slow type! GL mate

[deadkaiser]

One last thing if you really want it to last 4 years make sure you get a decent MB warranty they always seem to go first from what i've seen.... Maybe everyone I know is just unlucky.... or maybe its because we all bought Asus MB's

[stanleybrusse]

Hi Pete!

 

Just saw your email so I though I would pop by and tell you what I thought.

What has been stated above is all true.

I'm not sure if you boosted your workflow a lot since we worked together but if not, a GTX970 should be enough.

I personally had a 780Ti and own multiple 970 now for RT GPU and it all works great and no visual difference in max viewport.

For handling really heavy stuff, no GTX is up to the task, even the Titan (we bought one specially to try out) and only the quadro was up to the task. But I'm just guessing this should not be any close to what you have to handle.

 

As for rendering power and specs, it's a hard call, as once you add ram, the line starts to be blurry in getting few big boys or a lot of smalls one.

 

But for you now, this is a setup I just did that could fit you well :

 

This is the site I'm using for pro IT, so Ex VAT and in euro.

2650€ is about AU$3700, so this should fit right into your budget.

 

I went with pretty much the same components as what has been discussed before.

For SSD, don't even think about it, it's way way better to have a "small" 256 Gb for OS and progs only, and a large one for P drive, trust me on this.

As for archiving, as NAS or a local 6 To drive should do the trick (that's what I've got here).

 

If you can afford a bit more, then it depends on what your exact workflow is :

* If your using CPU only (rendering, RT) then you might want to push to the 5960x and add another 700$ to get 1/4 power more.

* If your using RT GPU, then you might want to go for more CGs and free up at least the one with the displays. Let the other render out. The PCI lanes are not that important as you will not max them out anyways. (Even if on paper it says so, trust me I did test on the ground here and you will be fine. I can elaborate more but that's for another post, or CF Vray's forum in RT GPU part for those who are curious)

 

Hope this helped,

 

Stan

[RyderSK]

I'd rather get a great, good value machine

 

Then you might as well just start by ignoring his advice.

 

The only practical difference between 5820k and 5930k is 28 vs 40 PCI-Lanes. The only benefit of 40 lanes is to run 16x/8x/8x/ Tri-SLI or 16x/8x/8x/8x Quad-SLI GPU setup for gaming and... gaming only. Not that gamers need 5930k to start with..

The rest of the stuff he's making up about longevity, better silicon grade and....

 

You don't need 1000W PSU for either build. You don't even need 650W actually, but people buy 650-750 in case of future upgrade that might never come. Chances are, you won't be clocking both CPU and GPU at same time for 100perc. power draw, so you will never even go over 500W.

 

Stop the 2x256GB. The second 256 is obsolete, you won't fit anything on it. Either make it bigger, and run small+ big, or run single big. But not two smalls.

You don't need PRO version for file storage. You don't really need it for system either but it's that type of thing you just might as well have if you have the money. If you're after reasonable budget, then swap any PRO to EVO version. More capacity, is better then less, but slightly faster. The difference is, negligible.

 

Don't buy fancy gaming memory sticks as your friend above suggest. Nothing is more stupid than already overpriced DDR4 memory, but paying additional 300 euro for zero (yes, big.. zero) performance increase and zero (also..no benefit at all) for temperatures just so you can two times in life look at really stupidly looking and redundant memory coolers with highschool grade art-course graphic stickers. I would pass. Buy as Numerobis correctly suggested, Crucial. The cheapest option there is. Same performance, same temperature, 1/3 of price less. Anything to argue ?

 

I am ok with Corsair HX, depending on which (the one your friend suggest is built by ChannelWell, a high-end OEM maker, the lower wattage are by Seasonic, they are slightly better). Both HX and AX (almost completely made by Seasonic) are very high-end, pricey PSUs, but if I were to choose between I would go for AX, it runs more silent and is slightly better design. But I would actually just go to Seasonic directly :- ) Though there are many other good choices and brands now (BeQuite, Goldflower,etc..).

