Workflow Arch-Viz for Cinema 4D

[andrejcordeiro]

Hello

 

 

I´m a newbie in the Cinema 4D, i´m trying to understand the workflow for arch-viz modelling, since i´m a Studio Max user.

I´m used to to have the 2D Plans in dwg format, prepare them to work in Studio Max environment, and then modelling the architecture model in Studio Max.

 

 

I´m trying to do the same in Cinema 4D, searched for tutorials in youtube, but didn´t found anything similar. Apparently the models are already made in other softwares such as: Archicad, Revit, etc...by the architectures teams.

 

 

So...the question is: What is the best method for creating 3D Arch-Viz in 3D company´s which uses Cinema 4D plus Vray, do you do the hard work such as: Modelling from scratch the Building and then apply the materials inside Cinema 4D, or the model is already made in the other softwares?

[nejck]

Hello!

 

As far as I know the workflow can be pretty much the same. You merge your DWG files into C4D (watch out for it not to create too many objects which clog down the viewport) and start snapping splines / polygons on top of them. If DWGs aren't importing as they should or cause you issues then you can try another format.

 

I usually don't model buildings from scratch so someone else might have a more clearer answer for you in which case my post is a cool topic bump

[andrejcordeiro]

Nejc K, i don´t really have problems in "how to import dwg´s files into C4D", just wanna to know what is the best aproach concerning to work inside C4D.

In your case, you just put the materials in the model, lightning and press render right?

[nejck]

Well uhm, yeah, pretty much what you said.

 

If I start the model from scratch then I do the whole DWG merging thing and if not then I import it using FBX since the models are prepared in 3ds Max. That means I spend some time cleaning the objects so that I can optimize them (weld) and later on bevel them. This can be quite a lengthy process but if you are doing high-res renders it's totally worth it.

 

There is also the xref thing that I like to do. Whenever the model I get from the team is not modeled in its entirety and I want to start lighting it and put materials on it then I just load it into C4D like an xRef. It works with FBX just awesomely and then I just update the file once the team has added something substantial to it - the materials I've applied all stay the same, including the lighting. To me xRef in C4D is super powerful.

 

Then there is the render agnostic stuff you need to do, like export all the needed passes and stuff like that. Once everything is saved and ready I go into Photoshop to run the final mile.

 

I guess it doesn't matter what software you create the models in. The guys I'm working with find 3ds max to be OK for them so they just export the FBXs for me to use. I think Peter Guthrie models everything in Sketchup and then brings it in 3ds max. It's one of those things that are totally up to you and your preference. Personally, since I have a bit more than basic modeling knowledge, I like to keep everything inside C4D. It is the fastest way for me to work. If I was really good at Sketchup and prefered C4Ds rendering abilites then I'd probably want to start in Sketchup.

 

Just beware, if you are working in a studio environment then know that having a good workflow will help you. Exporting files from say SKP to C4D only to realize there is something basic wrong with the model and importing it back to SKP can be really time consuming. Depending on the situation xRef might help you in this kind of a scenario.

 

How about that?

[andrejcordeiro]

Necj, thanks for you insights.

But in my opinion, still doesn´t make any sense to model an object in 3d program so you can export to another 3d program just to render, sounds to me like....extra work of time and resources.

[nejck]

That's kind of pretty much how I think as well but think about it. If you are super proficient in Sketchup and can model a fairly complex building in it in just a few hours compared to modeling it in full old school 3D in c4d then it might be very beneficial To each his own!

[Nicolai Bongard]

I work with 3ds max, but i guess some of the issues apply to cinema 4d as well:

One of the reasons people tend to prefer modeling the building in their own 3d program is because some (a lot of) architects tend to not really be that good at modelling and send over 3d files with errors. When you model the building yourself, you can get the geometry exact and to your own liking. Also, when exported from BIM programs, most of the time the geometry will not be all quads but rather often come with weird distribution of edges and whatnot, wich is suboptimal when you want to subdivide the geometry for displacement. Another thing that can happen when exporting from a BIM program is that either all faces are "loose", so that you have to weld stuff before chamfering corners, or that everything is merged into one object wich can be far from ideal depending on your workflow. But it a lot depends on the person doing the export.

 

I work inhouse at an architects office and we use Archicad (competitor to Revit) then export to 3ds max with vray for rendering. The partners at the firm insists on me using the exported .3ds files from archicad as my geometry for renders, allthough i spend probably more time cleaning up stuff than i would have if i just modeled stuff from scratch.

