Yet another "building a new machine" thread

[unclefarkus]

Hopefully y'all are excited!

 

I work at an architecture firm with a pretty good workstation. It runs a Core i7-3930K CPU and a GTX 770. 16GB RAM and an SSD.

 

But I'm wanting to build a machine for my home that will let me take work home and also just spend more time making things look nice than is usually allowed during business hours.

 

I'm willing to spend some money here and I'd like something faster than the above machine. My main question I keep going back and forth about is whether it is better to go with a machine built for GPU rendering at this point. Vray RT 3.3 seems to have closed the gap a good bit and should only get better in time. Is this true?

 

I was looking at the new GTX 1080 cards, but noticed the 980TI still has more CUDA cores. I was thinking it might be a good idea to get 2 or 3 (maybe eventually 4) of them instead if the price drops. Thoughts? If GPU rendering isn't the way to go, then I'm totally lost on CPU. The one in the machine above still seems to be pretty solid.

 

I should also add that since this will be a personal machine, I'd like to be able to do some gaming maybe. Also VR (both for fun and architecture-related) as a possibility.

 

If somebody could help steer me in a direction, I'd greatly appreciate it

[Nikolaos M]

Gpu power is not just about cuda cores, but the core's architecture too. 1080 is based on Pascal architecture which is newer compared to Maxwell or Kepler, etc. Newer architectures offer better performance per shader unit and better efficiency due to -usually- smaller lithography (gtx 1080 is using 16nm FinFET lithography, while previous top gpus were using 28nm). You should mainly compare Floating Point Performance in TFLOPS (gpu rendering uses Single Precision FP), Pixel Fill Rate and some other features in order to have an idea about its real life performance. We all wait for the first reviews. The 1080 would be better for sure (compared to its predecessors), we just don't know yet how much better.

 

I don't know if gpu rendering would be the best for you. You must search and answer this by yourself. A Workstation destined to perform gpu rendering has a different philosophy compared to a cpu based rendering system. You must decide wisely and orient your system accordingly.

 

And the most important thing, if you want to get some specific answers. How much are you willing to spend for this new WS? Name the budget and you should get good suggestions here.

Edited May 12, 2016 by nikolaosm

[unclefarkus]

Thanks for your response Nikolaos! That's good to know on the Floating Point Performance -- I'm already learning

 

My budget is somewhere between $2500-$3500 at the moment for the tower itself (I have a monitor and peripherals). I'm leaning towards GPU rendering for now but will keep researching! I like the potential of adding cards in time as funds permit to increase performance, so for that, I'd like to find a motherboard with room to grow. I've heard of some having 6 cards I think? I've been watching Stanley Brusse's videos this morning and one thing I picked up on is how the number of Titan X's he's using grows in each video haha. Correct me if I'm wrong, but GPU rendering seems to have more potential for upgrading without adding another box compared to CPU rendering? For example, the machine at work seems pretty much capped out just because processors haven't improved THAT much and this motherboard only supports one. It feels kind of stuck without slaving another box.

 

I'm not an expert as I'm sure it's obvious, but I want to be one day. I'd be okay starting modest, but I want my goals to be high and want a machine that will support my progress. I'm very willing to learn the ins and outs. This next machine will be my first steps in officially positioning myself as the CG/Viz guy at my firm.

 

Thanks again for all help!

[Nikolaos M]

Yes, gpu rendering offers this capability, the potential to gradually add more gpus in your system, and your budget is perfect for creating a very good gpu rendering WS as a base. But that's shouldn't be you primary concern, right now, imo. Is gpu rendering going to do the job for you? You are currently using some cpu renderer, isn't it? How big and complicated are your projects? Are they RAM heavy? Are you using features that some gpu renderers might be lacking?

 

The new 1080 is going to have 8gb of Vram. If you work with large scenes and complicated compositions, then the 8gb could be much less than you need. I would personally wait for the new Pascal Titan version. I suppose it would have more Vram than the 12gb of the previous Titan X had (I have in mind the 24gb version of the M6000, so a semi-professional gpu, like the new Titan, could have anything from 16gb or more).

