Virtual reality hardware

[komyali]

Ok guys what would you recommend? I used google cardboard, but that was low cost and quality option, I am now looking something like HTC, Oculus, Razor etc. What do you think witch one is best hardware for money?

[Francisco Penaloza]

Well it is not only, what's best hardware, the type of presentation is very different, depending of the hardware.

For instance, Google cardboard is not accurately VR. You could take a 360 photography and present it with a cardboard, Where as to the HTC vive you can develop a full Unreal, Stingray, Unity game experience.

I have tried Oculus, Samsung VR, Cardboards and HTC vive, this last one is the one who really make you experience a VR presentation. Oculus is very immersive too but, using your feets intead of xbox controller, it really make the difference.

 

What is the purpose for this head set? just personal enjoyment or possible clientele presentations?

The draw back of HTC Vive and Oculus is you also need to invest in a very good computer to run it properly.

[Josef Wienerroither]

Google cardboard is not accurately VR.

It actually IS - its the same as Gear VR, only a bit lower quality ( depending mainly on phone used and the actual cardboard kit ). GoogleVR ( cardboard as a name has been abandoned AFAIK) and Google Daydream ( kind of certification regime coming up for the GoogleVR platform) has great Unity support (like the GearVR) and you can develop the same quality level of VR content on both.

Gear VR has additional controls on the device and delivers better experience than most (all ? )of the cardboard/googleVR supporting kits out there i would assume ...

From the full kits i personally would prefer the HTC Vive ( briefly tested it and was well pleased with the quality and controller support) but everything in this realm is still in flux , so it's hard to give one platform preference IMHO...

Edited October 2, 2016 by spacefrog

[komyali]

IT is for presentation, for my joy I will buy Project Morpheus from Sony... I also think Cardboard could do everything like Oculus, go through model, but quality is low. Also I think on every VR you can use your feet to walk around?! I am looking for best hardware for money, So max resolution per eye and max FPS, also if it have some other good things like FOVE that have DOF control of your eye, I think that effect would bring maximum reality to VR. I only have cardboard and i done testing with it, now I want to bring to another level and bring quality presentation to table, not mobile, one button control presentation My choice at the moment is RAZOR OSVR (good specs) and FOVE (this dof). I would really like to hear some voice from Jeff Mottle

[Francisco Penaloza]

I am sorry but, I do not agree with you Josef, they are not the same, Google cardboard, can't track user movement other than head rotation, also can't track positional parallax or have interaction with the environment, Oculus Riff can do it in some degree and Steam VR can go even further. There are similarities between google cardboard and Samsung Gear VR, but the later have sensors in the device that help to increase the precision of hear rotation. Visual quality they are the same because both depend of the phone. Sadly the word "VR" it been missed use for a while now creating a confusion of what actually is a Virtual Reality experience.

Day dream is the next step for Google in to the Virtual reality tech, one of the thing they are trying to archive is to develop is the same experience you have now with the Oculus Riff but only using your phone with one enhancer head mount device. Hopefully it work as they advertise, but honestly Steam VR and Oculus Riff uses a computer for a reason, they can push way more polygons at a high frame rate which a cellphone now can't deliver.

 

Regarding the other head mount devices mentioned by Komyali, hardware wise they are great. but the success of VR business will be support and development. IMO is like Apple Vs Android, who is the one with more developers and support. Oculus and HTC already have an advantage of being the "first" in this business. Steam is a big company, with thousands of developers already working in their environment, that make a difference.

For Us in the ArchViz side, we just grab our popcorn, and enjoy how those giants race for the first place and produce many app and hardware that will make our presentations and workflow better

Edited October 3, 2016 by fco3d

[Josef Wienerroither]

GearVR and Cardboard are essentially the same, except for the tracking sensors and additional input options. This is what i have written in my post (not specially mentioning the lower latency sensors inside the GearVR nor the lower latency AMOLED display onGearVR, which on the Cardboard side, depends on the used phone ). But saying that GoogleVR is NOT VR is pretty much a exaggeration - don't you think ?

