setting up simple bedroom scene / should i use a roof or not on the scene

[jonathan Evans]

I have a simple bedroom scene setup . The scene consists of 1 vray sun light with an environment skymap. The scene has two sky portals on each window to draw the vray sun into the room . I am trying to get a good light set up .

 

I tried the room with out a roof and we can see from the image . i belive the wall to be casting a shadow into the room. This would not be possible unless the room had no roof.

 

 

on the 1st image i place a roof to remove the casting of the shadow . The room is now darker but to dark. I was wondering which one was common practice to be the correxct environemnt set up. Is it common practicc e to have a roof or not a roof

 

Please see images attached

Edited May 16, 2015 by hansolohan

[ARTE DELLA VITA]

always have a roof! you are obviously doing something wrong from what i see so far, i think your gamma is incorrect

[jonathan Evans]

1 has a roof 1 doesnt have a roof the lighter didnt have a roof we can see the shadow which made by the wall which does make sense .\ As it would in the real world if there was no roof

[Corey Beaulieu]

You need to use the camera exposure settings to get more light.... removing a roof or playing around with objects shadow casting is not going to result in a very realistic image.

 

Your windows are very small and thus will no let much light in. You may want to crate larger windows and ones more in scale with reality.

 

If you are going to keep what you have, then you will want to expose for artificial lights, meaning turn off your sun and setup lights around the room, get your camera exposure correct and then render wit your sun on. It will be over exposed out the windows, but that's how it works in reality.

[jonathan Evans]

corey i was just thinking about the exposure. Thank you have answered the question . The baffling question was do i need a roof and the answe is yes thank you. Thats is better option good because it stop the blue sky environment map reflection the scene giving that blue tinge .

 

nice 1

[krishnakumar]

Its secondary bounce problem... u simply change to Exponential in color map and give the value 1.6, 1.5, 1.3(Gama).

 

And place V Ray plane light on window (invisible mode). (standard value 8-12)

 

any way, I like the mood of 1st image

Edited May 17, 2015 by krishnakumar

[jonathan Evans]

Ive changed the value of the f number to 4 . This has given more light to the room see attached .

 

I i need more objects now in the room. as it loooking very plain . Im ight enlarge the window to patio doors window and this will draw more even light into the scene and addd curtains. I am blank what objects to add to the scene

 

Ive seen these type of scenes and looks nice with a convincing back drop. Maybe i can get this image to better by adding some objects to the scene as plain jane at the minute

Edited May 17, 2015 by hansolohan

[jonathan Evans]

krisha just to reply to your question . There are two plane lights in this currents scene . Both are over the windows . Should i add a 3rd plane light. I am unsure were the plane 3rd light would be positioned . As there are 2 plane light in this current scene

 

I will change the colour map to exponential and try the values you mention. To see how this would affect the current scene. I am currently trying this now.

 

 

Does any one know if there is a way to make the light travel further forward. Is possible to have control of the lights distance. As an example the size of the refelcetions thats traveling through the window i like to make these further foward. Just a little bit mores that possible to control the distance

Edited May 17, 2015 by hansolohan

[josem1]

Hi

 

Are you using 3ds max - Vray?

[Corey Beaulieu]

There are no default values for lights that work in an exposed setting. An F of 4 certainly lets more light into your camera, but you will want to lower your Shutter Speed and raise your ISO to get more.

 

To move the light on your floor you should be using a sun.... the angle of which controls how far into the room it reaches.

 

Any plane lights that you have on your window should not be illuminating your scene rather they should be set to "Skylight Portal"

 

If you have been illuminating your scene with plane lights thus far you are likely going to want to start over a bit. Place a sun and sky in your scene. Make sure your glass is set to "Affect Shadows" and then "Color+Alpha" in the refractive segment of the material parameters. Then set our plane lights over the windows (just off actually so they are not co-planar) and then set them to skylight portal.

 

With this and your GI turned on, you should get better light into your room and the camera settings you have may need to be tweaked. I would focus on the F Number at first. Leave the Shutter and ISO at 100/100 and only use them to fine tune your lighting once you have reached a generally acceptable amount of light.

 

Tricks in rendering are for combating technical issues and special case scenarios.... if you are just learning, then go with the most physically accurate setup. Learning to walk before you can crawl is never going to make you stable on your feet.

[jonathan Evans]

the plane lights are set to sky light portal . Sun is already in plafce with 2 sky light portals . Globa illumination is turned on . There are new changes and developments on the picthures as progress down the page

[jonathan Evans]

ive actual got the stage were i have 2 sky light portals . I have changed the f value and i could see how this adds more light .I have used values of 6 and 4 on the f value which did produce more light in the room

 

I havent added any glass to the windows that should be something i should complete next adding glass to the windows . if anyone has any posts on adding glass to interior scenes please post it

 

 

i change the shutter speed first on this first image and we can see how this would affect the scene . might as well as the planes are sky light portals already set to simple .

 

I should see this change as that what i dont have . oh yes i still dont have any glass on the windows . i gather this might affect the overall colour of the scene .

 

 

 

 

1 thanks just moved the suns - pointer further foward . Thank you i didnt know you could control the suns position in the room. e sun reflections further into the room .

Edited May 17, 2015 by hansolohan

[jonathan Evans]

ok this is the information what every one advice has been based around/ i found this information after all the posts from every one offering advice.

