padre.ayuso Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Hi, at Sigraph this year I heard that Autodesk is planning to remove Iray and MR from NVidia from their 3DS Max package, which is good, I guess, for NVidia's product. Being an old time user of 3DS Max, MR and IRay never seem to have worked, hence moving to VRay at the beginning of this year. However, visiting NVidia's booth, I was slightly surprised to find Autodesk letting go of MR and IRay and slightly amused to confirm that both of these products never worked in Max because the coding, programming or what have you was not properly done to integrate with Max in the first place. Hence, if you have heard rumors of MR or IRay working better when you bought the actual plug-in, this datum seems to substantiate it. So now, additionally, for those VRay users, I found out that IRay's new set of realistic materials coding will be made available to Chaos group so in case you get a model with IRay's materials, such as in Revit (I presume) and you don't want to go through the hassle (laziness) of changing the materials to VRay, then you should be able to render them, very similar concept to how you can currently render Arch & Design materials in VRay 3.0, with some minor limitations in quality. Anyhow, this is data/rumor that was given to me by one of the NVidia reps at the booth. What are your thoughts? Have you heard anything else on this line? Just a matter of interest, not that it changes anything for me. One thing though, if Autodesk removes MR and IRay, will or should they make 3DS Max cheaper? Since they don't have to pay now for the use of these two products in their program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beestee Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Revit seems to be moving away from MR as well, this 2016 release includes a new renderer simply called Autodesk Raytrace. Comparison examples that I saw when 2016 launched made it seem superior to MR for every scenario. Maybe autodesk is priming to put some new effort behind scanline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davetyner Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I have not heard of such a rumor and I'd like to think I would have heard if it were true. However, I will do some digging and confirm or deny if possible. Did an ADSK employee tell you this or an Nvidia rep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Schroeder Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 When a simple Google search yields zero results of any press release in an official capacity, this is nothing more than the usual SIGGRAPH Autodesk is killing "insert app here" rumors. By the way, did you hear Autodesk is going to kill off Max and go all Maya? I didn't know people still wasted their time rendering in Revit. Mental Ray has such an awful implementation in Revit that you really can't blame Mental Ray for the downfalls. That fault lies within Revit trying to do something it can't do well at all at the core of the program. Even with Vray coming to Revit, it will probably still be 400,000% slower and 500,000% crappier than rendering the exact same non-adjusted scene in Max. Revit should just adopt basic line rendering styles and leave the higher end renderings to apps that better support it. Like Maya, since Max is no longer going to be offered by Autodesk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francisco Penaloza Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 You got me a little confused with your first sentence actually NVidia owns Mental Ray and Iray, they have a partner deal with Autodesk to work in those rendering engines. IMO NVidia does not have any interest on Mental Ray per say and they actually only have interest on IRay as GPU powered rendering. NVidia for a long time tried to create a render to be used with their Video cards and it seems that finally they reached a good platform with I Ray. NVidia design, build and sale video cards that's what they do, that's their business. Mental Ray have a long standing as production raytracer, but since they got acquired by NVidia they been dying little by little. It is sad really, thankfully we got V-Ray if not we would have to deal with an outdated Mental Ray or dealing with other small not production ready render engines for a while. At the beginning it seems like a good deal for both. NVidia take care of the render and Autodesk have an other excuse to take more money from you trying to make you render in their cloud system, full of NVidia cards. Contracts are sign for X amounts of years and maybe this deal didn't work out as good as intended for both of them, maybe Autodesk realized that development of Mental Ray was almost none or they finally listen the users that didn't want 100 type of material across all of their products (Arch design, Autodesk Material, Mental Ray materials, Nvidia materials and so on). Regarding REVIT and V-Ray, I think it is good for V-Ray (selling, market perspective), I really don't know why this would be good for Architects I really do not understand why a regular architect will want to deal with V-Ray complexity, Unless they make a V-Ray light or simple 3 buttons as Mental Ray works on REVIT now. To get good renders it take way more than just using V-Ray on REVIT as we all know, but that's other conversation I guess With V-Ray jumping in to REVIT, it will add an other layer of materials and specs that I really don't know how it will work, hopefully they all play along a share, but I doubt it. knowing Autodesk, to me it sound you'll have to choose if you want V-Ray work flow or Autodesk. If you choose V-Ray and then you send your Architectural REVIT to MEP partner and he does not have V-Ray... I want to see how that works. or in a firm where there is 5 people working on a REVIT project ( pretty common) you will need 5 V-Ray licenses? if not when someone else on the team opens the file it will give them an error? I think it can be a good move to Autodesk to