Of course i did'nt compare Vive/Oculus with cardboard. The content quality itself on GearVR vs. Cardboard can be EXACTLY the same, so there is no difference there. It's only about the used device's 3d power. Additional input schemes on the GearVR can of course make a better experience. The GoogleVR/Cardboard only has one trigger button available or has to use the usual Gaze input ( not including bluetooth controllers here as option here)

 

I am sorry but, I do not agree with you Josef, they are not the same, Google cardboard, can't track user movement other than head rotation, also can't track positional parallax or have interaction with the environment, Oculus Riff can do it in some degree and Steam VR can go even further. There are similarities between google cardboard and Samsung Gear VR, but the later have sensors in the device that help to increase the precision of hear rotation. Visual quality they are the same because both depend of the phone. Sadly the word "VR" it been missed use for a while now creating a confusion of what actually is a Virtual Reality experience.

Day dream is the next step for Google in to the Virtual reality tech, one of the thing they are trying to archive is to develop is the same experience you have now with the Oculus Riff but only using your phone with one enhancer head mount device. Hopefully it work as they advertise, but honestly Steam VR and Oculus Riff uses a computer for a reason, they can push way more polygons at a high frame rate which a cellphone now can't deliver.

 

Regarding the other head mount devices mentioned by Komyali, hardware wise they are great. but the success of VR business will be support and development. IMO is like Apple Vs Android, who is the one with more developers and support. Oculus and HTC already have an advantage of being the "first" in this business. Steam is a big company, with thousands of developers already working in their environment, that make a difference.

For Us in the ArchViz side, we just grab our popcorn, and enjoy how those giants race for the first place and produce many app and hardware that will make our presentations and workflow better

[komyali]

Please dont argue about who has bigger d... I need recommendation for VR hardware best for the money NOW and some predictions in couple months My opinion on cardboard is that it depends on phone, so motion tracking depends on GPS... maybe later they put some more sensors in so you can have user movement not just rotation, but for now it is good and cheap VR. When i gave cardboard to people that have no clue with CG, some builders and old architects, they were so excited they lost their brain I cant imagine what would happen if I gave them oculus or htc

[Francisco Penaloza]

I need recommendation for VR hardware best for the money NOW and some predictions in couple months

As mentioned earlier, IMO Steam VR give you the full experience on Virtual Reality so far. A difference with Oculus Rif, with Steam VR you get all the development of Steam already producing hundreds of apps. Also Specialized developers for Arch Viz or similar use Steam VR as main output.

Oculus is a great option too, when they release the hand held controllers it will be even better. But for now Steam VR has the advantage.

[komyali]

THANKS!

I dont get it what is difference between steam and htc???? also big dilema RAZOR and or HTC?

 

EDIT

I think I will go HTC VIVE.

Offtopic

Edited October 3, 2016 by komyali

[beestee]

Every solution has different lists of pros and cons right now. Based on what you have listed for what you are looking for I would recommend the HTC Vive.

 

But there is one big consideration that you did not mention. HTC Vive requires a significant amount of set-up and many wires, same with Oculus Rift. If you will have it set up in one location, such as in an office and you have space where you can leave it set up and use it in that one location, these solutions are better suited and you can build a desktop to power it at that location pretty easily.

 

If you need the presentations to be mobile, you will need to look at VR capable laptops and consider transport and set-up as well. This makes HTC Vive and Oculus Rift less appealing for the presenter, but you still get the same impressive results for the client.

 

OSVR is nice since you can upgrade it as they release new kits, but it is missing some features of the big two and has the same considerations to make for hardware requirements. I think OSVR would not be enough of a step above GearVR to make the effort worth it.

 

GearVR and Daydream are somewhere between Cardboard and Vive/Rift. They offer ideal mobility, better visual fidelity than cardboard, but since they are powered by smartphone the capability to push polygons is limited compared to Vive/Rift. They use an inferior form of tracking when compared to the Vive/Rift, but they are completely wireless. Daydream will have a 3DOF motion controller which could be a big differentiation between it and the GearVR.

[komyali]

tnx benjamin

[Jeff Mottle]

Fox Hound looks like you got some pretty good advice so far, anything else you are wondering? I just got back from the Oculus (OC/3) event on Monday and a friend of mine is doing recon at the HTC dev event right now. I've not tried the Fove yet, but I have tried eye tracking on a modified GearVR (done by SMI). Was cool, but was pretty clunky. I have also tried a prototype eye tracking system by NVIDIA to showcase foveal rendering and it was super smooth. However it's a prototype and I was told the chip to do this costs more than an HMD.

 

I have personally tried all of these pretty extensively: the Rift, Vive, Meta2, Hololens, and GearVR. Also a ton of other AR devices like the Epson Moverio. I own the Vive and my Rift with Touch controllers is on its way.