 

Four Most Important Parameters of a Physical Vray Camera

Let me explain the four most important parameters of a physical Vray Camera:

 

Shutter speed: Stutter speed can control the brightness of your scene. A lower shutter speed lets more light reach the photo chip of a DSLR. More light = brighter image. Or the other way around a faster shutter speed give less light pass – the image becomes darker. In real life your image can have blur effects when the shutter speed is too long and your scenery is in motion. But in 3ds MAX it will not have an blur effect because nothing is moving.

F-Number: F-number is the parameter of your cameras aperture. A lower f-number mean wider aperture and thus more light = brighnter image. A higher f-number means a narrow aperture and thus less light = darker image. It is important that it affects the depth of field but in VRay if you are not using the depth of field effect then that also doesn’t matter.

ISO: ISO is the film speed. Higher ISO = bright image, lower ISO = dark image. In real life a higher ISO can cause a noisy image but not in a VRay physical camera.

White balance: It means to identify the right white color for camera. You can make it neutral in VRay

So finally you see that the physical VRay is even more powerfull as a real world DSR camera and does not

[jonathan Evans]

ive changed the sun . moved it further into the room to get a better reflection on the bed

[Chris MacDonald]

I'd still increase the exposure, and sort out the GI because you've got a lot of light leaks and blotchiness going on (which is fine if these are tests).

[jonathan Evans]

They are test renders .lI am taking a estimated guess i will need to increase the samples to remove the blotchiness and light leaks I can see the light leaks are patchy around the cushions. Would i need to increase the light portal plane samples

Edited May 18, 2015 by hansolohan

[Chris MacDonald]

No, this is a Global Illumination issue.

[jonathan Evans]

ok chris shall i increase the sample in the gi settings . If the issue is a global illumination issue

 

I have attached my current gi settings. should i increase the primary or secondary bounces . I belive the secondary bounces are indirect light . I If te issue that is to with the sceondary bounce.

 

I have attched my current settings . Please see attached

Edited May 18, 2015 by hansolohan

[jonathan Evans]

ok i have now updatedthe subdivs in light cache from the default of 1000 to 2000

 

I have read the following post. I have provided the link below this post.

I am not sure were i am increasing the sample. im guessing it refering to the light cache samples

 

http://help.chaosgroup.com/vray/help/softimage/150R1/examples_lightcache.htm

[jonathan Evans]

I can only see the noise on the cushion currently. i could just smooth this area out in photoshop with the clone stamp tool . I have not added the curtains which could create more light leaks. The only light leak i can see with my untrained eye. Happen to be on the cushion.

[jasonstewart]

Its leaking all around the window frame. May be a geometry issue though but with directional light aiming down I would not expect the frame to be illuminated above the sash. The walls are also quite blotchy. I agree you still need to raise the exposure significantly.

[jonathan Evans]

the window frame is a geometry issue.Theres a slight gap. Its not quite touching the window frame. I double check the walls as may have a bad shader map . I am going to decrease the value of the sun to 0.75 to hopefully stop any burnt out issue and decrease the f stop or shutter speed . This may resolve the walls . thanks i wonder what you was reffering too.

 

 

I forgot to enable the srgb button . On the vray frame buffer. It looks alot different now. To much exposure when the button is pressed.

 

I stick to increasing the exposure without srgb enabled . on this scene

Edited May 18, 2015 by hansolohan

[jonathan Evans]

estimated guess - Ive had a standard material on the floor .I didnt use a vray amaterial i thought it be fine . this could hacve caused issues with the relflected light. this might have been why the relfecltion in the room looked odd

[Chris MacDonald]

Right, well firstly the noise on the pillow; it's more than likely down to the number of direct light samples from the VRay Sun. Set up a couple of render elements to check - it won't add to your render times, but will provide you with a lot of information. Try the following:

 

-VRayLighting

-VRayGlobalIllumination

-VRayReflection

-VrayRefraction

 

Each of these passes will allow you to see exactly where the noise is coming from.

 

As for decreasing the sun intensity think about it logically; you are then decreasing the amount of light entering the room and will have to use a brighter camera exposure to compensate, taking you right back to where you were. Burned out windows are something you can tackle in CGI in a number of ways, but I genuinely believe they look fine burned out (especially when combined with post production/lens effects such as glare/bloom). You have to remember that VRay is built around physical values, so the burned out window is something that would happen in reality.

 

And even if you don't want it burned out, there are far better ways to tackle it such as using colour mapping, or compositing, etc.

 

Here are two shots out of our office window, one exposed for the exterior, and one exposed for the interior.

 

 

 

As you can see, in a real world scenario the exact same thing happens - and that's with some big-ass windows too, so even smaller ones will only exacerbate the situation. Don't worry about it, there are far more pressing things in your scene to worry about such as the light leak around the window.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Macker

[jonathan Evans]

I have turned down the sun and used exponential on this render. Not sure if there are any light leaks in this image apart from around the pillows. I will try render pass check were the noise is comingfrom on the pillow

 

i will try these render passes . ive never set up render pass before . I will do that next

 

 

VRayLighting

-VRayGlobalIllumination

-VRayReflection

-VrayRefraction

Edited May 19, 2015 by hansolohan