Freelancer

[komyali]

Hello guys, long time no see I want now to be a freelancer Just over night I figured out that I have spare time. Long time ago I hear about Elance, but today I wanted to register and saw a bunch of freelance sites. So I am not sure witch one is best for freelancing? I am architect 3d modeler, render, BIM, animation maker, experimenting with VR and lot of other stuff. Can somebody tell me what is at this moment good for me and what should I look for. Also Elance and upwork looks like same thing?

[Francisco Penaloza]

Just my opinion about those 'Freelancing websites'

If you can afford to charge bottom price, then it may help you. if you have some dignity left, it will be a waste of time.

Better promote yourself other ways.

In this mere website there are lots of thread talking about this.

best luck.

[komyali]

dignity left well bro I dont live in america If I can do work in america I would proboably not do freelancing Can you please post that threads, looks like I am searching on wrong places?

[innerdream]

dignity left well bro I dont live in america If I can do work in america I would proboably not do freelancing Can you please post that threads, looks like I am searching on wrong places?

 

I have been on Elance and Upwork, Elance is now Upwork and also on Freelancer. You will bid against guys that charge as low as $3.00 an hour USD. Sometimes clients will pick better quality at a higher rate but mostly it is bottom feeders looking for the cheapest freelancer with decent work.

 

Can I see your work?

[Francisco Penaloza]

dignity left well bro I dont live in america If I can do work in america I would proboably not do freelancing Can you please post that threads, looks like I am searching on wrong places?

 

ha ha ha Oh buddy let me tell you, USA is not what you see on TV, we are struggling here too.

I have a full time job and also freelance. I know I am not the only one, doing arch viz here in USA won't pay for a fancy car and easy life. far far from that.

Actually I really dislike those freelancing websites, they killed my business when I used to work solo time ago.

With the economic crisis and the bum of those websites, people here forgot about crafting and they just when for the cheapest.

Most of them came back when quality was need it, but 'good enough' become a norm here in USA. pretty sad.

[komyali]

Hey Robert, doing my online portfolio, I will post it when I finish.

Well what do you think about 200 euros for 4 renders? That is how here work... I dont do that cheap, but I know people do that with medium quality. So I hope now you understand why I like america but from this place, here is also everything cheaper except white tehnic

 

Man 3 $ hour, well I aint going to be that cheap under 30 I wont talk.

Edited September 20, 2016 by komyali

[innerdream]

Hey Robert, doing my online portfolio, I will post it when I finish.

Well what do you think about 200 euros for 4 renders? That is how here work... I dont do that cheap, but I know people do that with medium quality. So I hope now you understand why I like america but from this place, here is also everything cheaper except white tehnic

 

Man 3 $ hour, well I aint going to be that cheap under 30 I wont talk.

 

You won't get any work on a freelance site for $30.00 an hour. There are a minimum of 50 bidders on almost every single Archviz job and most are around $10.00 an hour. The "good" jobs that I have got off those sites pay about $12.00 to $15.00 an hour closer to $12.00 most of the time.

[komyali]

and how much hours you spent on 3D, lets say main room 30 square meters, 4 renderers from each angle? You destroy my dream

[innerdream]

and how much hours you spent on 3D, lets say main room 30 square meters, 4 renderers from each angle? You destroy my dream

 

Usually they are flat fees for Archviz on those sites. People are doing renderings for $50.00, $100.00 a lot of the time. A couple of years ago I got a series of 5 houses for a home builder, I got $475.00 each and they took over 30 hours each...not very good. You can figure you'll make about $10.00 to $13.00 an hour on those sites as an average.

 

To answer your question I use an unbiased render engine so my render times are easily 10 hours for an interior and I spend about 20 to 30 hours for a single room. I NEVER get interior jobs there because my rates are too high.

 

Here's a typical listing on Upwork their budget $200.00

Details

 

We are renovating a building and need to make the exterior more appealing. We are looking for someone to come up with an exterior design (rendering) using the existing structure by adding features (i.e., awning, alternative materials, etc. We are looking for a modern but industrial feel to the building. We would like 3 concepts for the face of the building. Once we determine the face of the building, finishing the design for the 3 street facing sides.

