Hourly rates...$13/hr! Come on....

[davidpaslay]

Hello, I'm relatively a newbie to the CG world and I'm interested in pursuing it as a slight turn in my career, with my interactive design background. I'm about to build a portfolio of work and eventually would like to work remotely when I get enough clients.

 

I was looking at rates people offer around the world and got really bummed out. Some guy in India was charging $13/hour for some really beautiful render work. Is the industry being outsourced to a point of no return? How would I make a living at this?

 

My idea is to combine my interactive skills with my 3D rendering skills to show large scale interactive experiences (what I used to do at an agency).

[simonm]

Hi David

 

I used to feel the same - although you shouldnt let that worry you. If youre good at what you do and your client recognises that, then you will be paid accordingly. I always say, you charge whatever your time is worth to YOU. Dont worry about others. So if he wants to charge $13 an hour - good on him. I have dealt with outsourcing and let me tell you its much more trouble than its worth. Professional people/companies need instant feedback/iterations and of course, some recommendations, you wont get much of that when you outsource - its pretty much black and white. This is through my own experience of course. So.... all in all... dont worry, do what you love.... love what you do and everything else will work itself out.

 

Over and out.

 

Hello, I'm relatively a newbie to the CG world and I'm interested in pursuing it as a slight turn in my career, with my interactive design background. I'm about to build a portfolio of work and eventually would like to work remotely when I get enough clients.

 

I was looking at rates people offer around the world and got really bummed out. Some guy in India was charging $13/hour for some really beautiful render work. Is the industry being outsourced to a point of no return? How would I make a living at this?

 

My idea is to combine my interactive skills with my 3D rendering skills to show large scale interactive experiences (what I used to do at an agency).

[davidpaslay]

I agree! Nice...thx

[Scott Schroeder]

Yep. We had a client who laughed at our "US" prices and said that they would much rather prefer a cheaper outsource option. We tried to talk them out of it and said that often times what you see on their portfolio is not a reflection of their lower hourly rate work. 2 months later, the same client comes back to us and asks us if we have time to re-do the renders as everyone hated them and they were far more troublesome to receive than just working with people in the states.

 

Outsourcing is a great option, but you need to invest in it. It's not some magical land where render elves create dreams. If you have a job that takes 20 hours, you need to invest at least 10 of your own time into managing that outsource company. The companies that tell you all they need is a file and in 8 hours you'll have your render back, those guys are the ones to watch out for.

 

Do not compete with the low cost rendering houses. The clients that gravitate towards the low end shops are clients you don't want to work for in the first place.

[beestee]

The clients that gravitate towards the low end shops are clients you don't want to work for in the first place.

 

The problem with this approach to the market is that the amount of high-volume low-cost opportunities a far more abundant. We simply adjust to offer a product closer to what budget-conscious clients are looking for instead of pushing a high-end product for every scenario, and in effect pushing a vast majority of potential clients away.

 

$13/hr is an abstract metric. How many hours are needed? If you get me a semi-decent sketchup or revit model, I can produce decent renderings in 1-3 hours, depending on the number of unique materials, lighting conditions and such. If the client is paying $13/hr and ultimately ends up paying $100 for a rendering, that same opportunity in my circumstances could pay as well as $100/hr.

[Scott Schroeder]

I prefer to look at in like Mike Monteiro looks at things. What's the value of the rendering to them? Change them on the value of the rendering, not the time it takes to complete the rendering. If that hundred dollar rendering is going to sell a million dollar home, then the value of the rendering needs to be adjusted. Clearly if they are selling million dollar homes, then they are not on the street corner with a tin cup begging for capitol to pay you. If the render is just for an internal meeting during the design phase, and chances are high for massive changes and that rendering will never be public, then sure the value of that render is lower. However, that doesn't mean that it should be the lowest of low value. Hell, even if the render is just for a competition for a building it still carries a decent value.

 

There are lower cost needs, but at some point you have to stop and realize you are worth more than that and you have to let that job opportunity go. There is no point in working for a pittance if the power to render costs more than you are bringing in. There is more to it that just quoting a number so you can keep your lights on, ie the "just covering my ass rate".

 

The profit margin for real estate in most places is astounding. So when the client looks at you with puppy dog eyes and says, "Oh woe is my plight. I can only afford to pay you a small fee or else my children will not be able to afford to buy bread with their water." You really need to say, "That's okay Client Guy, I'll pass. My time is valuable to me and to you, so I need to be fairly compensated for it. Thank you for your time."

