Freelancer

[Francisco Penaloza]

I don't know man, there is something here that leave me a bitter flavor in my mouth.

It is not all about money, That's why our Business is treated this way, that's why ours and other similar business lose the respect for the craft, it became "just a click button solution" for the bottom price.

Long time ago, Architects and Render artist where respected for what they did, yes there was competition for prices but now is totally out of control.

If you where happy charging $100, and client understood that, they knew that if they wanted a nice image, they had to pay $100 dollars, today some one does it for $90 so you go to $70 then they find some one who does if for $50 and to not loose the client you hire some one who does it for $5 and you charge $15??? I understand free commerce and all that but. really!, that's why we have As@!@# controlling all our commerce, no respect whatsoever for people, Who cares if there are starving children digging for Diamonds or Lithium, as long as I can have the best Phone here, I don't care. Who cares the people are jumping out of factories to get a decent insurance pay for their families, as long I get my latest electronics... I don't care. I don't see them, my manufacturer tell me they are not responsible, because is not their company, but a "third party" a contractor.

 

Imagine if you don't bend backward for the clients and he understand that it is $100 dollars. You make $100, some one in Indian family person make $100, some one in Ukraine Dude make $100. can you image how better we all would be?? we wouldn't have to sacrificing our families crossing the ocean for a better future. I don't think so.

 

All this BS of open market and globalization is one way income. it does not work both way, poor people get more poor, rich people get more rich. And when you are in the good side, you see that you can jump in and save a few extra a bucks. you do it any ways, when you where part of the complaining group a few years ago when all our industry was falling to the bottom.

 

My opinion, I post it here for what it worth, I know I am not the only one who think this way. hopefully. It is not all about money,

not that I have much, I am the only income for my family, we struggle from time to time, but I respect my self, I try to tech my children to be good and think about other people, everything we do has a consequence. there is not rock we trow that won't his some one else or disturb something, is not all about me, it is about US.

[heni30]

I frankly felt embarrassed to be paying this architect such a low salary and am going to pay her more.

 

Another point is that you don't find that kind of enthusiastic service provided here locally. Instantaneous responses, ready to start then and there, has it finished ready for comments the next morning, fast worker and very skilled. You sense this gratefulness to just have work.

Edited October 5, 2016 by heni30

[komyali]

man i still didnt create account

[innerdream]

As someone that has been in the Architecture field 40 years I have seen the writing on the wall. The Architects that are now farming out 3D work in the USA to the lowest bidder are going to be impacted the same way as the 3D artist - it's happening already. I see on Upwork people asking for entire houses, working drawings etc. for $1,000.00 and less. The genie is out of the bottle.

 

It's very difficult to reverse these trends if not impossible, as another poster to the thread pointed out, out sourcing is here to stay. I for one am very disappointed all the years I have spent in the field are essentially lost as I have to start over, but that's life so I suck it up and look to the future. I will not make the same mistake and venture into a field that can be outsourced to someone that makes $5.00 a day though.

[Nic H]

Is there a communication problem when you want to make changes?

 

Do you select people from a particular country? (Like India for instance - because they speak English)

 

Any strategies to weed out competent from incompetent?

 

no strategies you wouldn't employ in a normal interview. check their work, check their feedback, have a quick chat about job specifics and see if any areas get called out as difficult / out of scope and make the parameters of the job clear.

 

no problems with english and communication. there are a lot of professionals on there.

it works for me as there arent many skilled artists in australia that are available and if they are chances are it can be done faster, better and cheaper online, when the aim is to make money why pay more for a poor product - you just need to be careful and pay attention when hiring and giving feedback.

 

there are some borderline xeonphobic viewpoints in this thread. online outsourcing are not going away any time soon

[innerdream]

no strategies you wouldn't employ in a normal interview. check their work, check their feedback, have a quick chat about job specifics and see if any areas get called out as difficult / out of scope and make the parameters of the job clear.

 

no problems with english and communication. there are a lot of professionals on there.

it works for me as there arent many skilled artists in australia that are available and if they are chances are it can be done faster, better and cheaper online, when the aim is to make money why pay more for a poor product - you just need to be careful and pay attention when hiring and giving feedback.

 

there are some borderline xeonphobic viewpoints in this thread. online outsourcing are not going away any time soon

 

There's nothing xenophobic in this thread just facts.

[heni30]

no strategies you wouldn't employ in a normal interview. check their work, check their feedback, have a quick chat about job specifics and see if any areas get called out as difficult / out of scope and make the parameters of the job clear.

 

no problems with english and communication. there are a lot of professionals on there.

it works for me as there arent many skilled artists in australia that are available and if they are chances are it can be done faster, better and cheaper online, when the aim is to make money why pay more for a poor product - you just need to be careful and pay attention when hiring and giving feedback.

 

there are some borderline xeonphobic viewpoints in this thread. online outsourcing are not going away any time soon

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Like I said before, my experience was totally positive from a couple of days ago.

It took this architect 6 1/2 hours to model this bank exterior and interior at $10 an hour - She did a great job - was fast - enthusiastic.

