NetRender vs. multi-machine

[Ernest Burden III]

i dont use netrender as it doesnt suit my style of working

 

Having an unlimited licence for Cinema would also allow you to install new versions of C on each machine you own, assuming only the one user?

 

Then copy the file to render partially on each? That's what I do with Lightscape instead of using their otherwise guite good netrender app. Since Cinema seems to not be that good at setting up multiple views and multiple animation paths within the multi-machine way seems like a good idea.

 

The one reason I still want to set up NetRender (this week if I can figure it all out) is I want to buy about 6 renderslaves and share them with a collegue in another city who also has Cinema Studio Bundle--chances are slim we would each need to render at the same time, might as well share the capacity over the internet.

[Frosty]

Actually Ernest, the install on the render nodes is different than the install you work with. You may have noticed that Cinema comes with three apps - Cinema, Net Render Client, Net Render Server.

 

Cinema - the app you use to do your everyday work, the interface you are familiar with. It requires all of your SNs, plugins and all.

 

Net Render Client - This is an interfaceless app (check it out, I made up another word). This app starts, connects to the server and renders what its told to. no SNs are required, however it will require all plugins used in the scene

 

Net Render Server - The command center, this app requires your unlimited client SN. Clients connect to this machine looking for work. It is also where you send files ready to be rendered. It can be accessed and controlled via http as it includes a web server of sorts.

 

Hope that helps. Feel free to email me, or hit me up on MSN or skype.

[Ernest Burden III]

Actually Ernest, the install on the render nodes is different than the install you work with. You may have noticed that Cinema comes with three apps - Cinema, Net Render Client, Net Render Server.

 

Right, that is, if you want to use the NetRender function. What Strat said, and what I am wondering about, is having a full install of Cinema (all from the same 'Studio Bundle' serial numbers) on different machines that you use and just copying your project to those other machines, to run dumb, not linked. Since you may have a dozen images to render, or a dozen camera moves, this makes some sense.

 

Legal, if you have un-limited net rights (which I do)?

[Frosty]

Nope. If, I'm understanding you correctly, you want to run the full cinema app on say 6 different machines, each doing a seperate still. That would require six seperate Cinema licenses

 

That method is not using the Net Render Client at all, which you have unlimited access to. Using Net Render in its intended function requires no SNs except the Unlimited client license on the server.

 

If I am understanding you correctly, you would like to render multiple views from the same file on multiple machines. This would be quite easy to set up using Net Render and an Animated Stage object.

 

A Stage Object, allows you to specify which lights, sky, camera, floor ect are used at any time. All of these functions can be keyframed. This means that Six views could be rendered as follows:

One file with six individual cameras has been set up. The file is set to render out an animation six frames long saving to tiffs of the appropriate size. A stage is added and keyframed to use a different camera on each frame (frame 1 = cam1, frame 2 = cam2, frame 3 = cam3 ect). When this is sent through the Net Render System, each client will be given an individual frame to render - in essence a new scene.

[Ernest Burden III]

Nope. If, I'm understanding you correctly, you want to run the full cinema app on say 6 different machines, each doing a seperate still. That would require six seperate Cinema licenses

 

Well, it's functionally no different than me using my own machines for net, but I didn't write the EULA.

 

you would like to render multiple views from the same file on multiple machines. This would be quite easy to set up using Net Render and an Animated Stage object.

 

A stage is added and keyframed to use a different camera on each frame (frame 1 = cam1, frame 2 = cam2, frame 3 = cam3 ect). When this is sent through the Net Render System, each client will be given an individual frame to render - in essence a new scene.

 

Maybe I should pay you to come down here and set all this crap up for me.

 

Otherwise, it's my week.

[Frosty]

Never been to NYC

[Ernest Burden III]

As if you couldn't see this coming...

 

Oh, my god, I'm confused.

 

I am trying to set up NetRender to use my two extra PCs for Cinema.

 

First of all, would I have to setup the client on the main server PC so it renders also, and not just the 'other' machines?

 

But its the IP thing. I don't know much about networks or internet protocols, so I'm f*ing LOST.

