Rendering Video for Distribution

[LukeC]

Hi all,

 

I am currently in the situation where I need to distribute an animation to clients via cds for playback on other pcs.

 

The ideal situation is that they dont have to install any codecs or players to playback the video and im not using dvd for this situation.

 

I have currently been using the cinepak codec as it comes with windows but the quality is quite poor.

 

Ive started to look at encoding in MPEG 1 or 2. Im not too sure of the differences or what is required to play them back.

 

I am using the latest Premiere Pro and I can manage to output a .m1v and .m2v file but not an actual mpeg file.

 

If anyone can help at all that'd be great.

 

Cheers

Luke

[Bugga_Guy]

Hi Luke

 

There are many different codecs, and I am sure everyone has their own prefference as to what they use. So I'll just mention what we use in our office:

 

Sorenson QuickTime

mpeg 1.

 

I personally like the quality of quicktime's sorenson's codec, but we mainly use mpeg1 about 90% of the time because:

 

1. File sizes are fairly small

2. Quality is good

3. It will run on both windows media player and quicktime.

4. You can insert mpeg1 movies into power point presentations.

 

m1v is an mpg 1 (for vcd) file while m2v is an mpeg2 file (for dvd). the thing about mpg1's is that it will generally play on all movie players, while mpeg2 is a different story (well at least in my experience).

 

I use premiere 6.5 so I am not all that familiar with pro. However you mentioned that you made .m1v and .m2v. Well in fact you made an mpg1 movie after all.

 

At our office we use procoder which has a plugin to premiere - the export wizard is quite easy to use and lets you choose the best codec compression for web, dvd etc.

 

http://www.canopus.us/us/products/procoder2/pm_procoder2.asp

 

Also once you make an mpeg movie you cannot edit it. I always make a master RAW quicktime movie using no compression for safe keeping, however they take up alot of space so be warned.

 

Good luck!

[Ernest Burden III]

This has been covered here before, but never answered definatively--I don't think there is one answer. I am not expert on the subject, but am in the same position.

 

Recently I started using Quicktime encoded with Sorenson3 which works well, and especially MPEG1. I had tried to make MPEG2 work, but it kept re-sizing my output which I didn't want, I could never get it to just behave. So I tried MPEG1 and it has been working well. I can set any resolution I want and pixel aspect.

 

The files are alarmingly small, but look as good upon playback as the QT ones and also as good as the .wmv (Windows Mwdia) ones.

 

And you CAN play the .mpg files off a CD drive, usually. I hated having to write 'copy to HD to play' on discs I gave potential clients.

 

In Premiere Pro do Export>Adobe Media Encoder and select the format, then you get sub-options etc. A lot to tackle, but for MPEG1 I was able to set the few things that mattered and leave the rest alone.

[LukeC]

Ah ok thats useful info. Confirmed i was on the right track.

 

The thing is tho to output my m1v file i was going through Adobe Media Encoder - MPEG1 exept instead of the file being mpg it is m1v. The output has no audio layer so would this be the reason and does m1v play in wmp fine the same as a mpg would?

[Bugga_Guy]

I have seen MPEG-1 files with extensions mpg, mpeg, mpe, and m1v.

 

m1v is the only one meaning - video only, but it is still an mpeg1 (same goes with m2v - mpeg2 video only)

 

if there was sound with your animation either it didn't compress with the animation or it made another seperate mpg file with only sound. Unfortunately like I said I am not familiar with premiere pro, but I am sure there is a setting to include audio, or make a single layer movie. Best thing to do is look in the help menu under exporting.

 

A m1v should run under quicktime and wmp.

[Ernest Burden III]

I got .mpg MPEG1 files with audio out of Adobe Media Encoder in Premierepro 1

[LukeC]

Cheers for that, the whole m1v and mpg thing was confusing me. My animation doesnt have audio in it just to clarify.

 

Just one last question, if mpeg 2 is for dvd and mpeg 1 is for playback on computers etc. What is mpeg 4 for? Streaming video off the net?

 

just curious

[Ernest Burden III]

What is mpeg 4 for? Streaming video off the net?

 

Probably.

 

DivX uses mpg4 I think.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

windows media format is based on mpeg4, divx is based on mpeg4, and their is also an mp4 format. ...as well as all of the take offs of divx out their. for awhile microsoft had a mpeg4 codec, but it really was their research product for developing the windows media format. divx reverse engineered microsofts mpeg4 codec (that were not supposed to be distributed) to produce their divx codec up until version 3 something of divx. at that point microsoft was trying to sue them. divx then rewrote their code so it did not contain any of microsofts original code.

 

both divx and wmv will deliver better quality than standard mpeg4.

 

quicktime also now produces and plays some sort of mpeg4.

 

windows media does not recognize mpeg4 natively, but codecs can be installed so it does. divx i think plays mpeg4 with no additional codecs. mpeg4 was supposed to be the wave of the future for video on the net, but is still lacking in development as a pure format itself. several of the people developing it are dong so in a propriatary way (wmv and divx).

 

anyway, most new DVD players suppport mpeg4, and mpeg4 will be replacing the mpeg2 format for DVD's.

 

currently i don't think their is a free mpeg4 encoder that exists, although their are some reletively cheap ones.

 

mpeg1 is really outdated, but is still a great standby.

 

mpeg4 would be great if microsoft would suck it up and support the darn thing. right now apple is the only one supporting it at OS install level, since you are forced to install quicktime when you install macs OS.

 

everyone has their opinions, but i distribut 90% in wmv format now. super easy, playable on all decently recent windows machines, and macs with windows media installed. plus, wmv is a super secure format compared to most.