It would have taken me longer - would have been crappier - my time would have been $400 worth vs. $65.

 

Like you say - it's here to stay - why not utilize it to make more money instead of lamenting lost jobs? I met a lot of smart nice people while messaging back and forth. It's not like they're working in a sweatshop in a dark alley somewhere.

[innerdream]

Thanks for the info.

 

Like I said before, my experience was totally positive from a couple of days ago.

It took this architect 6 1/2 hours to model this bank exterior and interior at $10 an hour - She did a great job - was fast - enthusiastic.

It would have taken me longer - would have been crappier - my time would have been $400 worth vs. $65.

 

Like you say - it's here to stay - why not utilize it to make more money instead of lamenting lost jobs? I met a lot of smart nice people while messaging back and forth. It's not like they're working in a sweatshop in a dark alley somewhere.

 

Because George you live in the USA and the USA is a consumer driven economy, no jobs no consumers no consumers no work for you from US companies. If you like competing with $10.00 an hour you got your wish because your take on things has facilitated a race to the bottom.

Did you get in this business to be a broker? I know I didn't.

 

I hope you are going to vote in the election and take the time to understand the issues that face our country.

Edited October 6, 2016 by innerdream

[heni30]

If all you can do is render then that is the situation you're in.

 

I only have 2 main clients. I do renderings for them but more importantly I'm a reliable support element who

is there, a quick phone call away, for anything they need, whether it's quick changes, online research, 2d graphics work, design cleanup, etc.

duties that go way beyond making a pretty picture. They wouldn't give up that smooth work flow and peace of mind to save a couple of hundred bucks on a rendering.

 

And yes - I'll be voting but with a sense of futility that anyone can realistically make any kind of a difference in the system - especially with the partisan gridlock that's been prevalent in the past couple of years.

Edited October 7, 2016 by heni30

[Nic H]

you guys republicans or democrats?

[komyali]

you guys republicans or democrats?

Am i going to create account or not?!

[innerdream]

If all you can do is render then that is the situation you're in.

 

I only have 2 main clients. I do renderings for them but more importantly I'm a reliable support element who

is there, a quick phone call away, for anything they need, whether it's quick changes, online research, 2d graphics work, design cleanup, etc.

duties that go way beyond making a pretty picture. They wouldn't give up that smooth work flow and peace of mind to save a couple of hundred bucks on a rendering.

 

And yes - I'll be voting but with a sense of futility that anyone can realistically make any kind of a difference in the system - especially with the partisan gridlock that's been prevalent in the past couple of years.

 

I'm glad you're voting even though the choices are as usual not good. Our system is broken no doubt.

[innerdream]

Am i going to create account or not?!

 

Create an account and bid on some jobs, if you pay $10.00 a month you can see the bids of other freelancers. It will be an eye opener.

[Scott Schroeder]

you guys republicans or democrats?

 

I know one guy who wants to build a wall and make the freelancers pay for it.

[innerdream]

i know one guy who wants to build a wall and make the freelancers pay for it.

 

[aristocratic3d]

There are some downside in your thinking In my humble opinion.

If I would work $100/h I could never start this profession.

Most of my clients are artists or studios. If you charge $100/h and me do the same why on earth you would want my help? where does the time you spend in back and forth conversation goes?

 

I have respect for people. But I also have concern for the man who with his entire family strive to eat well. (Not to live well).

Resources are open. if that guy learn 3D and start working for $5/h its good for him and good for you. use him.

 

But if you feel that there is no money in the industry choose a different one. Any industry will balance itself. No matter which one you choose. Only If you are a pioneer in any industry you will get advantage and earn more than expected.

 

I don't know man, there is something here that leave me a bitter flavor in my mouth.

It is not all about money, That's why our Business is treated this way, that's why ours and other similar business lose the respect for the craft, it became "just a click button solution" for the bottom price.

Long time ago, Architects and Render artist where respected for what they did, yes there was competition for prices but now is totally out of control.

If you where happy charging $100, and client understood that, they knew that if they wanted a nice image, they had to pay $100 dollars, today some one does it for $90 so you go to $70 then they find some one who does if for $50 and to not loose the client you hire some one who does it for $5 and you charge $15??? I understand free commerce and all that but. really!, that's why we have As@!@# controlling all our commerce, no respect whatsoever for people, Who cares if there are starving children digging for Diamonds or Lithium, as long as I can have the best Phone here, I don't care. Who cares the people are jumping out of factories to get a decent insurance pay for their families, as long I get my latest electronics... I don't care. I don't see them, my manufacturer tell me they are not responsible, because is not their company, but a "third party" a contractor.

 

Imagine if you don't bend backward for the clients and he understand that it is $100 dollars. You make $100, some one in Indian family person make $100, some one in Ukraine Dude make $100. can you image how better we all would be?? we wouldn't have to sacrificing our families crossing the ocean for a better future. I don't think so.

 

All this BS of open market and globalization is one way income. it does not work both way, poor people get more poor, rich people get more rich. And when you are in the good side, you see that you can jump in and save a few extra a bucks. you do it any ways, when you where part of the complaining group a few years ago when all our industry was falling to the bottom.