 

First thing you should do imo is to search about all the gpu renderers that are currently on the market, and see if one of them suits your needs. If you can transfer your current work without many problems, than you could start planning your new system. If you make up your mind and decide to invest in gpu rendering, then you should pick your parts carefully. You need a chassis with good airflow and a big psu with top quality. One of the most important things is to predict the thermal behavior of 3 or 4 gpus stacked on top of each other. The new Pascals are said to have great thermal behavior (the 1080 has 180W tdp I think), but we should wait and see how they behave in real life loads.

 

I hope this helped a little.

[unclefarkus]

Good things to think about!

 

I use Vray 3.3 at work and would keep using that. I usually never mess with GPU rendering at work just because it's slower and I'm not as familiar with it. But I played with it some this afternoon. I rendered the most complex scene I've dealt with to date and it used about half of the 2GB vRAM that our GTX 760 has. But, what felt "complex" to me is probably very simple for others! I've noticed throughout all of my architecture schooling and my experience in the profession that I'm always pushing the hardware to its limits. So, give me a card with 4, 6, or 8gb of vRAM and I'm sure I'd find a way to use it Although I can't say that with certainty as I'm not truly sure what such a complex scene would entail. Stanley Brusse's animations are amazing and he used Titans...if I ever reached that level of quality I'd be impressed, but at the present, I can't see myself rendering something more complex than that.

 

I referred to this page as to the differences between the two and most features I currently use are now compatible:

http://docs.chaosgroup.com/display/VRAY3MAX/V-Ray+RT+Supported+Features

 

And it seems like they're always adding more.

 

PLUS, I'd definitely be getting a CPU that is at least as good, and probably better, than the Core i7-3930K I have at work. So at the very least, I could handle what I already handle. It's a very capable CPU, but it can be slow and it has limits obviously. But I also know there's a lot of room to improve my workflow and efficiency which is part of the motivation for having my own machine. I plan to spend a few evenings each week and parts of my weekends doing online tutorials and lessons. Would rather do this at home than the office

 

Having patience for components is going to tougher than waiting for a rendering to finish lol. I guess I've chosen a good time to do this, but I'm ready to get the ball rolling. Something to look forward to though! Thanks again for your help. Tons to keep thinking about.

[numerobis]

Some FireStrike scores of the GTX 1080 - not bad...

http://videocardz.com/59882/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-3dmark-overclocking-performance

Now we need some GPGPU benches - and a new Titan with 16GB+...

[joelmcwilliam]

You have a good amount of money to spend, so you can go for the highend stuff.

 

Now remember, if you are planning to put a lot of graphics cards into your pc, then your cpu should be strong enough to supply all of those graphics cards with data. Imagine you will be using 4 grahics cards, and graphics cards will be all 4 on full throttle, can you imagine how much data all of those four cards need to process?

 

So, your best option will be to buy the most powerfull cpu you can get your hands on. It has to have a high single core clock speed (modelling and gaming), has to be able to be overclocked and has to have a lot of cores and threads.

 

That will be your base. And from there you can expand.

 

Also remember first you will have to choose the right case in order to accomodate all of that future hardware.

 

It will be a complete custom build so colors and configuration have to match. Lots of planning and research.

[unclefarkus]

So I've spent quite a bit of time researching this weekend and playing with different configurations at PC Parts Picker and here is where I am:

 

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/qV4T4D

 

CPU:

Intel Core i7-5960X 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor

Thermaltake Water 3.0 Ultimate 99.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler

 

Motherboard:

EVGA Classified EATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard

 

*probably the part I'm least confident in just because I've never owned this brand motherboard and see too many mixed reviews on general on this type of component. But this has the best reviews of the expanded ones that I saw

 

GPU:

EVGA GeForce GTX Titan X 12GB Video Card

 

*kind of a placeholder for now; leaning to the GTX 1080...would wait for a new Titan but I'd like to start making stuff in the next month. Starting with 1 GPU for now if I go Titan (2 if I got 1080). It seems like a good place to start.

