Buildup New Workstation for 3D / CAD / Adobe Creative Suite - Advice needed!

[michaelberens]

Hello everyone,

 

i spent some time over the last years in this forum to read or "listen" the discussions about hardware and technical topics.

and i have to say, this forum is the most trustworthy source to form an opinion in this area.

now it's the first time i am asked by my employer to give him an advice to buy a new workstation - mainly for architectural requirements (CAD, Adobe Suite, 3D Stills Rendering(maya/vray).

Not High-End but Mid-Range (approx. 2K€ Budget).

 

So, my concept is the following:

 

processor:

Intel Xeon E5-1650v3 6x 3.50GHz So.2011-3 WOF

 

graphics card:

8192MB AMD Sapphire FirePro W7100 8GB GDDR5

 

RAM:

16GB HyperX Predator DDR4-3000 DIMM CL15 Quad Kit

 

Motherboard:

Asus X99-A Intel X99 So.2011-3 Quad Channel DDR4 ATX

 

CPU Cooling:

Enermax ETS-T40-BK Tower

 

HDD:

1000GB Seagate Desktop HDD ST1000DM003 64MB 3.5"

(8.9cm) SATA 6Gb/s

 

SSD:

250GB Samsung 850 Evo 2.5" (6.4cm) SATA 6Gb/s TLC

Toggle (MZ-75E250B/EU)

 

PSU:

630 W be quiet! Pure Power L8 CM Modular 80+

Bronze

 

Case:

Lian Li PC-9FB Midi Tower

 

Please tell me, what's your impression at the first glance.

Are there any mistakes? Where is potential for optimisation?

 

thanks,

michael

[Dimitris Tolios]

Some comments/Thoughts:

 

CPU: Why the Xeon? I am typing on Dell T5810 with that exact CPU, I don't see any benefit from it - I just could not build my own machine from scratch when they bought this for me, and I was "stuck" with the Dell configurator. At least you have the option to just go for an s2011-3 i7 with the exact same hardware and performance. Drop a decent 240mm CLC, and you can o/c it to 4.5GHz or so and be much faster. A vanilla 5820K can do that easily, but even @ stock where it is 200MHz slower than the E5-1650v3, totally makes no difference in real life.

 

CPU cooler: should work fine for stock cooling any s2011-3. I would go for a CM or Corsair CLC 240mm for O/cing as a minimum req.

 

GPU: Overkill? It is not hideously expensive, so if that rocks your boat, sure. Maya did get much better with D3D cards lately, so you can go for a 290/290X and be happy. There are 8GB 290Xs for much less than a W7100.

 

RAM: waste of money. Don't bother with a 3000Mhz kit, won't make any difference for your workstation's performance. DDR4-2400 is good enough, hell, 2133 is good enough.

 

SSD: go bigger. 250 barely cuts it if you want to have some work-files in it along with those huge suites these days.

 

HDD: go bigger (I think)

 

PSU: go better (not bigger, better).

 

Case: w/e works

[Nikolaos M]

1 x Western Digital WD Black 2TB, 4KB Sektoren, SATA 6Gb/s (WD2003FZEX)

1 x Crucial BX100 500GB, SATA 6Gb/s (CT500BX100SSD1)

1 x Intel Core i7-5820K, 6x 3.30GHz, boxed ohne Kühler (BX80648I75820K)

1 x G.Skill RipJaws 4 blau DIMM Kit 32GB, DDR4-2400, CL15-15-15-35 (F4-2400C15Q-32GRB)

1 x Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 Mini, 4GB GDDR5, 2x DVI, HDMI, 3x DisplayPort (GV-N970IXOC-4GD)

1 x ASUS X99-A/USB 3.1 (90MB0L90-M0EAY0)

1 x Phanteks Enthoo Luxe weiß mit Sichtfenster (PH-ES614L_WT)

1 x NZXT Kraken X61

2 x Super Flower Leadex Gold schwarz 650W ATX 2.3 (SF-650F14MG black)

 

Total cost: 2067€.

 

We can easily go below 2000€ by changing some parts.