 

My opinion, I post it here for what it worth, I know I am not the only one who think this way. hopefully. It is not all about money,

not that I have much, I am the only income for my family, we struggle from time to time, but I respect my self, I try to tech my children to be good and think about other people, everything we do has a consequence. there is not rock we trow that won't his some one else or disturb something, is not all about me, it is about US.

Edited October 13, 2016 by aristocratic3d

[harryhirsch]

'''Imagine if you don't bend backward for the clients and he understand that it is $100 dollars. You make $100, some one in Indian family person make $100, some one in Ukraine Dude make $100. can you image how better we all would be??''''....It is what what we call the ''gas-station-principle''' ...but it doesnt work in the archviz-business...because no one would hire the Indian or Ukrainian guy...Clients in the U.S. would stick to the U.S. Archiviz-firms (why bother with firms abroad?), Ukrainian or Indian clients can not afford a $100 archiviz guy therefore they wont hire him.

[komyali]

man, I press in wrong spot with this thread...

[melvincastaneda]

Fox Hound, how do I get a hold of you?

[Francisco Penaloza]

There are some downside in your thinking In my humble opinion.

of course I am just dreaming in a more fair world.

 

If I would work $100/h I could never start this profession.

Most of my clients are artists or studios. If you charge $100/h and me do the same why on earth you would want my help? where does the time you spend in back and forth conversation goes?

Well supply and demand, if there are not many people around you doing this or everybody is too busy or quality is not what you are looking for, language, timing, experience, just the regular options, if you can't find them here then you look some place else.

My point was more global, if you charge a more fair price, your client will have more money, because he is charging more and so on so forth.

 

 

I have respect for people. But I also have concern for the man who with his entire family strive to eat well. (Not to live well).

Resources are open. if that guy learn 3D and start working for $5/h its good for him and good for you. use him.

No I don't think this is right, not because he is charging cheaper than me, but because he is being abused by the system, when he could be having a more decent living, if he respect his profession a little more and people around him respect him as professional.

For instance, Iphone factory providers in China, people are literally killing them self for over worked hours and bottom low compensations, it is fair that those people are working abusive hours shift, living in human conditions and get paid $2 or so at hour while the final product sells for Above $700 USD??

Yes he was making maybe 5 cents dollars in his farm before, now he is making 'more' but still it is not fair game for him. for Apple it is an incredible business, that's why is one of the bigger companies in our planet, it is right? I don't think so.

 

But if you feel that there is no money in the industry choose a different one. Any industry will balance itself. No matter which one you choose.

it is easier to say than do, would you do it? I've done it, several times, this is where I am now.

 

I don't mind who is doing the work really, my point is not against outsourcing, maybe I didn't explain my self correctly.

My point is the crazy race for bottom price do not benefit any service provider, only the person who is paying for it, and it create abuse and degeneration of any profession. I been long enough on this business and live though ups and down. I am not afraid of competition, thankfully now I have a very stable job, and I am confident of what I can do.

My point was injustice on those bottom low prices. of course I want some starving artist to survive, I was one of them, it is unfair that he uses cracked version of the same software that I have to pay for it? sure is not fair, I pay more taxes too, that's why my prices are higher. in a 'regular free market' this is 'fair game or business as usual' how whatever they call it, but still it is not fair, two bad does not make it right.

 

if a guy charge a closer price to mines having a cheaper cost of living, it will be more beneficial to him than to me. but if that spread around, the people who is asking for those services will have that money to pay. because it is a fair game everywhere, now it is not.

Utopia thinking of course it is. but you always can dream for a better world right?

 

 

republican or democrat?

neither, and I feel a shamed to live in a country that is making this election a reality show where nobody will win.

[aristocratic3d]

of course I am just dreaming in a more fair world.

 

A fair world!? Do you think you can do this anymore after the election?

 

By the way, a very important point that you have been missing while dreaming.... Artists do not abuse themselves always. Its the giant companies that are enslaving the humanity in most cases.

 

I have employees whom I am paying more than they expect. But I know they deserve it. their expectation does not matter to me. I give as much as I can give without risking my business. So at the end of the day its a little less for me. But we all are happy.

 

Another point about giant companies. if you dont get people to work in $2/h then you can pay $4/h. Just give them some more paper money. When the money flows into the market that create inflation. you can do same thing with $4 what you could do with $2 an year ago.

 

In Our country in 2009 we could buy four eggs for 6-8 taka. now we spend 48 taka for four eggs. we could buy 1kg beef for 60taka. now we spend 420tk for that.

 

To summarize... Dont just dream, let the dream be realistic. Its not us in the third-world who have no respect for themselves(always). Its the giant companies who are enslaving us.

Edited November 16, 2016 by aristocratic3d

[lenalenawdb]

Hello. I'm doing 3d visualization of the interior, exterior, landscape design, modeling, object visualization. Mostly I work in freelance. Perhaps someone of you will need an assistant when there are many orders from you. I will gladly help. I am from Ukraine.