 

With good case, and correct airflow, no, there are almost no risks with running overclock unless you get bad chip (it's lottery), which you try to run with too high voltages. Even than, all you get is instability, which wouldn't let you work anyway, it's not like you will melt something today. Your PC will just shutdown. That's all there is...

You don't need to run it anyway, the turbo-boost might suit you just as well.

 

I can't even remember when I warrantied something over the past 5 years... (with exception of faulty runs of some early-day SSDs, but those days are gone) and run tons of hardware.

 

 

Are the prices in AU so high for HW ? Could be, I have no idea.

[stanleybrusse]

Juraj is right,

No need to go for expensive hardware.

I just took all the cheapest that are listed on the site that fits the marks.

* SSD Pro : I own Evos here, and they work great, go for them if you have a chance.

* DDR4 : I just listed the cheapest available on the site

* PSU : again I listed the cheapest available on the site that is as least Platinum. I went with corsair as I like that brand.

 

Basically, just go for all the cheapest for what you find that fits the marks. If it fails, just send it back and get a new one.

HW is going so quickly today (it doesn't last 10 years like a screwdriver) after 2 year max 3 you will want to change anyways.

Plus, if you add a couple of nodes in few months, you will have some spare parts you can swap quickly in case you have any failure.

 

Stan

[numerobis]

i would also say that a 500/512GB SSD would be the better choice. System + programs + ~20%= ~100-120GB max. So what would you do with the other 120GB?

Using a 500/512GB SSD you can make two partitions. Maybe 120GB for the sys and the rest as second partition for your data.

 

then you might want to push to the 5960x and add another 700$ to get 1/4 power more.

1/3 (if you run them at the same clock speed)

 

concerning PSUs

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-psu-brands,3762-5.html

Edited March 24, 2015 by numerobis

[stanleybrusse]

For our pipeline and the soft we are using, 120Gb is too small, 256 is good. Personally I oscillate between 20-40 Gb free space.

If it was for a render-node I would suggest even 60 could be ok, but for our workstations, not.

 

Your right about the 1/3, wrong typo

Wrote the whole thing a bit in a hurry actually as I'm quite busy

 

Cheers

[RyderSK]

Maybe 120GB for the sys and the rest as second partition for your data.

 

 

No, that really doesn't work in practice for most, and surely not for me. I am fairly minimalist in software use, I keep basically just 3dsMax, PS, AE, few plugins, standard fare for 3D guy on my 256GB system SSD. I did so for past 3 years. I am always within less than 60GB free.

 

All the software keep a lot of cached and temporary files which they continously create. Even (3dsMax) Autosave backup folder will eat 10+ GB if it has to have some meaning.

SSD keep lower performance when you max out their capacity.

You need to have a peace of mind that you're not running out of space anytime.

PS and AE projects use huge amount of temporary files while they run (up to 40GB+ easily) depending on complexity and resolution of your project. You can keep their scratch disk out of system one, but then you loose the benefit of speed, and why even do so ?

 

It's 120GB for the first 2 weeks you installed Windows.

 

Partitions ? In 2015 ?

[stanleybrusse]

Yep I agree, that's why I said 256 for OS and 1Tb for data as we work with project folder that are on it. So autoback and saves are on that 1Tb SSD drive.

Space issue is really not what you'd like, specially in rush times, and the price difference is definitely worth it.

[peterletten]

To be honest - the long life expectancy is a path my IT guy was leading me down.

But theres a fair chance I'll be moving to Montreal in 2-3 years so not sure why I allowed myself to get guided down that route....!

 

So basing it on Stans spec, but downgrading on some components as Juraj suggested, (which Stan also agrees with ) and trying to comply with what my supplier has in stock, this is where I'm at:

 

Intel i7-5820K

ASRock X99-EXTREME4

Apacer 32GB (4x8GB) DDR4 2400MHz Commando Overclocking

Corsair Hydro Series H90 140mm High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler,

760W "Corsair" AX760 100% Modular ATX Power Supply, 80 PLUS Platinum

Corsair Carbide Series 200R Compact ATX Case - (Juraj - does this qualify as a 'good' case? Or does something bigger = better cooling and performance?)

