Sketchup VS 3ds max

[mohamedaly1]

For architectural rendering, which one is better to start learning 3Ds max or sketchup? did sketchup with vray can get the same result like 3dmax now?

[John Dollus]

Tiltpixel does great work with sketchup/vray combo

http://www.ramyhanna.com/2013/05/v-ray-for-sketchup.html

[Eliot Blenkarne]

Exception rather than the rule I would say with the tiltpixel example, though they are nice images!

 

If you're starting from scratch, it makes sense to start with 3ds max. I wish I had!

[numerobis]

sketchup+max ;-)

[SkylineArch]

SketchUp and Vray renders can equal Max and Vray, they are pretty much the same after all. So if you can get nice images form one, you can from the other. The difference is modeling time. SketchUp will be much faster for modeling Architecture, but it depends on what else you need beyond simple modeling. Then there is a huge cost difference between the two options.

[Eliot Blenkarne]

Respectfully disagree. Vray is implemented better inside max still, which is natural given the head start. SKP is missing things like volumetric lighting, fog, and basic things like the material editor in max is much nicer I reckon. Vray for SKP has come a long way since I started using it 3 or 4 years ago though, so for those really experienced with it, it must be hugely better.

 

And totally agree about speed of modelling the basic stuff. I was actually surprised how clunky and immovable max is. I'm trying to use it to model from scratch (no DWG as reference, just a plane with a floor plan image). Horrible by comparison to sketchup.

 

You also make a good point about detail level - max obviously outstrips skp in complex modelling and curved surfaces, among other things... and then there's the cost :|

[SkylineArch]

Yes, Ultimately Max+Vray is probably the best bet for ArchViz rendering. I guess it depends on what your renders will contain, or how complex the projects will be. For example, Animations are definitely better in Max, or advance renderings like you mentioned above. I currently model everything non-organic in SketchUp, and render interiors in SketchUp and exteriors in Max (for now, until I get a chance to try out Skatter)

[kittysnow]

Sketchup is esayer to learn ,but sketchup must use separate renderer.

[jansandstrom]

Sketchup is esayer to learn ,but sketchup must use separate renderer.

 

Well, Vray is a separate renderer for Max...

 

I've worked with all the major 3d apps and for modelling architecture that isn't curved SketchUp is a superb tool. Very fast and if you use it right it creates good clean geometry.

As all apps it has it's weaknesses. True mathematical curves is one of them but for most things it's a very good modeler.

As for renderers, Vray for SU is not in par with the Max version. There will be a version 3 someday but when is not known by me.

I use Thea render now and am very pleased with the quality and fantastic integration.

The developers are very good at listening to the users and are making fixes very quickly. Unlike Vray. If you haven't tried Thea please do. It's the only renderer I know of that can use both CPU and GPU together for rendering.

 

In the past SketchUp could have a hard time with heavy geometry but much of that went away in the latest versions. I've imported Revit models and even three different large Revit buildings into the same SketchUp file and worked with them without problems. Navigating the Revit file with just one of the models was much slower in Revit than in SU.

 

There are a lot of exiting SketchUp plugins newly released or coming soon. Thomthoms SubD brings sub division modelling to SketchUp.

Skatter for scattering render only vegetation and much more and LSS Arch for dynamic parametric modelling of walls and windows and such. Viz is another exiting parametric plugin in the making that will bring Grasshopper like modelling to SketchUp.

WrapR is a upcoming UV mapping plugin that will have a SketchUp friendly interface and Animator by master Fredo is a parametric animation tool for SketchUp that looks absolutely great.

 

And if you still want to render with Vray for Max you can always do like Ronen Bekerman or Peter Guthrie and model in SU and export to Max for rendering.

Edited May 13, 2016 by jansandstrom

[madpencil1]

3D Max anyway. Its more convenient )

[lucascage]

SketchUp is more easy to use, and it can do animation also still image. basically we can get the same result from sketchup and 3Dsmax.

 

Hope it is useful.

[fugglyknuckles]

Sketchup is a toy compared to Max, as someone else mentioned here, it's the exception rather than the rule, Vray in Sketchup is a very basic version, lacking many features, I tried it recently, it was like going back in time and within seconds I was reaching for features that simply aren't there...Sketchups UI could do with some work, it's truly awful, it has features but seems no thought whatsoever has gone into usability and workflow...it needs a decent material editor at the very least.

