mickeymouse1 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Hello guys! I've tried any possible combo in vray settings in the last few days. I just can't get this damn noise to disappear. I started to notice this noise after updating to 3.30.05. On the wall (the circled area) I have no reflection so no subdivs required there - that's to rule out bad materials. I tried to introduce more light sources - the noise becomes less but is still there. Increased light subdivs to a whapping 256 but same result - I usually had them at 64. I am running out of ideas. Hope you can help. P.S.: the noise appears to be in the v-ray lighting pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris MacDonald Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 10 max subdivisions isn't much on the image sampler. Presumably if you have a "sample rate" element, it all shows up red? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeymouse1 Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Thank you for the reply. I'll render a sample rate element tonight and see if there's a problem. How many subdivs would you suggest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris MacDonald Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Enough to get rid of the noise 12 to 24 should usually be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeymouse1 Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Unfortunatelly, the improvement was not very substantial. I used 24. Should I go even higher? I'm afraid of very high render times. I'm uploading a region render with its lighting and samplerate passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris MacDonald Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Wait, that first image you posted was zoomed in 200%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeymouse1 Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Wait, that first image you posted was zoomed in 200%? Yes. Sorry not mentioning it :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris MacDonald Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Well then you're going to see noise. At 100% there is no noise - certainly none worth getting upset about. It's worth noting that you are using a sharpening filter, which will always exaggerate noise (and generally look poor anyway). The area filter, or VRayLanczos filter will do a much better job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeymouse1 Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Well then you're going to see noise. At 100% there is no noise - certainly none worth getting upset about. It's worth noting that you are using a sharpening filter, which will always exaggerate noise (and generally look poor anyway). The area filter, or VRayLanczos filter will do a much better job. The noise is there, even at 100%. That's how I saw it in the first place - it's pretty obvious at the border between shadows and light. I am using catmull rom filter because I found it to be more appropriate for archviz - it's sharpening the details really good. So bottom line, there's no way getting rid of the noise with this filter... Thank you for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeymouse1 Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Well then you're going to see noise. At 100% there is no noise - certainly none worth getting upset about. It's worth noting that you are using a sharpening filter, which will always exaggerate noise (and generally look poor anyway). The area filter, or VRayLanczos filter will do a much better job. Just tested it with Area filter. Same-ish result. It's driving me insane.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic H Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 looks like you are using old vray. install the new vray 3.4 and give the denoiser element a go. perfect for these situations why use a sharpening filter in render? lancoz / area / quadratic are good filters, you can always sharpen later on if its not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeymouse1 Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 looks like you are using old vray. install the new vray 3.4 and give the denoiser element a go. perfect for these situations why use a sharpening filter in render? lancoz / area / quadratic are good filters, you can always sharpen later on if its not right. Didn't know vray 3.4 was out. Will give it a try. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris MacDonald Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Next time be sure to zoom in to 1600% just to make sure you got all the noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Schroeder Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Next time be sure to zoom in to 1600% just to make sure you got all the noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzycabari Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Well then you're going to see noise. At 100% there is no noise - certainly none worth getting upset about. It's worth noting that you are using a sharpening filter, which will always exaggerate noise (and generally look poor anyway). The area filter, or VRayLanczos filter will do a much better job. Can't agree with that, if it's that obvious at 200%, it will surely be seen at 100% also. I notice that your noise Is at the area where light hits the ceiling and wall, shadow-ish area is quite clean, try to up on light samples, even up to 256 if needed and/or reduce intensity a bit, maybe that will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francisco Penaloza Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Light noise is always samples. Going back to the basics and understanding how VRay works, you have two main options, how many samples you have and a color/noise threshold to control how many samples you use. There are several tutorial online talking about this; but in resume after you isolate the pass that is being affected by lack of samples (noise) you can decide if you need more samples or lower your color threshold to use the maximum of samples or not. How you know what to do? Use the sample rate pass, This heat map will tell you if you are using all your samples or not. if everything is blue and you render finished then you didn't use all samples. in this case if image sill with noise, then you lower your color threshold. If your image is red, and you still have noise, then you need more samples, how many? Well until image is clean or until everything is blue and in that case you lower your color threshold again. Rinse and repeat. Having said all these, there is some acceptable noise,always, even in photography so is up to you to decide what you want/need, perfect clean image or some noise that nobody will see or care. If you want perfect clean image, then set your noise threshold to 0.0 and just worry how many samples you put on them until you get a clean image. But of course render time will be longer. Things to consider: - Your GI settings have not much use in this case. you could get less noise of course if your interior has more lights, but GI wise is not affecting much that noise. - Image size, will affect the behavior of noise over all, when more pixels the sampler will work better, tho this will give you longer render time because more pixels so choose wisely - Vlado mentioned several times that the recommended filter for still image and most animation is VRayLanczos, this filter help the noise threshold. Sharpening images on render time used to be useful long time ago when we only could output 800x600 pixels, nowadays when you render 5K or more, over sharpening image with those filter is not need it, just add render time with not real benefits. Depending how many lights you have in the scene probabilistic light will increase your noise, or won't do anything. If you have less than 16 (default) it wont affect your scene at all. If you are using 'old style sampling' this mean using separate samples for materials and lights then your min shading rate wont affect your scene. Using 128 or 256 samples for lights or glossy reflections is not strange for this old method. Your initial sample value still can be pushed even more. If you go with the new universal method, then using a combo of minimum shade rate and AA samples/ noise threshold will be the way to go. Of course with the latest release of VRay and the great denoiser pass, all these mambo jambo can be almost forgotten, just get the image good enough and fix it in post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic H Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 there is no light or material subdivs setting since 3.3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonm Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 i found a noise culprit in my renders when i ticked 'detail enhancement' - i see that you havent ticked it but just making sure.... stay cool and have a seedless watermelon -|- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris MacDonald Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Can't agree with that, if it's that obvious at 200%, it will surely be seen at 100% also. You must really hate the quality you get in real life from a camera then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzycabari Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 You must really hate the quality you get in real life from a camera then! Don't get that analogy, why would you render with noise if you have a choise not to? And noise he had wasn't like you have on photos, it was caused by some mistake in the settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francisco Penaloza Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 there is no light or material subdivs setting since 3.3... Yes they still there, but they look gray out because the 'use local subdivs' check box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andres Saarnak Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Don't get that analogy, why would you render with noise if you have a choise not to? And noise he had wasn't like you have on photos, it was caused by some mistake in the settings. Because time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzycabari Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Because time? That argument is becoming pointless, yes, if you can't afford longer rendertimes, then it's okay. In this example not the worst noise scenario i'v seen, but a lot of the times, at the right settings, scene without noise renders faster than the one with noise. And original poster didn't say that he was in a hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andres Saarnak Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 That argument is becoming pointless, yes, if you can't afford longer rendertimes, then it's okay. In this example not the worst noise scenario i'v seen, but a lot of the times, at the right settings, scene without noise renders faster than the one with noise. And original poster didn't say that he was in a hurry. If time is not important- why would anybody use old methods anyway? Just go with a new vray defaults and you have basically 2 settings to change- no point in spending time changing every subdivs to its perfect value- just let it cook more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackarnold Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 In your settings you have "Use local subdivs" checked under Global DMC. This means that your having to put in all the samples for materials and lights instead of just letting vray work out what's best. So either raise the light samples or turn of use local subdivs and lower the colour threshold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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