[Ernest Burden III]

Model in whatever you want. I work with people who model in other programs, or I model things in C4D and send them out. It's fine, there are plenty of ways to send out objects including UV mapping, animation, lights, cameras. However, modeling native in C4D means you can keep some things procedural to allow for client changes.

 

As to the points made about importing DWGs--the process works pretty well, but the DWG importer does not merge objects (by layer, color etc.) so the result is a slow file that often needs to have elements connected. Importing a DXF does merge objects, but ignores blocks. So neither method is perfect. SketchUp import is pretty good, and other, like FBX and now Alembic, are very very good.

 

I sometimes do some modeling and CAD file massaging in my CAD program, but otherwise work fully in Cinema4D and usually render with vray.

 

Works.

[andrejcordeiro]

I work inhouse at an architects office and we use Archicad (competitor to Revit) then export to 3ds max with vray for rendering. The partners at the firm insists on me using the exported .3ds files from archicad as my geometry for renders, allthough i spend probably more time cleaning up stuff than i would have if i just modeled stuff from scratch.

 

 

I had the same issue in a company wich i´ve worked with, it´s very hard to explain to architects who only know "modelling 3d like a pro" through Revit, Archicad...all those issues.

[andrejcordeiro]

As to the points made about importing DWGs--the process works pretty well, but the DWG importer does not merge objects (by layer, color etc.) so the result is a slow file that often needs to have elements connected. Importing a DXF does merge objects, but ignores blocks.

 

 

 

The last few day´s i have been trying to implement the same kind of workflow as i usual do with Studio Max, and yes i´ve noticed that issue, wich is a negative point (in my opinion).

[Ernest Burden III]

The last few day´s i have been trying to implement the same kind of workflow as i usual do with Studio Max, and yes i´ve noticed that issue, wich is a negative point (in my opinion).

 

Using the Layer Manager allows you to 'solo' each layer, which makes selecting the things on it easy, then 'connect and delete'. Or if they come in with materials (often do), you can select each material and then 'select objects' to connect. But watch out for parts that are blocks/Instance objects and their REF objects. You would probably want to connect the parts of the reference, but not kill the Instance structure by connecting them all.

[rhodesy]

What modelling techniques do you guys use in c4d? Spline outlines and lofts and booles or poly modelling with loop cuts and bridging? Also how do you accurately enter line lengths when spline drawing like you would in sketchup or any cad program? I model everything in sketchup these days and import but previously its been archicad and formZ, but always importing and rendering. I would love to model from scratch in c4d though. Its just I would miss the simple tools like push/pull from sketchup which I dont think C4D has. Extrude leaves faces that you dont want and are a pain to clear up.

[Casey Hawley]

What modelling techniques do you guys use in c4d? Spline outlines and lofts and booles or poly modelling with loop cuts and bridging? Also how do you accurately enter line lengths when spline drawing like you would in sketchup or any cad program? I model everything in sketchup these days and import but previously its been archicad and formZ, but always importing and rendering. I would love to model from scratch in c4d though. Its just I would miss the simple tools like push/pull from sketchup which I dont think C4D has. Extrude leaves faces that you dont want and are a pain to clear up.

 

I use all of those techniques, and maybe some others. Whatever seems to be easier to get to the end result I want. I just started learning about spline-patch modeling, even tho C4D doesn't currently support it.

 

I haven't modeled in SketchUp (yet!), so I'm not sure what line lengths are, but when I'm using a spline as the basis to start modeling, it is a simple matter of drawing a loose shape, then massaging the points into place using combo of snapping and manual number entry. In the Position/Size/Rotation XYZ boxes, you can use the plus or minus symbol (after the number already there) for quick accurate changes without having to do a lot of math.

 

The inner faces that Extrude can leave simply means you're not using it correctly. It only happens when Create Caps is ON and you click-drag in the void to extrude. Instead, hold CMD or CTRL and drag the axis handles (you see two little white boxes when pointer is over one of the handles). Even with Caps ON it won't make those inner faces.

 

In terms of modeling buildings, C4D is a bit cumbersome. I am actually planning to learn SketchUp purely for modeling buildings since it is highly focused on this area and, I suspect, will be easier.

[andrejcordeiro]

After all this few months, i can now model an architectural model inside C4D like i do with Studio Max, it´s not complicated at all =D

http://www.cgarchitect.com/2016/10/bergbeiz

Edited October 12, 2016 by andrejcordeiro