 

My cable connection goes into a Linksys router, the 3 PCs connect to the router--two hardwired, one WiFi-G. So the Linksys handles IPs for the PCs, bt its getting a dynamic IP from the cable model (DHCP). Even if I set the router to address static, I am stuck with the dynamic from the cable company.

 

So am I going to have to ID the IP address everytime the router is reset (not that often, but it happens) and re-enter that address to the Net server and all clients?

 

And I can't even get the damned IP I'm assigned, since my workstation only sees the router.

 

Maxon tech-support was of little help. Did I mention that I'm F*ing LOST?

[Frosty]

no worries. i'll walk you through. get me on msn messenger if you can, it will be much easier. please list the hardware you have on hand as a dedicated render server is better and can run on something small (my first server was a PII 266)

[Ernest Burden III]

no worries. i'll walk you through. get me on msn messenger if you can

 

I don't have that, or have it set up if I have it.

 

Hardware--

Athlon 2700+ w/1.5G XP-Pro(main machine, Boxx)

Athlon 2700+ w/1.5G W2K

Athlon 2400+ w/1.0G XP-Home

 

all on LAN through the Linksys Router, cable modem with un-changeable DHCP dynamic IP addressing.

 

As I've mentioned, I will add about 6 plain boxes later, but first want to set this up on the 3 machines I already have.

 

Later, I want to add the mini-farm, AND make it available to a collegue with whom I often collaborate on animations.

[Frosty]

Hardware--

Athlon 2700+ w/1.5G XP-Pro(main machine, Boxx)

Athlon 2700+ w/1.5G W2K

Athlon 2400+ w/1.0G XP-Home

 

all on LAN through the Linksys Router, cable modem with un-changeable DHCP dynamic IP addressing.

 

As I've mentioned, I will add about 6 plain boxes later, but first want to set this up on the 3 machines I already have.

 

Later, I want to add the mini-farm, AND make it available to a collegue with whom I often collaborate on animations.

 

OK, the Two Athlon 2700s will run Net Client, the 2400 will run Net Server.

 

Athlon 2400

Install Net Render Server and set it to launch on startup (I just drag a shortcut into startup items). Next we give the server a static IP within the LAN, open the Network Connections control panel and Right-Click on the LAN choosing Properties. Select TCP/IP and properties. Choose "Use the following IP address"

IP=192.168.1.* (enter your choice for the last 3 digits, higher than 001 and lower than 255, and write it down)

Subnet=255.255.255.0

Default Gateway=192.168.1.1

Close all that up.

Start up Net Server to adjust a few settings. File Menu>>Network Settings. Set the port number password to something you like and write it down. Restart the computer. Net Server should auto launch and this machine should now be set to a static IP. On to the clients.

 

Athlon 2700 #1

Your main workstation probably already has Net Client installed, if not install it now. Launch Net Client and alter the network settings, File Menu>>Network Settings

Server Address= the Static Ip you set on the server (192.168.1.***)

Server Port Number=the port you set in Net Render Server

Password=the password you set in Net Render Server

Client Info= a name for this client ie. Work Station, Render Node 1 ect.

Click OK and restart Net Client. Net Client should now connect to the server and look for work.

 

Athlon 2700#2

Install Cinema and all required modules and plugins. Launch Net CLient and repeat set-up from Athlon #1 but use a unique Client Name ie. Work Station 2 or Render Node 2.

 

Adding Clients later is easy, but remember they will need to be all of the same processor family to do GI together. Each Processor family seeds random numbers differently so the grain in GI wont match between frames or image slices. This is only of concern when using GI or Caustics.

 

We can work on giving your friend access later. not much will be involved except making sure he knows the DHCP IP of your router. A dyndns service will be a lot of help.

[Ernest Burden III]

What do I owe you?

 

Oh, and I'm still not sure how to get the actual IP that I am assigned by the cable system, how to find out? ipconfig/all only returns the routers local IP, which is the same for all Linksys routers.

 

Oh, and the 'server' machine will render also when sent a 'job'?

[Frosty]

OOPS! I edited your post rather than Quoting it!

 

What do I owe you?

Send me some work when you're too busy

 

Oh, and I'm still not sure how to get the actual IP that I am assigned by the cable system, how to find out? ipconfig/all only returns the routers local IP, which is the same for all Linksys routers.