 

I think the lowest hanging fruit for our industry is the GearVR. (I hate cardboard BTW) Relatively inexpensive, easy to use and only requires you to render more pixels for the most part, but really depends what you are wanting to do. If you just want to get a sense of scale, this is the way to go IMHO. Keep a close eye on these guys: http://www.nozon.com/presenz I think this is going to be pretty impactful, although there are some others working on similar types of tech to provide parallax in VR. I've tried some lightfield demos too, but none are ready for mainstream yet. Still very prototypical.

[komyali]

Tnx Jeff, I need to step in this VR train I think I will go with HTC 60 % or Oculus 40% waiting for my paycheck so I can order These prototypes can wait for next paycheck

[Jeff Mottle]

Tnx Jeff, I need to step in this VR train I think I will go with HTC 60 % or Oculus 40% waiting for my paycheck so I can order These prototypes can wait for next paycheck

 

Good choice. Given the Vive still does room scale the best, good for architecture.

[John Dollus]

I have both the Oculus and GearVR. Personally, our clients aren't impressed with stereo panoramas beyond gimmick level entertainment. In real world use, our clients prefer to use a simple AR application via a tablet device to anything that is worn. Every time. My own theory based on observation is that their reasoning is based on the tablet being more of a social experience and part of it is that our clients seem to be very particular with their appearance.

I'm more interested in the MR aspect of the hololens because it actually seems as though you can be productive but I'm hesitant to spend $3k on a development product having been burned a bit by the Oculus DK evolution. I've tried the HTC but not a fan of the controllers and setting up a roomscale installation just isn't practical in our studio.

[Francisco Penaloza]

Tnx Jeff, I need to step in this VR train I think I will go with HTC 60 % or Oculus 40% waiting for my paycheck so I can order These prototypes can wait for next paycheck

 

Well I don't know how big or small is your pay check, but I would recommend first for you to choose your platform of development, then the final output can vary.

For instance, I would recommend to take a look at Autodesk Stingray, it is similar to Unreal or Unity, but very integrated with Autodesk Max and REVIT. Or take a look a workflow for Unreal for VR. Then lets say get the HTC Vive. once you feel comfortable with that, creating VR presentation for Oculus is almost the same. Doing presentation for Gear VR will be more simple because the interaction possibilities are minor in that case it is all about optimization.

If your client are using Oculus Riff, then you should concentrate in that device first.

Remember all this tech is very new and it is advancing at a very fast speed, it is crazy really. If you invest in buying all the packages jut to stay in top of the game IMHO is not the best choice. Take a look at your market now, see where are the possibilities, what people like, what they are up to and then make your choice, other wise it will be a waste of money, because in less than a year all that hardware will be obsolete.

 

take a loot at these people, they are promoting Wireless system already.

http://www.modalvr.com/

the question is, it is all true?? what compatible software can you use with their device??

[komyali]

tnx Francisco I already chose, my platform is UT, and yes technology is developing progressively, but the core is same, when you learn 3D basic principles, all programs are almost same just different environment, same goes with VR, does it have wire or not I really dont care at the moment, just want to test my scenes on it! Dont worry in couple years you will connect your glasses to tablet and have good VR

P.S. google cardboard is primitive but cheap and very good option to present some projects to your clients.

[eddieisraelsky]

Hi

All the devices seem to have their pro's and cons, but I can assure you that any PC based HMD will be more powerful than the mobile devices, but that doesnt mean that people are not using Cardboard.

I want to introduce you to WakingApp's ENTiTi platform, http://www.wakingapp.com

With ENTiTi you can import your FBX, STL, OBJ and DAE files, setup your scene, add interaction with our Logic System, and then you can publish to IOS/Android and as well HTC Vive and Oculus Rift in one single piece of software. Its also Cloud Based

If anyone is interested on it or have questions please PM me

Thanks!

[philippelamoureux]

I have the vive but I would prefer a rift I think. Only because it's lighter and less of an hassle to setup! I don't really all of the possibilities of the vive tho. I mostly use it while seated. I find the vive clunky and I usually don't use it for more than 5-10 mins at a time!

[philippelamoureux]

Well I don't know how big or small is your pay check, but I would recommend first for you to choose your platform of development, then the final output can vary.

