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How sad it is!


innerdream
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Job listing:

 

-READ IN FULL-

 

Office Xtend is a U.S. based company providing services to U.S. clients in various areas. We have a client the currently requires an experienced Renderer. Please read qualifications and responsibilities below and only serious candidates should apply.

 

**MUST speak, write and communicate well in English

**MUST have an Architecture background

**MUST have strong RENDERING skills

**MUST have VRAY experience

MUST have experience working on U.S. projects and U.S. standards

MUST have excellent internet connection

MUST be a good and quick communicator

MUST be reliable, honest and dependable

 

A resume is required reflecting the experience above and a portfolio.

 

Long term. Full time.

Hourly pay: $7.00-$8.00

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However, 7 U.S. dollars equals:

 

477 Indian Rupee

419 Russian Rubles

48 Chinese Yuan

and 152 Mexican Pesos

 

So maybe it's a good deal to them?

 

No offense to people in those countries, but you get what you pay for as far as convenience, accuracy and communication.

 

What is sad to me is that the industry is so devalued, that an Architect thinks what we do is only worth $7.00 an hour.

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What is sad to me is that the industry is so devalued, that an Architect thinks what we do is only worth $7.00 an hour.

 

I think Architects know that renderings are priceless, but are inherently cheap, and will continue to cut corners to improve their bottom line. And when there are people in the world who will do ArchViz for $7 an hour, Architects are willing to take the risk and have an Intern manage the outsource.

 

It is sad that Architects are willing to search the globe to save some money when they know that effectively communicating their design intent to the client can make or break the deal.

 

It's all about selling the service. You know you will cost more than some kid in Eastern Europe, or even some freelancers here in the U.S. But if you are good at what you do, reliable, good at communicating and hitting their deadlines you will get clients that will respect you and pay properly.

 

I know if I was freelancing to some company overseas I wouldn't be that good of a deal to them, because I do not understand their architecture or language, so things would break down.

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I was curious about salaries because I'm paying my Upwork Ukraine architect $15/hr (she was asking for $12) so I googled civil engineers (a more stable profession) rough salaries in the US and the Ukraine.

 

US - $70,000

Ukraine - $14,000.

 

So that US $8/hr might translate into $25 plus ukr/hr plus - in the parallel universe of the Ukraine.

(depending on the cost of living)

Edited by heni30
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I was curious about salaries because I'm paying my Upwork Ukraine architect $15/hr (she was asking for $12) so I googled civil engineers rough salaries in the US and the Ukraine.

 

US - $70,000

Ukraine - $14,000.

 

So that US $8/hr might translate into $25 plus ukr/hr plus - in the parallel universe of the Ukraine.

(depending on the cost of living)

 

Well be careful they may build a wall between USA and Ukraine to protect our citizen from those cheap workers ;)

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More than likely, in the next 4 years our dollar will be devalued to the point where we are all doing freelancing jobs for the Ukraine making the equivalent of 8 of their Ukrainian Hryvnia, which is currently at 27.55 to our dollar.

 

So the Ukrainian Architect is making 859,560 a year, doesn't sound too bad.

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More than likely, in the next 4 years our dollar will be devalued to the point where we are all doing freelancing jobs for the Ukraine making the equivalent of 8 of their Ukrainian Hryvnia, which is currently at 27.55 to our dollar.

 

So the Ukrainian Architect is making 859,560 a year, doesn't sound too bad.

 

Somehow entertaining reading. I get that US citizens are negative about the future with Trump. Look, there is this norwegian psychic healer who's predicted that he's going to get shot and killed. I've visited this guy, and there is something about him. He might be psychic or he might be not, but he sure has some healing capabilities. That said...

 

Ukraine.

 

Remember their situation. I've got a couple of Ukrainian friends who I occasionally talk with. "We" work to be able to pay our bills, or else we'll be "down the gutter", but with the community still giving us a minimal pay/wage to be able to get a place to live and some food on the table. Some other people work to survive. They lower their prices so much because they are desperate in getting work. Desperate about not being outbid, because it's better to work 18 hours (where 50% free work) and not being evicted, than taking a risk on getting outbid. So these people are running wayyy too low $ just to be sure they get the work. It's totally crazy, but this is the reason why they are running extra low prices, and also the reason why china is starting to get outbid (because of their work and human rights giving people better living standards).

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I guess my stance on this whole issue is that if the industry would price fix, and agree on standard rates, we would all be better off (perhaps). Someone in another country could be making 5 times what they are making now. If price was all equal, it would boil down to talent and service.

 

I know, price fixing isn't good, and pretty much illegal, but if we wouldn't undercut each other so much it would benefit us all. Understandably, freelances are going to be less expensive than a company due to overhead, but in general, they may also be less reliable and consistent.

 

I would like to do freelance for an overseas client, simply for the opportunity to work on other projects and architectural styles, but I can't to that for $7-8/hr.

 

I guess that is how the free market works, and why they are moving car production from Detroit to Mexico, and why we will ship metals to China to have it turned into a faucet and shipped back, or they make iPhones in China to (literally) save a couple dollars. Companies will go through more work if in the end it improves their bottom line.

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It's complicated because who are we to say what to charge? It's also very short sighted by those that have devalued the market place, that said everyone needs to eat.

 

A long time ago a designer I worked with said he thought unions for the Architecture profession were a good Idea, I have to agree.

Anyhow, I'm getting out asap. Too much stress and trouble for too little money.

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Man this thread has turned into the digital version of some old coot yelling at the squirrels to get off this lawn. You can either complain or you can spend your time bettering yourself to stand out above the bottom feeders of this industry.

 

Unions will fail. You can't do a US wide union, let alone a global union because you'd have to set a baseline price. So an average price would still mean that me living in Indiana will be able to afford a home and me living in San Francisco will mean that I'm living in a box under a bridge. If you do pricing per location, then you'd still lose all of the jobs to the cheaper labor states.

 

Yes, there are terrible paying render jobs out there. You know what you can do? Ignore them. Why fight over a clown of a client who to begin with will not value your work.

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You need to offer something different. I agree with Scott about standing out above the bottom feeders. Since I started in this industry 10 years ago there has always been the cheaper option, Ive always been asked to do it cheaper, do it faster, "this guy in Argentina will do it for 3x less than you!" to this day I still hear "you are too expensive James". Well yes, I am - but you get what you pay for.

 

Ive had clients come back to me after going for the cheaper option - why? Quality, consistency, understanding the project requirements, knowing the building materials and asking the right questions, knowing how to solve design issues before they come up because you spent the time reading the information and talking to the people involved in the project.

 

Sure if you need a $500 image done and it needs to go to print TOMORROWWW and you dont even have a complete floor plan - go ahead, outsourcing is probably your best option. And if thats the clients you attract, then your going to have a bad time.

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Anyhow, I'm getting out asap. Too much stress and trouble for too little money.

 

Yup, Architectural jobs in my area dried up with the last recession, and I tried to go back into it in 2014 only to find out the pay hadn't gone up a penny since I left the field 4 year before that. Yet, I took the job because I missed Architecture, but ended up quitting a few months later. It wasn't worth the pay cut I took to go back, so I went back to my old job working at a CG Studio working with automotive manufacturers. I still to ArchViz on the side to get my fix, and maybe one day I can do it full time again...

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