 

2 final queries and then I can put this puppy to rest:

 

SSD:

I'll go 256 and then either 512/1TB.

Alas - I dont think my suppliers selection is crash hot. Any recommendations on these brands for SSDs: Intel, Corsair, Apacer, Galaxy, Asus, ARam? Intel good but comparatively slow?

Looking at benchmarks - its prob worth getting Samsung 850 EVOs from an independant supplier?

 

GPU:

Gigabyte GTX970 GV-N970G1 GAMING-4GD/ 4GB GDDR5 256-bit/ 1178 & 1329 MHz/ DVI-I/ DVI-D/ HDMI / Display Port x 3 / PCB form ATX

vs

Gigabyte GTX970 GV-N970WF3OC-4GD / 4GB GDDR5 256-bit, 1114/1253 MHz / 16 x PCI-E 3.0 / Dual-link DVI-I / DVI-D / 3 x DisplayPort / 1 x HDMI

"GAMING" version is $30 more expensive but not sure what the pracitcal implications are?

 

 

All up, with OS build, etc - this comes to a much more respectable AU$3600 ex. (2k less than previous!!)

Yup Juraq, everything is expensive in Australia. 6 euros for a beer, 1700 euros per month for rent... Good price on koalas though.

 

Oh and Juraj, your comment: "You can keep their (PS & AE) scratch disk out of system one, but then you loose the benefit of speed, and why even do so ?"

So are you saying its better to keep media cache/scratch disk on system drive? Why is it slower to be reading/writing to a seperate SDD?

 

Thanks again guys. Really appreciate everyones input.

[RyderSK]

It's not any slower if you output it to other SSD also connected directly through SataIII/mSata/PCI-Express just that it's bit uncommon to have second large disk to be also SSD on workstation.

I personally, never even had second disk on workstation since I started. I knew I would eventually use fileserver anyway, for others to access same file. But if you're purely freelancer, then yes, second large SSD on workstation is the same.

 

Almost any SSD right now on market released in last year and half is pretty good. But since Samsung offers such a good value/performance and is basically absolute market leader right now, there is little reason to go with something else. It used to be that Intel had best performance and reliability, Crucial offered great value when it came with M4,etc.. but nowadays, if you want good value, you go with EVO, if absolute performance, PRO.

 

"Gaming/Ultra/Special Edition/Arctarctic madness/Idunnowhat/etc..." version is higher clocked from factory as you see on clocks difference. Makes jackshit difference altogether in every CGI stuff you will use. Would improve your Battlefield FPS from 60 to 62.

When I personally choose GPUs, I go with the one that happens to be most silent according to reviews. The constant buzzing of small fans can get annoying if you're on headphones with blasting Battlefield score :- )

But the Gigabyte 3-fan design is the one most silent right now, and has been for past years with exception of custom water loop, but that's different league of sorts. Go with the cheaper option.

 

Carbide is good looking, great value case. I have nothing against. I do personally use and suggest FractalDesign R5, which is much newer, slightly more expensive, even bit more minimal looking (it's pure blackbox, big plus in my books), a very silent one.

 

Regarding the life-expectancy. You're not sacrificing anything. Most components do actually last those 4-5 years, and if something fails, it does so generally quite early due to faulty state from factory, and gets replaced within even the shorted warranty. If you would be too concerned about this, HW vendors know about it and offer bit ubiquitous "army grade" :- D components which are slightly more expensive (just tad bit), offer little bit less features generally, and often come with 5+ years warranty by default. But no really, it's rather gimmick that offers trendy styling and perhaps peace of mind to niche crowd.

Have a look at "TUF" series from Asus for example.

[peterletten]

Thanks Juraj,

As of a few weeks ago I'm no longer "purely freelancer" - theres going to be 2 of us accessing a NAS. My thought was use the 2nd 256GB for media cache/scratch and certain project files - for example large PSD files, exrs for when I'm doing 5k stills in AE. Presumably I'll get much better speed if I'm loading multiple (10-15) 32bit exrs from a local SSD?