For instance, I would recommend to take a look at Autodesk Stingray, it is similar to Unreal or Unity, but very integrated with Autodesk Max and REVIT. Or take a look a workflow for Unreal for VR. Then lets say get the HTC Vive. once you feel comfortable with that, creating VR presentation for Oculus is almost the same. Doing presentation for Gear VR will be more simple because the interaction possibilities are minor in that case it is all about optimization.

If your client are using Oculus Riff, then you should concentrate in that device first.

Remember all this tech is very new and it is advancing at a very fast speed, it is crazy really. If you invest in buying all the packages jut to stay in top of the game IMHO is not the best choice. Take a look at your market now, see where are the possibilities, what people like, what they are up to and then make your choice, other wise it will be a waste of money, because in less than a year all that hardware will be obsolete.

 

take a loot at these people, they are promoting Wireless system already.

http://www.modalvr.com/

the question is, it is all true?? what compatible software can you use with their device??

 

I'm not sure the ''integrated'' workflow of stingray outweight all the other benefits of unreal tho, Think about the huge community, all the assets available, often for free, the blueprint system, etc...

[komyali]

Did something changed in couple months, my money is still in desk waiting for me to chose what type to buy I tested both Oculus and Vive, It wasnt what I expected, they need to crank that resolution per eye big time. Difference between cardboard 2$ and HTC 900$ is smaller than difference in price, if I invest in this I think it will end up like experiment.

[philippelamoureux]

If you just use it for stereo images it's not worth the price imo. But vive and rift are tremendously better gear for real-time vr. They shine in gaming, for what they're designed for actually.

 

Have you tried some games with your helmets? Usually the immersion makes up for the lowish resolution, but just when the game/app can run at high framerate. Otherwise it gets ugly, fast!!!!

[komyali]

lol for stereo image I use my panasonic GT Plasma 3d glasses best quality picture ever in trade for electric bill I was on fair and autodesk stand, they used stingray, feeling was great, but details and resolution didnt impress me. Didnt try games, I am in working mode at the moment, my playstation 3 was sitting near TV for 3 last years just for movies, and ps4 sold to friend because didnt had time to play it I am thinking about Project morpheus for fun, but this VR set (vive) I want to buy for presentation to my clients and for professional use, price bother me all the time, I dont want to buy just another experiment...

[Francisco Penaloza]

lol for stereo image I use my panasonic GT Plasma 3d glasses best quality picture ever in trade for electric bill I was on fair and autodesk stand, they used stingray, feeling was great, but details and resolution didnt impress me. Didnt try games, I am in working mode at the moment, my playstation 3 was sitting near TV for 3 last years just for movies, and ps4 sold to friend because didnt had time to play it I am thinking about Project morpheus for fun, but this VR set (vive) I want to buy for presentation to my clients and for professional use, price bother me all the time, I dont want to buy just another experiment...

 

Dude, while involved in this type of tech you always will be buying a prototype or an experimental tech.

There is no way around, is like saying "I will wait until the best render engine is developed to render in one click in 1 second"

 

We live in a very special time where you have so many advances really quickly a affordable price, most of the time. Use them as you need them, if they didn't work, well too bad. as rule of thumb always look who is developing and how long they been in business and how much acceptance their products have.

Comparing Razer with HTC VIVE is not a fair comparison, HTC VIVE has Steam backing up with a large number of developers. Razer just is trying to get a piece of that cake.

 

If you have full VR experience, your only options now are HTC VIVE and Oculus riff. then lower tier will be everything else.

Sony's morpheus will be mostly for games, SONY is not famous for sharing tech, is like Microsoft sell a headset only for XBox.

Also it is proven that performance on Sony's PS4 VR is below what you get on a top of the line computer with VIVE or Oculus.

And that is the advantage for our industry. HTC VIVE and Oculus are open to a large number of developers, they can use Unity, Unreal, Stingray whatever the heck they want to. Those other niche headset don't have that to support them.

[philippelamoureux]

I think komyali is not using the vive or rift to it's real potential. I tell you man it's not worth it if you don't plan to do real-time VR! I got rid of my vive because I realized I wasn't going to develop for it. It's too heavy, cumbersome and not worth the trouble... It's cool during the design process but for final marketing imagery, you need something easier to use, mobile, etc. As a freelancer i'm not involved in the design phase, so it's pretty useless for me to spend time on real-time vr right now.

 

That being said the htc vive was pretty cool when playing video games! Try DCS world if your have a very good pc. It's the future man!

 

I was never interested by the PSVR until I've heard about Ace combat 7 coming this year I think. Apparently it's pretty dope!