No need to know that at this point. That will only be required to access and control the farm from outside your LAN. We'll deal with that later. Once you've got it running, I'll explain how to access and run it all within the LAN.

 

Oh, and the 'server' machine will render also when sent a 'job'?

You could set up a client on the server as well, in my experience it was too much and the machine would crash. I prefer a dedicated server and thats why I asked if you had an older machine kicking around. Keep in mind that the server is going to need the storage. All the rendered files end up there. My choice was a 4 drive RAID 5 set up with one fail safe drive. It gives me 360GB of storage for all my files and a little bit of fault protection as well.

[jackb602]

Hi Frosty,

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation! I've been thinking about setting up a small render farm as well, and I'll come back to your post when I'm finally ready. I'm in the same boat as Ernest, with only a dynamic IP address. But I did set up a an address at http://www.dyndns.org (a dynamic DNS service) that points to my machine, I just haven't used it yet. Can Net Render be accessed this way or does it absolutely require a static IP address?

 

Thanks,

Jack

[Ernest Burden III]

I'm in the same boat as Ernest, with only a dynamic IP address. But I did set up a an address at http://www.dyndns.org (a dynamic DNS service) that points to my machine, I just haven't used it yet. Can Net Render be accessed this way or does it absolutely require a static IP address?

 

We can't be the only people with that situation, in fact I had DSL for a while and I recall that the provider, Verizon, would not guarentee a locked-down IP address. Even if I turn off my PCs (which rarely happens) the cable modem is still on and would keep its IP--but it does occasionally get reset or suffer from a power failure--likely result being handed a new IP.

 

I wonder if the 'business-class' version of a cable connection uses static IP. I'll look into that.

[jackb602]

Hi Ernest,

 

I vaguely remember asking my provider (Comcast, and don't get me started about the dangers of monopolies) about a static IP address and they either wanted an absurd price for it, or wouldn't offer it at all. As I understand it, a Dynamic DNS service lets you imitate a static IP address. I have a small client program (called DNSupdate) that keeps my IP address coordinated with the dyndns.org server so that my address always points to my machine. The only reason I think it might not work is that the Net Render manual keeps referring to a numerical IP address rather than a conventional web address. I hope there's a solution for us.

 

Jack

[Frosty]

Can Net Render be accessed this way or does it absolutely require a static IP address?

 

The server does require a static IP on the LAN. Otherwise the clients wouldnt know where to look. However, the dyndns simply points external traffic towards your cable/dsl modem which is on DHCP. In order to get external traffic through to the server web interface, a port forarding needs to be created on the router (the server port number from the setup).

 

So in a long explaination Jack, Yes it does require a static IP and Yes it does work the way you thought

[Jorge Arango]

Frosty: I wish I'd have your step by step directions when I set my mini farm. (But I did have the help of dann_stubbs on PostForum). Now, I just want to suscribe to this thread to be there when you get to explain the over internet set up.

 

Thank you,

 

Jorge Arango

[Ernest Burden III]

I just want to suscribe to this thread to be there when you get to explain the over internet set up.

 

Me, too. It has me worried. The Maxon manual tells us several time in two pages how EASY setting up Net is...as long as you have locked-down IPs I guess, which few people have with DSL or cable internet connections.

[Frosty]

I'm checking out the dyndns stuff right now as I've never done it before. It looks quite simple as most of the work is handled by a third part.

 

People should be aware of an issue I encountered a while back.

Cinema Net Sever will not accept client from within the LAN and from outside at the same time. To further explain, I had my own farm running (about 13 CPUs) and I was trying to add about another 20-30 from school over the Internet. The Net Sever would recognize my machines on the LAN OR the school computers, but not both.

 

I'm unsure if this was an issue with the Server software or an issue of working through a router. Either way, people should be aware of it as it may affect their plans.

[Frosty]

OK, I set up dyndns for myself in about 20 mins with no clue how to do it. Very Simple.

 

1) Head over to dyndns.org and set up an account

2) Register a domain with them. This is the address you will use to access your farm remotely.