[numerobis]

I think this looks quite good, but...

 

processor: Intel Xeon E5-1650v3 6x 3.50GHz So.2011-3 WOF

Why Xeon? An i7 5930K is cheaper and a 5280K much cheaper and you can overclock them. And if you don't buy ECC RAM and a board that can utilize it, then there will be absolutely no benefits in using a Xeon. It's the same chip basis

 

graphics card: 8192MB AMD Sapphire FirePro W7100 8GB GDDR5

I can't say much about maya, are you still using openGL or why did you choose a AMD card? I thought viewport 2.0 is now DirectX too? If it is ok, i would take nvidia, maybe a GTX970 or GTX960 with 4GB.

 

RAM: 16GB HyperX Predator DDR4-3000 DIMM CL15 Quad Kit

I would not buy anything less than 4x8GB, but if 16GB is enough for you, then this should be ok. But you don't need the expensive 3000MHz modules, 2133 or 2400MHz should be enough. You won't notice any difference with faster RAM.

 

Motherboard: Asus X99-A Intel X99 So.2011-3 Quad Channel DDR4 ATX

ok

 

CPU Cooling: Enermax ETS-T40-BK Tower

I don't know the Enermax cooler. I would buy a 140mm cooler from Noctua or Thermalright, but maybe this one is also good.

 

HDD: 1000GB Seagate Desktop HDD ST1000DM003 64MB 3.5" (8.9cm) SATA 6Gb/s

I'm no fan of Seagate, but it should be ok. But why only 1TB? Because it has only one platter?

 

SSD: 250GB Samsung 850 Evo 2.5" (6.4cm) SATA 6Gb/s TLC Toggle (MZ-75E250B/EU)

Ok. Or a M.2 PCIe x4 SSD - i will get one for my new workstation build.

http://geizhals.de/samsung-ssd-sm951-nvme-256gb-mzvpv256hdgl-00000-a1257077.html?hloc=de

http://geizhals.de/samsung-ssd-sm951-256gb-mzhpv256hdgl-00000-a1215594.html?hloc=de

 

PSU: 630 W be quiet! Pure Power L8 CM Modular 80+Bronze

OK. But 80+Gold would be better. 630W is enough. But i would go a bit higher with the wattage, to have a bit more headroom, because normally the fan kicks in around 40-60% load, depending on the model. But this depends on your needs and if you want to overclock and what video card you take.

Maybe a be quiet Straight Power or a Seasonic X-Series (semi passive). They come with 5 or 7 years warranty instead of 3 years like the Pure Power.

 

Case: Lian Li PC-9FB Midi Tower

Lian Li is nice, but I don't like the newer cases with chamfered or rounded edges ;-)

[michaelberens]

Thank you very much Dimitris, Nikolaos and numerobis.

Yes, you are all totally right - i see now that there is no plausible reason in my case to opt for the Xeon and the Firepro W7100. Saving the money i should rather get more RAM, a bigger SSD and HDD as you say and a GTX970 which does the same job or even better.

So,the CPU/GPU decision is done : i7-5820K/GTX970!

Overclocking? - i don't know so far, no gaming on this machine intended.

But if there's a benefit for day-to-day work - maybe ;-)

 

@Nikolaos: thanx, that looks good. What do you think about the EVGA GeForce GTX 970 ACX SuperClocked ?

Do i really need Water-cooling?

 

1 x Western Digital WD Black 2TB, 4KB Sektoren, SATA 6Gb/s (WD2003FZEX)

1 x Crucial BX100 500GB, SATA 6Gb/s (CT500BX100SSD1)

1 x Intel Core i7-5820K, 6x 3.30GHz, boxed ohne Kühler (BX80648I75820K)

1 x G.Skill RipJaws 4 blau DIMM Kit 32GB, DDR4-2400, CL15-15-15-35 (F4-2400C15Q-32GRB)

1 x Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 Mini, 4GB GDDR5, 2x DVI, HDMI, 3x DisplayPort (GV-N970IXOC-4GD)

1 x ASUS X99-A/USB 3.1 (90MB0L90-M0EAY0)

1 x Phanteks Enthoo Luxe weiß mit Sichtfenster (PH-ES614L_WT)

1 x NZXT Kraken X61

2 x Super Flower Leadex Gold schwarz 650W ATX 2.3 (SF-650F14MG black)

 

Total cost: 2067€.