 

Would need to use materials which are commonly available within the United States.

Edited September 20, 2016 by innerdream

[komyali]

450 euros for exterior house is not that bad for 3,5 days... but from my standing point. In america and western europe its nothing. What happen guys why 3d industry went so low? Where can you get more money? Animation, VR? What site would you reccomend to me, where is most people, i would like to try?

[innerdream]

450 euros for exterior house is not that bad for 3,5 days... but from my standing point. In america and western europe its nothing. What happen guys why 3d industry went so low? Where can you get more money? Animation, VR? What site would you reccomend to me, where is most people, i would like to try?

 

It went so low because everyone stole 3DS Max and Vray and saturated the market with low cost talent, that and everyone graduating Architecture school now can do 3D. There's not much money in this field unless you're one of the big players, personally I'm trying to get out of the Architecture field all together.

 

There's no money in VR from what I have seen, clients want VR for the same cost as still images and it's a lot of work to use something like Unreal Engine.

 

Try Freelancer and Upwork you'll see what we're talking about.

 

This guy charges $11.00 an hour, that's going to be your competition. Some for the same price are better!

Edited September 20, 2016 by innerdream

[SkylineArch]

if you have some dignity left, it will be a waste of time.

 

hahaha, nice!

[danielwebb]

I also looked at using Elance but as mentioned previously the rates people charge make it well not worth my time. You have to remember that the majority of clients that are looking for designers on sites like that have small budgets and are looking for a steal. You'd get a better hourly rate working at Mcdonalds.

[westillustration]

My housekeeper charges $25/hr and doesn't have a high school education. My gardener charges $22 hr and any laborer that I hire to do even the most menial work gets paid better than a CG artist on a freelance site. You will never be able to survive on what they pay. This has been a race to the bottom for years now. While I do agree that the flood of CG artists has driven the price down I also blame the recession. During that period everyone kept lowering their prices to try to stay in business. The architects and developers got very used to getting these images for next to nothing. It is very hard to raise prices when the perception is that our work should be done for free.

[Nic H]

I use Upwork to outsource work and have good results (once I stopped going for the lowest price...)

In the last month I have had 3 jobs done from architectural remodeling of rhino files to clean max files with unwrapped UVWS, 2700 frames of roto and some detailed zbrush sculpting. There are very talented people on there you just need to pay a decent price, treat them well by giving very concise and detailed feedback and dont expect miracles.

 

For the 2700 frames of 4K keying / roto local costs were around $7000 AUD. I put it on Upwork and had it done to the same standard for $1500 AUD within a week. I was getting people bidding $300 on this which I thought was way to low for the quality I wanted so you need to do some thorough checking of folios and pay attention to their 'application letter' generally the ones asking specific questions are better.

 

I think outsourcing is great especially for tasks that are more clear cut like modelling, roto, plate clean up, unwrapping - things that can definitively said to be right or wrong.

[aristocratic3d]

You would not be able to earn that much if people in the third world could speak like you with perfect accent. ha ha.

But people here can create renderings like you do.

Francisco and Robert are accurate regarding the freelance websites and what happens. On those sites I was paid a lot more for doing voice overs than I did for much more technical/creative work involving 3d rendering/animation...insane.

[heni30]

I use Upwork to outsource work and have good results (once I stopped going for the lowest price...)

In the last month I have had 3 jobs done from architectural remodeling of rhino files to clean max files with unwrapped UVWS, 2700 frames of roto and some detailed zbrush sculpting. There are very talented people on there you just need to pay a decent price, treat them well by giving very concise and detailed feedback and dont expect miracles.

 

For the 2700 frames of 4K keying / roto local costs were around $7000 AUD. I put it on Upwork and had it done to the same standard for $1500 AUD within a week. I was getting people bidding $300 on this which I thought was way to low for the quality I wanted so you need to do some thorough checking of folios and pay attention to their 'application letter' generally the ones asking specific questions are better.

