Software advice for freelancing?

[mrjackel]

Hello. I am a novice architectural visualiser and I aim to freelance directly for clients. I would like to get some software advice. My main software requirements are speed, simplicity, cost and image quality. As I don't plan to work with other studios/freelancers, I am not concerned about file exchange.

 

I am already experienced in 3ds Max, and I'm aware that 3ds Max/Vray has always been the standard. What I'd like to know is, is that still the route that I should go, or are there better solutions for someone with my needs?

[philippelamoureux]

3ds max is excellent and you already know the software. I'ts a plus. Best renderers for architecture scenes are vray and corona in my opinion. If you don't have any experience with either, try corona first. I'ts easier to learn and cheaper! You can investigate Unreal engine 4 if real time stuff interest you. The engine is free and royalty-free for arch viz! hope that help!

[mrjackel]

3ds max is probably best, but I wondered if sketchup or rhino would be more suitable. I am not experienced in vray, but I was considering corona for its reported ease of use. Are there any upsides to vray in my case?

[SkylineArch]

3ds max is probably best, but I wondered if sketchup or rhino would be more suitable.

 

I use SketchUp for all my modeling, and render in Max. Although, you can achieve the same effect with SketchUp and Vray. You can use Proxies in Vray for SketchUp, but I haven't tried that yet to see it's limits and quality and how it handles that large of scenes. As far as render quality, it's about 90% of where Vray for Max is. That 10% can be big though. There are free render engines for SketchUp, but not quite up to the quality of Vray.

[heni30]

The file exchange issue also comes up when dealing with clients. An architect might give you a preliminary max/vray model or request a model at the end. Of course there are work-arounds but it's one less thing to clutter your brain with.

 

I'm trying to think if there's ever been a case where a newcomer has succeeded in overtaking a really entrenched standard. I guess maybe Chrome and Firefox with Explorer.

[SkylineArch]

Not to keep pushing SketchUp, but it is becoming a standard format/used piece of software. I send my file back to the clients and architect and they can navigate them much easier than a Max file. I've never had a request for a Max file back, but have for 2D DWG files, which again, SketchUp can export pretty easily.

[RyderSK]

There will be probably Corona alpha for Sketchup in summer starting, which imho, pairs excellently with simple software like SketchUp much better than Vray does.

I've spent my first year in CGI working in Sketchup, very fond of it, quite to some high-level with ton of scripts, and kept rendering in 3dsMax. But eventually I switched completely to 3dsMax. It made no sense to continue using two applications. No matter how outside of box and expert your SketchUp workflow becomes, it's hindrance for truly high-level work (due to toolset, scene management, overall start-to-finish workflow inside single app).

 

This question keeps coming year by year and must be the most popular in industry. The answer always is that you can pretty much get around using anything on market, you would be fine. But why complicate your life when the leading player makes everything easier ? The benefits are uncountable.

[mrjackel]

That's a good point George. I think that would only represent the small minority of my clients, but I will have a think about that.

 

Mark, sketchup seems very user friendly. I've had slight concerns over its limitations. Do you model furniture and other complex objects in max?

 

That could be true in this case, Juraj. So you recommend vray over corona too?

[Francisco Penaloza]

Max and V Ray is the standard no way around, with that combo the sky is the limit really, so is the best investment you can do.

Now with subscription models, Max/Corona will be a cheaper combo for freelancers. even 3D Max with Mental Ray will go very far.

If budget is very tight, Sketchup and Blender is the wining couple, but you'll be on your own with blender because the small market size in Pro archiviz.

 

Skechup and VRay is also a good option but sketchup have some limitation with organic modeling or import export scenes, but for small medium archViz I think it will go fine.

For Apple lovers I think the best choice is Cinema 4D, if you want to run 3D Max you'll need to install windows on your mac and why in the hell you would want to do that really, performance is bad.

 

Rhino -VRay is a good combination, but I honestly feel it is good if you are an Architect that does renderings of your projects, if you want to be a pro ArchViz and maybe jump to other industries, 3dMax is way better option.

 

Funny thing as mentioned by George is these example stay the same for a long time already, different player jump in and out year after year but at the end everything tend to stay under this norm.

I tried MODO for a while, but for the type and scale of my project it didn't last to long.

Edited April 24, 2015 by fco3d

[nejck]

Well I'm going stray from the popular opinion and state that Cinema 4D might also be good for you.

 

Like everyone already said, Max + V-Ray is the standard in arch viz and that combo alone could win a few jobs for you since clients do want source files at times. That said I had a chance to try both C4D and Max and I feel like you can get by pretty easy in C4D - less of a learning curve.

 

The hinderance is the fact that with Max you can get up and running with a monthly subscription while with C4D you will need to pay at least around 1500$ to get it going. It gets way cheaper in the long run but then again you need to start first...

 

Pros and Cons? Max can handle a zillion of polygons and objects while C4D (currently) is a bit limited when it comes to viewport performance. That said I really feel like C4D is A LOT more straightforward and it can actually be hard to get lost in it. Overall the UI is way faster than that of Max. The tools are mostly the same, it has some pros and some cons when it comes to modeling but in general (thanks to the MoGraph module) you can get a lot of the stuff done super fast without any plugins (like, you don't acutally need to get railclone ). If you go for a studio version you will get sculpting tools too and while they aren't exactly zBrush they are very very powerful. Essentialy you get to do everything in one software. V-Ray and Corona are present but you do need to wait a bit for official releases due to Max being the industry standard.