 

We can easily go below 2000€ by changing some parts.

@numerobis:

I haven't thought about the M.2 PCIe SSD so far. I just picked out the 512GB Crucial MX100 2.5" (6.4cm) SATA 6Gb/s MLC

(CT512MX100SSD1) for my new buildup. Well 32GB/s sounds great. I have to check the Budget again if 512GB is possible with m.2.

 

So far, thank you all. I think i will come up with my final decision in the next days.

 

bye, michael

[michaelberens]

Thank you Dimitris, Nikolaos an numerobis!

 

Well i think you all are right, the xeon e5 doesn't make really sense in my case, also the firepro w7100.

So i think i will go with the i7 5820K and the Geforce GTX 970 - decision done!

My first thought was "EVGA GeForce GTX 970 FTW ACX 2.0, 1216/1367MHz" , what do you think about that card?

Nikolaos suggests the Gigabyte GTX970 mini?

 

Since gaming and overclocking is not really intended, do i need liquid cooling?

 

Next question concerns SSD - as Dimitris says it should be more than 250GB.

So the Crucial BX100 would be a good choice.

Numerobis suggestion about the Samsung M.2 PCIe x4 SSD sounds also great - but 500/512GB within my budget? :-(

[Stephen Thomas]

I used XFX XTR 650w PSU in my build and it's very nice. Better quality cabling and cheaper than the BeQuiet one. That said I do like BeQuiet and their premium fans are excellent.

 

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/650w-xfx-xtr-series-full-modular-80-plus-gold-1x120mm-fan-atx-psu

[Nikolaos M]

My first thought was "EVGA GeForce GTX 970 FTW ACX 2.0, 1216/1367MHz" , what do you think about that card?

Nikolaos suggests the Gigabyte GTX970 mini?

 

Since gaming and overclocking is not really intended, do i need liquid cooling?

 

Next question concerns SSD - as Dimitris says it should be more than 250GB.

So the Crucial BX100 would be a good choice.

Numerobis suggestion about the Samsung M.2 PCIe x4 SSD sounds also great - but 500/512GB within my budget? :-(

 

About your thoughts:

 

1. The specific gtx 970 is a gpu with quite low tdp (145W, I think) and has a small form factor. The single fan cooler might seem inadequate, but it'd be fine for viewport use only. It's very cheap too:). I made a mistake in the previous geizhals setup (I picked 2x psus...) and went over budget, so this Gigabyte was cheap enough to fit.

 

2. No, you don't need a AIO liquid cooler if you don't intend to overclock, but why not try a modest oc, like 4.2GHz? That would give a 10-15% boost in rendering power and you should be able to reach that frequency with minor changes inside the BIOS and most probably with stock voltages. Anyway, I 'll post another setup with a much cheaper air cooler.

 

3. M.2 PCIe ssd'd are tremendously fast in sequential reads 'n writes, but less impressive in random ones (4K etc.). Nevertheless, some models are really fast and in a way that the normal user could "tell" the difference in comparison with a stantard sata ssd. The only (-) right now is compatibility issues with some motherboards that support m.2. You must make a little research before buying (I've read about some WS models). And of course, as you said, they are still quite expensive. I would suggest you take a look at the one mentioned by numerobis (samsung SM951-NVMe) It's excellent in terms of vfm. I'll try to fit one inside the new setup as well.