[LukeC]

everyone has their opinions, but i distribut 90% in wmv format now. super easy, playable on all decently recent windows machines, and macs with windows media installed. plus, wmv is a super secure format compared to most.

 

 

Ive gone to export wmv in premiere and theres a million options. Most seem to be for streeming video or download of the net... now this is where i get confused and dont know what setting to use.

 

The other question was, secure how so?

[Ernest Burden III]

Ive gone to export wmv in premiere and theres a million options.

 

That's if you use 'adobe media encoder'. If you simply set your vieo type in the project to 'windows media' it will do just about everything for you and produce a really nice result. That way you are just doing export>timeline

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

Ive gone to export wmv in premiere and theres a million options. Most seem to be for streeming video or download of the net... now this is where i get confused and dont know what setting to use.

 

The other question was, secure how so?

i don't export from premiere, i use the stand alone wmv app that nmicrosoft gives away for free. it is similar to what ernest is saying, you just select what media you want to compress for, and the target data rate or file size, and it does the rest. the simplicity is part of the reason i like this codec. i used to use sorenson pro for quicktime, and i was always overwhelmed with the settings it had. i was better off using the free version of sorenson because of that.

 

anyway, ....security. most web movies are easy to steal and reverse engineer. windows media has made this more difficult. with a little knowledge you can still highjack it, but it is almost impossible to reverse engineer. ...meaning even if you download it to your computer, you can't open it and insert your logo, or remove my logo or name credits or anything to claim it as your own work. many other formats you can simply open in premeire or whatever editor yuo use, and crop them, or modify them as you please.

[LukeC]

Ah thats really helpful, cheers. Its always frustrated me not knowing much in the world of post video production so im trying to learn as much as I can.

 

Anyway I'll research both MS's wmv encoder and the encoding via premiere.

 

While we got this thread going I might as well ask, what are the ideal bitrate settings for video playback from different medias eg cd, direct off hard drive so on and so forth. This is somthign ive also had a bit of trouble with.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

the last couple of times i used windows media stand alone app i compressed using what microsoft dubs 'Quality VBR' which stands for quality variable bit rate. typically i use a resolution of 720x540 at 30 fps, with video quality set to the default of 95, and decoder complexity left on automatic. it looks good, and plays off of a cd with no problems.

 

i messed around with 'Bit rate VBR Peak' for awhile with some success, but i decided it was easier and faster to just use the settings above.

[Ernest Burden III]

i messed around

 

Thanks for that, CHG. I suppose we should look at creating a chart of codecs and decent settings, something that would be a good starting point for anyone. This is a very FAQ, and there is no one answer.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

Thanks for that, CHG. I suppose we should look at creating a chart of codecs and decent settings, something that would be a good starting point for anyone. This is a very FAQ, and there is no one answer.

good idea.

 

video compression also relies heavily on the content you are compressing. some codecs perform better under different conditions. typically the more movement and noise in the image, the more difficult it is for the codec to produce a quality video. ...and even if it does produce a quality video, the strain put on the processor and graphics card to play it back often result in dropped frames, or stuttering play.

 

for example. 6 or 7 months ago i was lpaying around with your NPR technique. you had just posted a video that you did using it, so i decided to run a couple of quick filters, and try it on some of my own stuff. i wrote out the animation file, which was typically around 20-26 megs for that project. i ran the filters, which consisted of adding a top layer of line work, and a noise filter on the lower layer. then i compressed the video again, and i think under the same settings the file had grown to about 200-230 megs. ouch. i am sure i could have done things to get the file size back to where it was, but like i said, that was just a test run.

 

so if we did create a chart, maybe there should be 3 test footage pieces. little motion, high motion, and NPR ....or somthing like that. then each of the videos is ran through the codec being tested.

 

 

it is also important to understand how video compression works. the various ways codecs use to compress videos. whether the codec does frame to frame comparison first, or just does a compression on each image, ect.. ect.. if you have a scene where a ball bounces through it, but the camera doesn't move, then the codec can run through all of the frames, and basically understand that the background is basically the same in all of the frames, and can be reused so it only needs to be stored once, and only the areas around the ball are changing. we know this is rarely the case in arch animations. we tend to have the camera moving and panning continously. the camera rarely rests in one place.

 

anyway, i am starting to ramble, so i will get out of this message. if i have a chance i will try to dig up some links for whoever is interested in how video codecs work. video compression is frustrating because it is such a gamble, and there is no catch all answer like there tends to be when compressing a still image (as you already said).

[LukeC]

Well coming from someone who has been trying to work all this out piece by piece on their own, a guide, even if that is all it is, a basic starter for video encoding, would be very helpful.

 

its only now have i started to get some straight forward information on how to go about outputting my renders which id have to say is very helpful. thanks

[Ernest Burden III]

i wrote out the animation file, which was typically around 20-26 megs for that project. i ran the filters, which consisted of adding a top layer of line work, and a noise filter on the lower layer. then i compressed the video again, and i think under the same settings the file had grown to about 200-230 megs. ouch.

 

Yeah, that's my life--100MB per minute or more. However, a file that compresses to 500MB using Indeo5.1 or similar for QT sor.3 will compress to about 90MB or less with MPEG1 and be the only one to play off a CD drive and look better while doing it.

[v_wrangler]

Yeah, that's my life--100MB per minute or more. However, a file that compresses to 500MB using Indeo5.1 or similar for QT sor.3 will compress to about 90MB or less with MPEG1 and be the only one to play off a CD drive and look better while doing it.

 

Another option is to Bink it.

http://www.radgametools.com/default.htm

[LukeC]

Ive used Bink on a previous job but to be honest i didnt really like it. But thats just a personal opinion