 

It has a long way to go to catch up with Vray in Max, I'd like to see a stable import export plugin between them both that retains Vray material and render settings...I'm not holding my breath.

 

Learn both, if your interested in the architectural industry you'll need them.

[M V]

First factor would be cost. MAX and VRay is way more expensive than SU and Thea approach (and I agree with Jan on this BTW).

 

Another factor would be how much time you have to learn. The time investment with MAX and VRay could be YEARS before you are producing the stuff you see on the forums and on Ronen's site.

 

I am 100% SketchUp and Thea these days and I use it on a variety of projects. I feel that there are some lacking things when I see whats being done in Max, but I have tried the Max/VRay route and it seems so anti-creative in my opinion. So clunky and not fluid at all. Its all very technical and I can see why rendering nerds love it. All the buttons and dials and settings. Ugh.

 

Depends on the type of artist you are. Look online and on YouTube for StudioJDK. These guys use SU and VRay and Photoshop and create amazing work.

 

FYI - SketchUp is not a "TOY". I think these guys would disagree. I have seen crap renders come out of both programs.

[Shaun Hamm]

I like to do architectural modeling in sketchup, import to max, add any additional entourage models, and then setup all materials, lighting and cameras with vray for max.

[Lewis Garrison]

Once you learn and become completely efficient in both programs (Sketchup + Vray and Max + Vray) The choice is almost always going to be Max over Sketchup. Of course learning both to the same degree isn't the always the case for most.

[jansandstrom]

@ Lewis Garrison

I'm interested in seeing an example of how a good modelling workflow in Max looks.

I've seen different tutorials like these,

but they are way slower than when I model in SketchUp.

I would like to know what you consider the best way of modelling in Max?

[Lewis Garrison]

^^^Nice tutorials. Very detailed.

To be honest my workflow starts out the same for either programs and both take the same amount of time.

I import CAD plans, position elevations if I have them. In Sketchup I trace the plan using the line tool then push pull for walls grouping as I go. In Max I do the same only its the Spline tool and Extrude tool. Punch openings add floor and ceiling then you're on to details.

[SkylineArch]

@ Lewis Garrison

I would like to know what you consider the best way of modelling in Max?

 

I think people who model in Max v. SketchUp are either more comfortable because they started in Max, don't have access to SketchUp (even though the free version works fine with Max, not sure if technically you are supposed to do that with the license though), their pipeline works better modeling in Max, or they just haven't tried to learn SketchUp.

 

But I agree that watching people model architecture in Max is like watching someone model in AutoCAD, painfully slow. Granted, a couple things are easier or best to do in Max, and you should always use the tools that get you the best result the fastest way.

[beestee]

I am most comfortable modeling in Max, but I get around in Sketchup and Revit just fine. I think every one of them has advantages and disadvantages. I do feel that Sketchup workflow is a bit more destructive than either Max or Revit, but that also makes it more lightweight and agile.

[DouonSeuban]

THis thread is nonsensical. Both versions can and do produce nice results. To say one is better, without understanding the context, is absurd.

 

It ultimately comes down to three simple factors:

1. desired geometry styles

2. cost

3. workflow

 

if you're doing primarily computational design, max is your choice (or rhino, or grasshopper, dynamo, paracloud, etc). If you're doing interior residential work, or orthogonal (ie, majority of real-buildings), sketchup is fast enough. If you're comfortable in max, it's not really slower.

 

obvkously, sketchup + vray will be thousands cheaper than the same setup with max, but there's a trade-off in terms of ability to go outside-the-box.

 

if you've never modeled in 3D, sketchup will be quicker. That said, I teach max and rhino to architecture students and can get them up and running in a week. It takes 100s of hours to become a pro, but why are we pu-puing the fact that you cant open a new software and produce Peter Guthrie-esque results in less than a day? ...there's a reason top architectural firms farm out their viz work and it's not because they don't have the software.

 

ULTIMATELY, decide what is important to you and learn the package that suits that need. I remember this debate type for over a decade, maya vs max. max vs rhino. rhino vs formZ, sketchup vs rhino. same deal with renderers....and of course apple vs windows.

 

pick a software. learn it really well. if you reach a point where it's not working for you, supplement it with what you need. continue to learn.

[yukirovchu]

totally agree