3) Install a client to ensure your record is constantly updated. This is the important part - with this you will always be able to access your farm even if your DHCP IP changes, because the domain name will always point to the correct place.

4) Access the router and make sure you have port forwarding turned on to allow traffic through to the Net Server. If your server port was 1234, set the forwarding to 1233 to 1235 and make sure its be sent to the Server LAN IP.

 

After that has all been completed and dyndns.org has had a few minutes to update, you should be able to access the Render Farm Remotely via the domain you registered.

In Practice it will be:

http://domainname.dyndns.org:****

Be sure to replace "domainname" with your choice and "****" with the port number of your sever.

[William Alexander]

People should be aware of an issue I encountered a while back.

Cinema Net Sever will not accept client from within the LAN and from outside at the same time. To further explain, I had my own farm running (about 13 CPUs) and I was trying to add about another 20-30 from school over the Internet. The Net Sever would recognize my machines on the LAN OR the school computers, but not both.

Don't know if this is any help, I have forget most of the specifics....

 

It can work. Participated in a C4D VPN web net render experiment 2 months ago. At one piont ther were like 200 machines, some direct, some on Lan, some on Lan through firewall. There were 3-10 jobs running for a day or so. It works!!!!

 

Firewalls had port forwarding through Port:1800

Here's how the client INI file looked

 

[ settings ]

serveraddress = 11.111.111.111 (in this case static VPN dedicated server Address)

serverport = 8080

clientaddress = 0

clientport = 1800

password = mrndrsnalso

clientinfo = "username" (actual was specified)

priority = 1

 

 

I believe, there was also something about using the proper port's or something to that effect. I'd have to go back through a bunch of stuff to find out for sure if it's a real issue.

 

Maybe you can get some info out of this, because it was really was as easy as changing the client ini file and making sure the firewall and net render stuff was the same.

 

I just can't for the life of me remember anything more specific, ie if VPN was an aboslute requirement for mixed LAN network configurations

 

WDA

[Ernest Burden III]

Don't know if this is any help

 

It's a tremendous help, as is that of Frosty. Not that I understand it all.

 

I do expect to be able to mix access to a 'personal farm' from under the LAN and the other side of a router. This should work. This must work.

 

Maxon tech-support was virtually no help. I didn't understand the problem enough to ask the right questions, but all they could say was that everything should be fine.

 

You guys are why it will be fine. Thank you.

[Ernest Burden III]

So using NetRender will only render stills if you use the 9tile or 25tile camera. Or create your own baffle rig, but why bother when the tile cams are built in and work without much effort.

 

Then there is the 'stage' tag (which I still have to find) to make a file render a set of views as anim. frames.

 

These are both very useful for architectural vis. Maybe, Steve, you could update your tutorial on the tile cams to include use of the 'stage' tag explained for architectural persons? (Everyone is great at creating work for others).

 

My sometimes partner was asking if buying duals was a good idea for the farm I am going to put together and share with him for NetRender. I know this must have been said somewhere, maybe the manual, but does NetRender take advantage of dual-processor PCs?

[Frosty]

My sometimes partner was asking if buying duals was a good idea for the farm I am going to put together and share with him for NetRender. I know this must have been said somewhere, maybe the manual, but does NetRender take advantage of dual-processor PCs?

 

I believe Cinema can use up to 16CPUs per machine - so yes it uses duals. Deal Xeons will render with four threads. When you build your farm price it out based on Cinebench ratings/$. A great database of ratings has been established over at http://www.imashination.com (his site is down currently). It will allow you to see which CPUs render faster, in Cinebench Units. The numbers seem arbitrary, but its very useful for comparing different processor families. I think my choice for a farm rightg now would be an Asus mobo with onboard video/lan, 1GRam, and a 3.2P4 with HT. I think may be your best power/$.

 

Rendering machines are really all about CPU power and available Ram. Size of the HD doesnt matter and video performace means nothing.

[Ernest Burden III]

Deal Xeons will render with four threads.

 

I'm an AMD fan...so buying Intel would cause pain, but not THAT much.

 

Running four threads would do what, exactly, for NetRender? Would it render two frames twice as fast, or what? In other words, what happens to a submitted job when sent to a dual CPU machine or the dual Xeon showing four threads?