 

I can't go into Morton's Steakhouse and say, "Meh, this is the same steak that Outback charges $9 for. Gimme that price." Ditto in walking into the Ferrari dealership and saying, "Meh. It's a car. It has 4 wheels, an engine, and a steering wheel like the $800 used Yugo down the street, so gimme that price." So why in the sam hell do we allow clients to do it to us?

 

Rant over.

[Devin Johnston]

$13/hr is a lot of money in China and India so it depends on where in the world your working and how much experience you have. Some people in the US think that someone flipping burgers should earn $15/hr, not exactly a high skilled job so you can see how location is a big factor.

[MarcellusW]

Not rant, but, being properly tailored for an actual client, a very good line of reasoning I will steal for bargaining.

[MarcellusW]

I am curious, does copyright and intellectual property have any value in this conversation?

 

Dealing with say China, is your design properly protected? Are those charging low rates actually purchasing their render toolset? Is it reasonable to expect you can recover damages through the local authorities in the event there is a problem?

[arseniytestin]

A good long term goal is to create actual human relations with the clients.

 

When they can see your real worth as person and as artist, then the money you charge them is no longer a concern: they will gladly pay for both quality And psychological comfort. Be a strong, self confident, humanly rich artist and your clients will never even think of saving some bucks on a cheap outsource. They actually end up suggesting you to Raise prices, if they see that quality overreaches the cost)) They get attached to You.

 

I totally see the problem of getting those clients first, the first bite. Well, here you can only rely on the quality of your portfolio. Charge accordingly, ignore completely the competitors from wildly different Countries and markets. Let the Karma work.

 

In Germany and England, where I do most work, fairly ordinary render guys charge (and get) 300€ per day. And 16 h are usually plenty, for one person, to finish easily a small architectural or advertising shot. So 600€ sell effortlessly a good render. And with mega masters charging as much as 5.000€ per shot, you can easily figure out your own niche and rate) Besides, cheap prices attract cheap clients, that will wreck your nerves and downgrade your portfolio.

 

May you find soon your perfect clients! Viel Glück!

[M V]

You get what you pay for, bottom line! The images on their website may not even be there renderings. We have all seen images stolen from people in this site being used to promote these back alley rendering operations.

 

Offer great customer service and a good product and people will pay. Look at Apple and Starbucks. People pay for quality in a brand they trust.

 

Make that brand.

[harryhirsch]

'''Some guy in India was charging $13/hour for some really beautiful render work. Is the industry being outsourced to a point of no return? How would I make a living at this?''''...do you live in India?

BTW: 13 USD=11 Euro, a lot of freelancers work for this amount even in West-Europe.

''In Germany and England, where I do most work, fairly ordinary render guys charge (and get) 300€ per day'' Not all of them..not in Berlin and London! Young architects in charge 15-20 Euros, experienced Architects 30-40...architecture students work for 3-8 Euros an hour.

''''Change them on the value of the rendering, not the time it takes to complete the rendering. If that hundred dollar rendering is going to sell a million dollar home, then the value of the rendering needs to be adjusted.''''.... Investors think in a different way ala ''The design sells the million dollar home-not the rendering. The rendering can be done by a lot of firms in 2-3 days. Why should we pay them more? Its a free market system. etc''...We have to educate our future clients...there should be some kind of archviz-chamber like the architects have.

[Ernest Burden III]

If you get me a semi-decent sketchup or revit model...

 

Does this ever actually happen?

 

... Investors think in a different way ala ''The design sells the million dollar home-not the rendering...

 

Then why buy renderings at all? Useless expense. It's true that clients think its the design that sells, but funny, buyers can't understand the design without them.

[beestee]

Does this ever actually happen?

 

I have biased expectations for what I will accept and what I myself will send out for others to use. I personally would not be comfortable sending out a majority of the models that I have used in these situations for use in rendering...but these models are nearly always a byproduct of assets used to fill some other purpose, so scrutinizing them as a model made for photographic rendering does little good.

 

I feel that it is important to promote the idea that there is value in creating a 3d model for every project, because it indirectly promotes the visualization industry.

 

ValeroStudio hit the nail on the head. You get what you pay for. I am not philanthropist, giving out Ferrari's at Yugo prices, more like a Mercedes dealership with a used lot that has the odd Civic scattered here and there, I'm here to sell what's on the lot, and if I can determine that a client has more to work with, you bet I am aiming to upsell when it seems possible.