 

Memory:

Kingston HyperX Fury Black 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory

 

Storage:

Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive

Western Digital BLACK SERIES 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive

 

Case/PSU:

Thermaltake Core X9 ATX Desktop Case

Corsair Professional 1200W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply

 

*This case is yuge! But it seems to have great reviews and a lot of room for expansion. I've also looked into the Corsair Carbide Quiet 600Q as an alternative. It has 8 bays and is not quite as big. Thoughts and feedback and substitutions are more than welcome!

[Nikolaos M]

Since I already have a x99/5960X system running, allow me to suggest some "corrections".

PCPartPicker part list

 

The Phanteks case is compatible with the motherboard, don't worry. It has great airflow and it's very capable of cooling the gpus.

 

Corsair RAM seems to work well with X99 motherboards. Don't go for high frequencies in this WS. Stability is more important. Besides, 2400 with C12 is roughly equivalent with 2800/C16.

[unclefarkus]

OOOO I really like that case. It looks like a modern building in some ways haha.

[unclefarkus]

I'm having trouble finding the Asus X99-E WS Motherboard in stock. It's available in the $700 range from sketchy sites with no return policy. Or used for around $350-ish.

 

Is there another you would recommend? Since it's sold out everywhere, I'm not sure it's still being made.

 

ASUS ROG RAMPAGE V EXTREME/U3.1 LGA 2011-v3 Intel X99 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 Extended ATX Intel Motherboard

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132505&cm_re=asus_x99-_-13-132-505-_-Product

 

that one seems similar, but more geared towards gamers I think. I'm not sure what other alternatives I have. Or if I have to suck it up and pay an inflated price (don't want to do that really)

[Nikolaos M]

How many gpus are you planning to add in the future? A total of 3 or 4? If it's 3, (1 for viewports and 2 for rendering), then there are many good motherboard alternatives with much lower prices. And don't worry about the x8 bandwidth of the second and third gpu. It's enough for rendering.

[unclefarkus]

Well, I'll be starting with 2 GPUs, which I think will be enough for a while. It should give me plenty of room to grow my skills and knowledge at least. And if I end up NEEDING the new Titan, for example, I will only be invested in 2 GPUs rather than 4, so I could sell them and go Titan.

 

Ideally I'd like to be able to upgrade to 4 GPUs, but if 3 is the most, then that isn't the worst. I could always build a second machine (for much less $$$ by the time I'd be doing so I assume) and use it as a node and get to 6 in time. I mean, assuming I end up with a NEED for more than 3 GPUs, it would be a cost that is pretty easy to justify.

 

But I am trying to maximize my spending now by not cutting corners that are necessary. If it makes more sense to do a machine that supports 3 cards, then I am willing to go that route. It would still be a mega beast compared to what I'm using now

[Nikolaos M]

Ok then. The Rampage V is a fine piece of hardware. I had the previous one (IV) and now a relative of mine has the V. I had some problems with a memory kit and I was impressed by the way this motherboard led us to safe conclusions about the faulty module. You have a x16/x8/x8/x8 capability with 4 gpus which is more than enough. It's one of the best (if not the best) motherboards for oc too. With a good AIO like the Kraken X61 you should be able to reach 4.2-4.3 with the 5960X very easily.

 

My opinion is you should definitely wait for the new 1080's. They seam to have incredible performance per Watt and that's something you should care about when configuring a gpu rendering rig. A high quality 1200-1300W psu could easily handle 4 of 1080, while 4 Titans would probably need a 1500-1600W psu for safe operation. The temps would be much lower too with a group of 1080s vs Titan Xs.

 

Here is an updated list PCPartPicker part list

Edited May 17, 2016 by nikolaosm

[numerobis]

So I've spent quite a bit of time researching this weekend and playing with different configurations at PC Parts Picker and here is where I am:

 

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/qV4T4D

 

--> Broadwell-E (6800K, 6850K, 6900K, 6950X)

Edited May 17, 2016 by numerobis

[Nikolaos M]

I just want to see how the new chips overclock first. If they are decent, then they should be the best option. If not (like their s1150 smaller "brothers"), then the 5960X would still be my first choice (especially a well preserved second hand chip with warranty left) . The average oc for 5960X with a max vcore of 1.3V is 4.5GHz. I want to see how the 6900K (the 8core equivalent) competes to that. The 2-3% ipc improvement wouldn't be enough to close the gap if the average oc is lower by 200MHz or more. And of course, thermal behavior is another factor.