 

Just my input. In general I'd suggest you try stuff out (if you have the time) and then stick to whatever you feel comfortable with. If you plan on being in touch with a lot of studios then Max is probably the way to go but feature wise I strongly believe each software (including SKP, Modo...) has some unique Pros and Cons - render engines are very translatable between all of the popular softwares. In the end you will need to master whatever you end up choosing and luckily, most stuff gets translated between programs really well.

 

Hf!

Edited April 24, 2015 by nejck

[Eliot Blenkarne]

Juraj, you mention that Sketchup - 3DS workflow is a hindrance to high level work. What about the likes of PG/Boundary guys and Bertrand Benoit? I understand they both use Sketchup in early stages of modelling, then move to max for populating the scene and rendering with Vray/Corona. With this said, this is purely my memory here, so I may be mistaken, particularly with regard to BB.

 

I agree essentially though - it is a bit daft to use both, and I would also agree with the sentiments around the difference in vray for skp and vray for max. The former is certainly gaining ground, it's the dearth of plugins in skp that the max guys have that is telling at this stage as well as the lack of volumetric lighting etc, and no doubt far less developed integration. I love vray for skp though - with 64 bit skp, things are so, so much easier than when I started.

[RyderSK]

You only mean Peter Guthrie, not Bertrand (I doubt rest of Boundary guys as well, but Bertrand absolutely not).

 

But you answered your question as well.

 

in early stages of modelling; then move to max

 

Then move into 3dsMax because the later work scope is beyond SketchUp's capacity and comfort zone. So it's not about SketchUp even better in those early stages, but Peter Guthrie being more comfortable there.

 

And so was I. But Veronika was already doing clean quad-modelling and Sub-D within 3dsMax (she didn't use SketchUp for so long as me) and was faster anyway, so there was no benefit and her modeling was higher quality, and more flexible to work with (because of modifier stack, and model cleannnes).

 

SketchUp is amazing software and I stuck with it for so long because I used it during college, it's great tool for architects. But it's subpar and limiting tool if you're visualizer. It now has quite a place in CGI world, esp. in concept art or basic 3D archviz where photoshop might take over a lot. But for everything else, it will always be too basic.

[mrjackel]

Sketchup does seem quick and user friendly, but I wouldn't want to be limited. I tried c4d in the past but wasn't too keen on it. And I know max quite well. I'm leaning towards vray as there's a lot of learning material about. But for a fast and user friendly renderer, would corona be better?

Edited April 27, 2015 by mrjackel

[RyderSK]

But for a fast

 

Speed is always very debatable thing, and very scene, user, setup,etc.. dependent. I would never make claims of one being drastically faster overall.

Then again, the time you save by going straight to rendering, makes up to a lot.

 

[Artist](/edit) friendly renderer

 

Yes, very much in my opinion. This is basically the top priority quality I search in my tools. The more lone wolf you are, the more this becomes important, as there are just so many other things that hog your attention.

 

Nothing is ever, simple enough, or too simple.

[mrjackel]

Ha, well nothing's simple enough in this game. Sorry if I misread you, but is that a nod towards corona over vray?

[nicolacandussi]

Max+Vray is the standard for a reason, but it can be costly and it could be more than you need depending on your market.

If you're looking for cost effective and pretty easy to learn software, then start with SketchUp for modeling - it's got a large community and a lot of training materials and a decent free version (Make).

 

I'm biased, but take a look at FluidRay for rendering - it integrates with SketchUp, Rhino and has scripts for Max.

[Chris MacDonald]

If I began freelancing today I'd use Sketchup (cheap, very, very fast - but know its limitations) and 3DS Max (heavyweight, massive toolset, lots of tutorials, loads of assets) with Corona as a render engine (relatively cheap, superb results).

 

I would love to be able to recommend something like Modo - but getting hold of assets for things other than 3DS max is a bit of a pain. Obviously not an issue if you plan to model things yourself, but time is money and having drag & drop assets is a necessity.

[Scott Schroeder]

Quite honestly, starting out freelancing, you really should stick to one software workflow. If you choose SketchUp, stay in SketchUp. If you are in Max, stay in Max. Forking out the cost for Max just to use it as an import+render workflow isn't very cost effective in my opinion. If you pay for the cost of max, you want to use it to your maximum ability.

 

I would say Max+Corona will give you the best rounded workflow and the ability to use just about any file format a client would give you.

 

SketchUp+Corona(I don't think it's widely available yet and still in closed beta) would be your most cost effective route.

[yupstrips]

If you're a freelancer or independent, what's the best advice you could give me as I start down this road?

[Chris MacDonald]

If you're a freelancer or independent, what's the best advice you could give me as I start down this road?

 

Read the thread you've just posted in, perhaps?

[nicolacandussi]

If you're looking for the best balance of cost and features, then I think SketchUp is your best option. 3DS is the standard for a reason, but it's value depends on how detailed and complex your models will be. The same goes for the rendering software you use. If you want to generate renders quickly and don't want anything complicated, then look at the SketchUP extensions from Fluid Interactive.

 

Full disclaimer: this is my company. But the Ambient Occlusion and SketchFX will both give you good looking renders.