Need Help. 4 x Xeon E7-8870 with Windows Server 2012.

[daveharry]

Hi everybody. I'm kinda new here. I got a issue with my rig. I've got a 4 x Xeon e7-8870 processor but I can't seem to get the max power out of it. Normal setup 40 cores without hyper-v, the max cpu power I'm getting when rendering is 50%. Whenever I use hyper-v i'm stuck with 64 logical processor (which make sense) but get to use more of the multithreaded functionality.

 

I've got windows server 2012 installed. I'm also using cinema 4d and 3ds max. Does anybody know what's wrong here?

Edited December 2, 2015 by daveharry

[RyderSK]

Do you mean "hyper-threading" ? Because "Hyper-V" is Windows virtualization technology, there should be no reason for you to use it.

 

First of all, why did you buy such machine :- ) ? Not even rendering cloud farms use these because even generally multi-threaded tools like off-line raytracers have issue with properly utilizing 4 cpu groups. Until last month, Vray and Corona couldn't even properly use anything more than 64 threads, which has now been corrected (you need the absolute latest release of these engines).

 

3dsMax by itself can only use single CPU group, which doesn't matter, because it's 90perc. single-threaded application anyway, and you're rendering with the engines which only communicate through API. But as I said, you need the latest version which only guarantee maximum amount of cores for two CPU groups. You simply need to try if it will work with four, but there is no guarantee and if it won't, you're out of luck.

 

There is another solution, which is to use multiple executions of the engine at same time. Basically, Distributed rendering in single computer. Running Vray (or other engine) two or (more) times until you utilize 100perc. of thread usage. Not the most comfortable... but this is where the rendering technology is.

[daveharry]

Do you mean "hyper-threading" ? Because "Hyper-V" is Windows virtualization technology, there should be no reason for you to use it.

 

First of all, why did you buy such machine :- ) ? Not even rendering cloud farms use these because even generally multi-threaded tools like off-line raytracers have issue with properly utilizing 4 cpu groups. Until last month, Vray and Corona couldn't even properly use anything more than 64 threads, which has now been corrected (you need the absolute latest release of these engines).

 

3dsMax by itself can only use single CPU group, which doesn't matter, because it's 90perc. single-threaded application anyway, and you're rendering with the engines which only communicate through API. But as I said, you need the latest version which only guarantee maximum amount of cores for two CPU groups. You simply need to try if it will work with four, but there is no guarantee and if it won't, you're out of luck.

 

There is another solution, which is to use multiple executions of the engine at same time. Basically, Distributed rendering in single computer. Running Vray (or other engine) two or (more) times until you utilize 100perc. of thread usage. Not the most comfortable... but this is where the rendering technology is.

 

Thanks for replying Juraj. You're really helpful. I got this machine for a reasonable price. I couldn't say no.

 

Yes hyper-v is virtualisation but isn't hyper-v that enables the hyper threading functionality in WS12? If not, I couldn't get to use hyper threading to work in normal mode. Any help with that too?

 

So I should get the latest VRAY Engine for max to get it to work 100%? I guess VrayforC4D hasn't even come up with it yet?

Edited December 2, 2015 by daveharry

[RyderSK]

Now, I am not 100perc. sure about stuff like 4-sockets :- ) Since I never had and never will have one, and things get complicated especially because you need Windows Server to utilize it.

 

Yet, I've never heard you would need virtualization to use all 4 sockets and Hyper-threading is bios enabled separate feature from Hyper-V. I.e, If you use Hyper-V for virtualization, you can but don't need to use hyper-threading, it depends on application but it's preferable to keep hyper-threading.

Oppositely, hyper-threading shouldn't depend on anything.

 

Lastly, yes, VrayForC4D is developed separately and not by ChaosGroup, so what works in 3dsMax might not in Cinema even if they use identical core. It's best to write to the developer itself in this case

 

I will research the Hyper-V but it doesn't sound right.

 

Btw, you mention that without Hyper-V you get 40 cores but only 50perc. utilization ? This doesn't sound correct either, because you will get 100perc. utilization regardless whether hyper-threading is on or off. Try using multi-threaded benchmark other than 3D.

[daveharry]

Now, I am not 100perc. sure about stuff like 4-sockets :- ) Since I never had and never will have one, and things get complicated especially because you need Windows Server to utilize it.

 

Yet, I've never heard you would need virtualization to use all 4 sockets and Hyper-threading is bios enabled separate feature from Hyper-V. I.e, If you use Hyper-V for virtualization, you can but don't need to use hyper-threading, it depends on application but it's preferable to keep hyper-threading.

Oppositely, hyper-threading shouldn't depend on anything.

 

Lastly, yes, VrayForC4D is developed separately and not by ChaosGroup, so what works in 3dsMax might not in Cinema even if they use identical core. It's best to write to the developer itself in this case

 

I will research the Hyper-V but it doesn't sound right.

 

Btw, you mention that without Hyper-V you get 40 cores but only 50perc. utilization ? This doesn't sound correct either, because you will get 100perc. utilization regardless whether hyper-threading is on or off. Try using multi-threaded benchmark other than 3D.

 

You're probably right. I need to check my bios settings. But for the 50% utilisation, it always happens when I'm not in hyper-v mode. Its changes what socket it uses (1&2, 1&3, 2&4, etc), but always 50%.

[Francisco Penaloza]

long long time that I deal with windows server, but for what I remember, for Us rendering CG people these new multi CPU, multi core Hyper threading technology does not grow Lineal as we thought. It is all about windows. I hope some things changed in Windows Server 2012 but some function are very tight to the way the OS work so I don't aspect miracles.

 

What you are describing is exactly the way windows server will behave. remember that Windows Server is designed for, well "servers duties" this mean to do several different task at the same time. Not only one big task. So the way windows distribute your LP and SMT wont be beneficial for rendering purposes, in this exaggerated case. In this specific case of multi core, 4 CPU HT setup. Actually it will be recommended to disable Hyper thread so windows uses more power from the CPU in your render task.

When you enable Hyper-V windows kind per-assign cpus for the visualization, that's why you see them working to height levels, but again since you have so many, it won't use all of them for a single task, such rendering. You can go to Microsoft website and search for Multi CPU and visualization, there they explain in detail how things works, it is complex, but in a nut shell for renderings, because the way windows server work, you won't be able to utilize all 80 cores. It is recommended to turn off Hyper-threading so you use more CPU power for each core selected.