And the thought was that these 'special' files/folders would be synced with the NAS - so my employee can also access them. And even without the project files issue - I seem to remember reading in lots of places that its a good idea to keep media cache/scratch seperate to System drive. Do you know the line of reasoning behind this? Is it just quicker because you're dividing up the workload between drives?

 

I think Stan likes the 1TB SSD local because he IS working as a solo freelancer... and I believe he also works on some fairly huge cityscape style project files. Is this right Stan?

 

Thanks for clarifying the GPU querie. I am absolutely not a gamer, dont have enough hours in the day as it is - so cheaper version it is.

And yeah - I'll go the 850 EVOs route and just have to source them from a different supplier.

 

...and while I have the attention of some experts - can anyone point me in the direction of some good sites/discussions regarding NAS?

Ie QNAP vs Synology vs others. The main considerations when buying? My IT guy was espousing the benefits of deduplication of their EonNAS, which for example will get you 10 increments of a 1Gb PS file for only 1.5Gb storage used. Which sounds awesome! But maybe dedup is something all decent NAS systems have? I was about to push buy on the Synology DS1515+. 5 bays, expandable, supports LA. Any reasons to look elsewhere? Synology certainly seems to be the most frequently mentioned on this forum.... I'm sure there has to be some previous healthy discussions on this topic but the forum search function isnt great - all I can find are from 2013. Thanks.

[RyderSK]

I don't know, your take. I fed my fileserver (former i7 2600k) with two 1TB 840EVO disks (no raid), one for active projects, one for assets. I still have DS213+ as backup solution, I used that formerly. I have no issue with large PS/AE projects being loaded from server over Gbit network.

 

I personally see no reason then to split workstation into two harddisks, if you have the budget just buy directly single 512GB, there is no reason to complicate life and set scratchdisks for every app to reside on second harddisk. Over time it will start to bother you anyway and tons of plugins will do whatever they want anyway. One day it will get messy so why bother. Your files will be on network anyway.

 

Both QNAP and Synology are as good as it gets. QNAP offers cheaper option if you want to swap in network card (for example for quad NICs, or 10Gbit), Synology is bit cheaper overall but offers such upgradability starting with much higher and bigger units. I also think Synology has bit more user-friendly interface but neither is bad.

[numerobis]

No, that really doesn't work in practice for most, and surely not for me. ...

PS and AE projects use huge amount of temporary files while they run (up to 40GB+ easily) depending on complexity and resolution of your project. You can keep their scratch disk out of system one, but then you loose the benefit of speed, and why even do so ?

 

It's 120GB for the first 2 weeks you installed Windows.

I can only say that it is working for me - but you're right, the PS/AE temp folder is a point. I have placed them on D: . So, yes... it should be more incl. temp files on C:

 

Partitions ? In 2015 ?

Why not?

All data files are kept on D:. If something went wrong i can overwrite my C: partition with the clean image within minutes.

[RyderSK]

I would say that if someone is worried about corruption of any sort, than he might just go directly with two physical drives despite backup being the correct solution. Partitions aren't particularly any sort of safety net in that regard.

In my view it's more of OCD idea of files separation from days long gone. But to each what he likes :- )

 

I wrote a bit too much today. Time to take a monthly break again I think..

[peterletten]

I don't know, your take. I fed my fileserver (former i7 2600k) with two 1TB 840EVO disks (no raid), one for active projects, one for assets. .

Is that because SSDs are so much more stable? no need for RAID?

 

So no-one can offer any good reasons why its not great practice to keep media cache/scratch on same drive as OS? Strange because I'm sure I've seen this point come up repeatedly. No speed implications?

 

And re your Gigabit NAS connection - so if you're saving a 1Gb PSD file to your NAS it might take 15-20secs. You'd expect on a local SSD it'd be 3-4 times quicker? If thats the case, to me it'd be worth the effort to store the big current project files on a local SSD.

 

Unless I'm misunderstanding something?

 

Re the cache - if there are benefits to a seperate drive, I'd use it for the big cache programs, like AE, and PS. The other apps for sure can make a mess where they want. But I was under the impression caching would be much quicker to a seperate drive.

 

Again, I could very well be mistaken.