 

Anyway, it would be best for Adam to wait for the new cpus to be released. The first reviews should be revealing and a final decision would be easier.

 

The gtx 1080's reviews I saw today were very impressive but they had to do with benchmarks and games mostly. I was a bit disappointed with max temps, but I suppose the custom versions should be much better in this field as always. It'll take a while for various CG software to fully absorb the new gpu technology, but I sense that we'll see some impressive numbers after a few months.

[unclefarkus]

I feel like I'm at a yellow light where I can either stop and wait, or speed up and go!

 

But it does seem like waiting would be the smartest idea. I've seen new motherboards, CPUs, and of course non-founders GPU's within the past day or so... it's exciting!

 

But it just stinks because right now I have the free time to really sink my teeth into everything. That won't be the case when fall rolls around.... so I'm not sure what I'll do. I'll at least wait until Computex 2016. But I'll probably wait a bit.

[unclefarkus]

What is the opinion on 4k monitors? I currently use a 2560x1440 monitor at work and it is good. But I am now debating whether to go with an ultrawide 4k monitor. But I don't want my monitor to detract from the machine's performance in a way that outweighs the good things a 4k monitor would bring to the table. Any thoughts?

 

I'm looking at this one mainly, which I guess isn't a 4k monitor after further investigation. But it does seem more ideal than 2 monitors (less clutter and such)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01B9IDL4I/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=TBG930GLODDR&coliid=I333JDESS8X17P&psc=1

Edited May 21, 2016 by unclefarkus

[joelmcwilliam]

For gaming an ultra wide uhd curved monitor is great. For productivity its better to have a flat screen because you wont get the slight distortion a smaller curved monitor gives you. I would prefer a >40 inch uhd flat monitor for productivity and gaming. Lots of workspace for productivity and the in game feeling during gaming.

 

Don't have to be expensive. Have a look at the philips. Teksyndicate did a review about a korean 40 inch 4k. Check it out. Or check out other monitors, like the wasabi mango. 4k uhd does require a good amount of gpu power while gaming. Don't go for 2 monitors, because of that annoying bezel.

[unclefarkus]

Thanks!

 

I ended up ordering this bad boy for $400.

 

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-27-ips-led-4k-uhd-freesync-monitor/4922001.p?id=bb4922001&skuId=4922001

 

The mount seems pretty crappy, but it has a vesa mount, so I'll be doing an alternative mount (maybe wall mounted?). Just thought I'd share! It has great overall reviews and for the price...it's cheaper than the Asus 2560x1440 we have at work.

 

[Nikolaos M]

I think this post comes too late... If you go for 27" the best resolution is 2560x1440 (like the one you have at work). I still think it's very early to go to 4K monitors for work and especially gaming. If I decided to buy a 4K monitor it would certainly be 32" or bigger and I would first try to be sure if everything I wanted to do with it can really work. Not all software are optimized for 4K the time we speak.

 

A 27" at 4K would probably be very-very difficult to work with due to pixel density.

 

These would be my first picks:

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/part/dell-monitor-u2717d

https://pcpartpicker.com/part/hp-monitor-d7p92a8aba

[unclefarkus]

Thanks for all the help in this thread! I have built my machine and am learning Vray with the 5SRW technique. I ended up getting a couple Titan X's gently used on Ebay for around $550-600 and am very happy with how things are running. The temperatures are so cool too! And the machine is nearly silent. Great build and recommendations all around -- I think it will serve me well as I get serious about things!

 

Also, I'm pretty happy with the monitor...especially for the price. With the release of Autodesk 2017 products, they now look fantastic in 4k and Vray 3.4 released just 2 days ago to support 2017... so perfect timing!

 

Thanks again to Nikolaos and all the others who helped me figure it all out. Now is the fun part to use it