 

Here you are:

 

1 x Western Digital WD Black 2TB, 4KB Sektoren, SATA 6Gb/s (WD2003FZEX)

1 x Samsung SSD SM951-NVMe 512GB, M.2 32Gb/s (MZVPV512HDGL-00000)

1 x Intel Core i7-5820K, 6x 3.30GHz, boxed ohne Kühler (BX80648I75820K)

1 x Crucial Ballistix Sport DIMM Kit 32GB, DDR4-2400, CL16-16-16 (BLS4C8G4D240FSA/BLS4K8G4D240FSA)

1 x ASUS GTX970-DC2OC-4GD5-BLACK, GeForce GTX 970, 4GB GDDR5, DVI, HDMI, 3x DisplayPort (90YV07K2-M0NA00)

1 x ASUS X99-A/USB 3.1 (90MB0L90-M0EAY0)

1 x Noctua NH-U14S

1 x Fractal Design Define R5 Titanium, schallgedämmt (FD-CA-DEF-R5-TI)

1 x Cooler Master VS-Series V550SM 550W ATX 2.31 (RS550-AMAAG1)

 

Just below 2000€. I think it's a pretty decent configuration.

Edited June 15, 2015 by nikolaosm

[Dimitris Tolios]

Nikolaos suggests the right track. Its a pretty honest box with all the monies spent where it counts.

I would get a better PSU (a CM V650 maybe) if I was to overclock the 5820K and leaving headroom for "other stuff" in the future, but that's me playing it safe.

 

Also note that the suggested cooler is excellent for stock clocks, it will never be able to sustain a heavily clocked hex @ 100% below 85-90oC, so I would not try it past that 4.2 or so mark, so the mumble below is theoretical.

 

To put things @ scale, for stock clocks the whole thing will be ticking bellow 200W rendering, and around 70-100W when you model hard, so a 550 is not a real concern. Is definitely up to the task. Full out tilt (Say CPU+GPU real time rendering) you should be @ 300W or so.

 

But ramp up the clocks, and a 4.5-4.6GHz hex might pull 250W by itself @ 100% stress test, a bit less when rendering. Add the possibility for a 150-200W load on the GPU side, and the 550 mark gets close to max capacity. Again, this is a "worst case scenario". 99% of the people that buy new PCs, over-do it on the PSU side, thinking that their new monster will not be frugal @ the plug, and they are wrong. I don't want to be responsible for you overspending @ the PSU, just to understand why I would make this change.

[Nikolaos M]

Thanks, Dimitri. I totally agree with what you wrote, and as you saw, I made a 650W psu pick in the previous setup (well, two of them.. ), if TS was to oc his cpu. The V550 is the little brother of the V650, and I've chosen it with the precondition of a modest oc or stock speeds.

I think it is rare to reach the thermal limits of both the cpu and the gpu at the same time, so the 200W+ of the 5820K while rendering is hard to coinside with a max load on the gpu (I think that the gtx 970's models, even the super oc'ed versions, have a tdp under or around 200W).

 

Eitherway, a 650 or a 750W psu would a much "safer" and a more future proof choice. Besides, it's better not to exceed 60% of the psu's wattage for many reasons imo, two of which are temperature and noise. Some alternatives with around the same cost could be imo:

 

1. http://geizhals.de/super-flower-golden-green-hx-650w-atx-2-3-sf-650p14xe-hx-a1039283.html?hloc=de (full wired, but an OK psu)

2. http://geizhals.de/cooler-master-vs-series-v650sm-650w-atx-2-31-rs650-amaag1-a1010431.html?hloc=de (the one Dimitris suggested)

But for some €'s more I would definitely choose this one:

http://geizhals.de/evga-supernova-g2-750-750w-atx-2-3-220-g2-0750-xr-a1083914.html?hloc=de

One of the best psus for the money at this moment (9.8 score by JonnyGURU is a rare thing, + the fact that many people I talk with in other tech forums have purchased it and are very happy with its performance and quiet operation).

Edited June 15, 2015 by nikolaosm

[michaelberens]

Wow, so much input! Thank you all!

To come to a final decission the next days i will do some research, reading reviews, checking the sizes of the parts etc. (because there is not sooo much hurry )

 

I just read a review about a comparison of different gtx970 cards where it says about the Asus GeForce GTX 970 Strix (well, not exactly that one which Nikolaos suggested): "depending on the case, this card could be the loudest or the most quiet .."