 

I think outsourcing is great especially for tasks that are more clear cut like modelling, roto, plate clean up, unwrapping - things that can definitively said to be right or wrong.

 

Is there a communication problem when you want to make changes?

 

Do you select people from a particular country? (Like India for instance - because they speak English)

 

Any strategies to weed out competent from incompetent?

Edited October 2, 2016 by heni30

[innerdream]

Is there a communication problem when you want to make changes?

 

Do you select people from a particular country? (Like India for instance - because they speak English)

 

Any strategies to weed out competent from incompetent?

 

I think it will be pretty obvious to you who is competent when you see their work. Things to look for, client feedback, education, portfolio. I believe there is a test for English so you can look to see if they took that as well.

 

You guys have proved my point though that the cheap freelancers on these sites make it difficult for people that do not live in the 3rd world, but that's business.

[heni30]

Actually, there are some really good people who charge $20 - $25/ hr. If you had them do a generic living room that took 2 days that's

16 x $25 = $400. You would still be ahead of the game and they would be making a decent wage.

 

Good people who are cheap will be too busy - they can't do it or you risk missing your deadline.

 

I keep getting distracted by the exotic "Fatma" from Turkey and the sensual "Kristine" from Latvia.

 

They are probably these big unshaven burly guys.

[innerdream]

Actually, there are some really good people who charge $20 - $25/ hr. If you had them do a generic living room that took 2 days that's

16 x $25 = $400. You would still be ahead of the game and they would be making a decent wage.

 

Good people who are cheap will be too busy - they can't do it or you risk missing your deadline.

 

I keep getting distracted by the exotic "Fatma" from Turkey and the sensual "Kristine" from Latvia.

 

They are probably these big unshaven burly guys.

 

Most clients on Upwork are not paying $20.00 per hour, $10.00 and under seems to be the norm. Are you saying to farm out your own work to Upwork? maybe I misunderstood.

[heni30]

No - I'm just saying in theory someone could do that.

 

I could see farming out modeling work if you don't have the time to do it.

[innerdream]

Yes, there are a few rendering companies that do that there. They are places that charge like $500.00 for an exterior and farm out some or all of the work.

[atiqursumon]

If you listen my suggestion soo i telling you , going to the adobe Photoshop remove background service because this is the best marketplace now.

[heni30]

I just tried out an architect in the Ukraine via Upwork who was charging $10/hr for modeling services. She did it in 5 hours - a small isolated bank (all 4 sides) with some curves and slopes (not at all a plain box) and parking.

 

She was super cordial, smart and very conscientious. Had it done the next day.

 

Out of curiosity I contacted a guy who charges $33.33/hour who does really nice work. He said if he's given a good model to work with he'll charge $100 per view to do a rendering. This is from his website:

 

$50 + $100 = $150 for a top tier rendering. I don't know - maybe he's an unreliable prima donna who's difficult to work with but that is pretty amazing.

 

Upwork also has a freelancer's "diary". You, the client, click on it and you see screen shots (taken every 15 minutes) of your freelancer's work computer (via an app they have to install) so you you can see where they're at and how they're progressing. Probably pretty soon they'll require freelancers to wear a metal headband that gives you an electrical shock if you're away from your computer for more than 5 minutes.

 

I was very impressed with the website's slickness and the ease of use.

Edited October 5, 2016 by heni30

[innerdream]

I just tried out an architect in the Ukraine who was charging $10/hr for modeling services. She did it in 5 hours - a small isolated bank with some curves and slopes (not at all a plain box) and parking.

 

She was super cordial, smart and very conscientious. Had it done the next day.

 

Out of curiosity I contacted a guy who charges $33.33/hour who does really nice work. He said if he's given a good model to work with he'll

charge $100 per view to do a rendering.

 

$50 + $100 = $150 for a top tier rendering. I don't know - maybe he's a unreliable prima donna who's difficult to work worth but that is pretty amazing.

 

Precisely why I am leaving the Architecture field. I make less now than I did when I was in my 20's, I'm in my 50's.