create their own engine. Mental Ray is old, IRay depend only of 1 type of hardware. Tho I wonder how fast they can develop a good renderer. Knowing Autodesk that can take a while, unless of course they buy some one else code Forget Autodesk making a product cheaper because they take off some feature. unless they do a 3d Max Light version the prices stay as they planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davetyner Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Like Maya, since Max is no longer going to be offered by Autodesk. I see what you did there, LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padre.ayuso Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 Interesting topic. I can see we all have different views on the matter. As far as some Rep telling me this, it kinda clicks in the fact that Autodesk is creating their own renderer, like Benj mentions, thus letting go of IRay. And yes, I agree, thanks to VRay for existing. And yes, I'm sure Revit is what causes problems when rendering, not the renderer, tho I have never used Revit to render. And yes, it was totally a hopeful dream (in la la land), that Autodesk would drop down their prices for letting go of IRay. In my workflow, for example, I don't care for the videogame engine, what is it called? Stingray? I actually had a deadline to meet last Monday overnight so on Tuesday (at Sigraph) I took the presentation time on 2016 and on the Stingray part took the opportunity to catch up on sleep. Likely it was over half of the presentation time. So Francisco's idea of making a lite version would be awesome, like requesting to have only those options that we use daily. Similar to Photoshop's idea, even though their more expensive version is not that much of an upgrade from their simple version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgWRX Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 i think it's interesting that max 2016 has a physical camera developed with chaos group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Beaulieu Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 i think it's interesting that max 2016 has a physical camera developed with chaos group. eh... the placement tool was developed with the Ikea people and the Graphite Tools all came from Polyboost, etc... Autodesk is not above working with people who have better/more efficient/more effective ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Wienerroither Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 eh... the placement tool was developed with the Ikea people ... Where did you get that info from ? ... this is the first time i heard this AFAIK the placement tool was an old Tom Hudson idea that got implemented by himself as soon as they re-hired him BTW: Tom Hudson was one of the inital 3d studio DOS developers ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris MacDonald Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Where did you get that info from ? "We also created our own movement mode we call “Pick and Place’ - you actually just pick things up and place them on geometry and things settle and is automatically linked to it as a child. With another tool you could drop fruit in a bowl, for example, and it settles realistically. Not hard to do but no-one had done it yet. Max have now taken one of them on and it’s one of the key things they’re using to sell 3DSMax 2015. We asked them to, actually, as we didn’t want to continue to develop it! I think they’re going to call it “Select and Move”, or something. ( You can find out more about it at Autodesk’s website) The reason we created these tools to start with was to make it easier for photographers and interior designers to get involved in 3D image creation.” http://www.cgsociety.org/index.php/CGSFeatures/CGSFeatureSpecial/building_3d_with_ikea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Beaulieu Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Thanks Chris.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Wienerroither Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 http://www.cgsociety.org/index.php/CGSFeatures/CGSFeatureSpecial/building_3d_with_ikea I would'nt call it "developed with the Ikea people ..." - maybe Autodesk took some ideas and inspriations from Ikea. But' it's not a collaborative effort of any sorts ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderSK Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I wouldn't doubt this, the installer is already separated in Maya 2016, although this was much easier feature due to flexible Qt Core. http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/maya/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2016/ENU/Maya/files/GUID-B376BFE1-21FB-4D8A-8D79-DA17A6C43D34-htm.html Regarding the reason, I've heard it's more because it enables faster update iteration instead of being stuck to yearly releases + service packs. If you check MentalRay blog, you will see they now publish updates you can install yourself into your Maya2016 installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Johnson Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 No, I was still at Autodesk at that time. It was an Ikea thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Wienerroither Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 No, I was still at Autodesk at that time. It was an Ikea thing. Okay - thanks for the definite clarification... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beestee Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Sorry to resurrect an old subject, but I was reading an article today and another discussion, and it brought all of this back to mind. Autodesk Expands Photorealistic Rendering Options ART for 3DS Max beta (mentioned in article above) Also pointed out in the other discussion was a new team formed at Autodesk early last year: Welcome to the Render Team Blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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