What exactly does that mean and how can i check this in advance?

Edited June 16, 2015 by michaelberens

[Nikolaos M]

What exactly does that mean and how can i check this in advance?

 

Hmm, I don't think you can verify that before purchasing, because it is most probably referring to coil whine issues (the 970's are well known for that). It is something you will know only after installing and running the gpu and in most cases it occurs when the card is stressed under great load. If I recall correctly, Dimitris has a 970 Strix, so he will guide you through that. In any case, coil whine justifies RMA, so you 'll be covered.

Edited June 16, 2015 by nikolaosm

[Dimitris Tolios]

Already RMA-ed a 970 STRIX from my personal rig that was whining. Note that the card developed the whine after spending a couple of weeks folding (F@H) for perhaps 14-16Hr a day straight (for as long as I was out of home and/or sleeping).

 

It did not affect the performance at all, and it was audible only @ 100%, but was there and pissing me off.

 

Ended up getting it replaced. Till then, I've built a few more systems with the 970 STRIX, but most of them are using them only for viewport acceleration, so those rarely even have their fans turning - the card can be cooled completely passively by that massive heatsink. I don't know if coil whine would appear to those if I would take them into though the same torture I submit my equipment, but all 4 (including my replacement) are silent.

 

This is one of the three 95% identical builds I've completed 2 weeks ago for my office.

 

 

V750 is overkill, but perhaps due to a mistake was $9 over the V550, so...just throw it in!

[Nikolaos M]

Nice!

 

I've built a system inside a CM N200 myself, and I find that it is a super vfm chassis. I suppose you haven't installed the H110i fans yet, is that right? And if I am right, the Strix's backplate is bending under its weight slightly. I have the same problem with the 780 DCUII.

 

And a last question. Why 3 identical systems like these? (4790K I suppose). 3 separate workstations?

[Dimitris Tolios]

Yes, 3x workstations, being faster for everyday work yet all-together cheaper (with OS) than the single Dell T5810 with E5-1650v3 + K4200 + 256GB SSD I am using.

 

The N200 was a pleasant surprise. Easy to built, very roomy, nice cable management for the size (pardon the ugly CM Vxxx PCIe 8+8 pin design).

 

The STRIX does bend a bit, but less than what you see in the pic, the perspective is a bit exaggerated by the phone's camera. The cooler is a H100i GTX, not a 110i. The fans are in the front face panel, won't be mounted behind the rad. You could mount the HDD cage behind the rad if you wish with this arrangement, although these workstations will be storing stuff on a file server, so no need for bigger storage. The spare CM 120mm fan ended up in the top as a secondary exhaust, although time will tell if the resulting negative pressure will be come a dust hog.

 

Intel i7-4790K

Corsair H100i GTX

Asus Z97M-Plus

Kingston HyperX 16GB DDR3 1866

Asus GTX 970 4GB Strix

Samsung 850 EVO 250GB

Cooler Master N200

Cooler Master V650 80+ Gold

Windows 7 64bit Pro

Edited June 17, 2015 by dtolios

[Sketchrender]

Already RMA-ed a 970 STRIX from my personal rig that was whining. Note that the card developed the whine after spending a couple of weeks folding (F@H) for perhaps 14-16Hr a day straight (for as long as I was out of home and/or sleeping).

 

It did not affect the performance at all, and it was audible only @ 100%, but was there and pissing me off.

 

Ended up getting it replaced. Till then, I've built a few more systems with the 970 STRIX, but most of them are using them only for viewport acceleration, so those rarely even have their fans turning - the card can be cooled completely passively by that massive heatsink. I don't know if coil whine would appear to those if I would take them into though the same torture I submit my equipment, but all 4 (including my replacement) are silent.

 

This is one of the three 95% identical builds I've completed 2 weeks ago for my office.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]53174[/ATTACH]

 

V750 is overkill, but perhaps due to a mistake was $9 over the V550, so...just throw it in!

 

My KTM 990 adv has a smaller radiator than that yolk,

and smaller praded hosing.