15 interior renderings for $100.00 to $150.00

[innerdream]

Good job freelancers in the 3rd world you have now made this profession less lucrative than a job at McDonalds.

[Andres Saarnak]

So you only want to buy cheap Nikes and iPhones but architects can´t buy cheaper renderings?

 

Stop crying.

[innerdream]

Seriously what does buying Nikes and Iphones have to do with it? 3D rendering is an art form diminished to a commodity by cheap pricing.

 

This is what is happening to Architects as well, they are becoming a commodity instead of a profession.

Edited May 18, 2017 by innerdream

[Scott Schroeder]

Yes, your experiences with the bottom feeders on Fiverr or Elance means this whole industry is going to hell.

[innerdream]

Yes, your experiences with the bottom feeders on Fiverr or Elance means this whole industry is going to hell.

 

My experience is 40 years in the Architecture field, Gensler, Walt Disney Imagineering, A.C. Martin in house and freelance for many top firms. When my past associates tell me they're outsourcing to China then there is truth to my words.

[Andres Saarnak]

So what do you suggest?

[innerdream]

Going to work for Uber or Lyft. Hahahaha

 

In a perfect world it would take a united stance against selling "art" for the price of a meal, it won't happen though because you can't make a guy that needs to eat buy into that. I fear it's too late, once that genie is out of the bottle you can't put it back.

 

Just last week I was interviewed by a UK University about freelancing and the pluses and minuses. We talked about country specific services, meaning buyer and freelancer have to live in the same country, and also how to have better rates for everyone. It would take a unified effort to have a global market that is good for everyone.

[Andres Saarnak]

So, how much would your iPhone cost, when it wouldn´t be produced in a 3rd world country?

 

PS. I wonder, why people are calling 3D an art when it's 90% "buy asset->import->render"? Yeah, Marek Denko can call his 3D images art....but I definitely wouldn't call all 3D works an art.

[Greg Francis]

I suppose you pay for what you get? Some freelancers work can be terrible. It's also easier to have a working relationship with visualisation practices closer to home. Wonder if that'll always be the case though!

[innerdream]

It's not about iPhones, they are mass produced and are the same item.

 

I don't have the answer. The interviewer from the University was for a sort of web portal with a minimum wage type set up as I recall. Something that offered a global market yet minimized the disparity in wages.

[heni30]

PS. I wonder, why people are calling 3D an art when it's 90% "buy asset->import->render"? Yeah, Marek Denko can call his 3D images art....but I definitely wouldn't call all 3D works an art.

 

It's really up to you how much you want to invest into your craft/art. You can buy asset> import > but then it's what happens between this stage and "render" that determines how far it goes into the realm of art. One has to to set up the composition, set up the lighting, create an ambiance, tell a story, etc. I truly believe you can make a hot dog stand look as kick-ass as a hadid building.

 

I mean, Edward Weston was taking pictures of a green pepper that he bought in the market that morning and produced images that reveal essence of the universe. (google)

 

I think if you're competing with $150 renderings then you have to invest time and training into moving your work up a couple (a lot?) of notches above that particular tier.

[innerdream]

I think if you're competing with $150 renderings then you have to invest time and training into moving your work up a couple (a lot?) of notches above that particular tier.

 

My point originally is that clients will expect AAA renderings for $150.00. The reason being more and more artists are able to produce high level work and so the race to the bottom happens as the talent pool is saturated with good artists hungry for work. Once clients get it in their heads that they can have good work cheap it's a tough road going back.

[Francisco Penaloza]

Well, this same conversation happens at least once a year in this website and the sad news is that it is only getting worse.

Maybe for Oldtimers like myself working in a country where Arch Viz used to be a pretty decent profession, it feels like it hurt us more, after 'globalization' give the chance to many other starving artists to jump in and get a decent income. ( I hope). because honestly, companies in some countries are charging less than the income of a freelancer??, how can they support their corporates expenses and create gains?... oh yes paying nothing to their employees or not paying for software, Welcome 21 St century slaves.

 

I guess also because technology, is becoming easier every year to create a convincing image or just good enough, so with that in mind, it is easy to not look Arch Viz as art but just a task that has to be done by someone. We all agree what Lumion is capable off but, you know there are many people who believe their Lumion's animation are just the same as something like the third and the seventh, "it has the same linear camera movements and DOF"...

 

For some of us that are not only thinking about the creation of an image to get some quick cash but rather create something that can hold itself, try to portrait the 'spirit' of the project and not just placing arbitrary landscaping that won't even reflect the local vegetation of the project location. It is a pill really hard to swallow, It feels really sad this new reality of this business.

 

Think about it, it is just unfair that someone living in an expensive country with high taxes paying all their software has to compete with some company or freelancing that has minimum cost. To me, it is unfair for both, why someone who is building the most expensive tech device on this planet is barely making what their currency worth??

 

Again this talks already was talked to dead here, and it will come back again next year, It is a matter of time that many other professions will be affected for this out of control 'globalization' that honestly, it only works in one way.

 

I have been called many names when I express my opinion about this and believe me it is not patronizing, I grew up in a developing country, under a Socialist thinking, and I truly believe that while we argue with each other here there are only a few people that really are making money with this, and that should be our first concern.

 

For us, as many other said, we need to evolve and adapt, like the first architect who made their first sketch with pencil, later with brushes, airbrush, computers and so on, we need to learn new technologies that fit with our profession or create a new one that can fill our passion of content creation.

[Andres Saarnak]

/////, how can they support their corporates expenses and create gains?... oh yes paying nothing to their employees or not paying for software, Welcome 21 St century slaves.

So it´s like the other active thread here, how freelancers in NY didn´t get paid before a new law...

 

I guess also because technology, is becoming easier every year to create a convincing image or just good enough, so with that in mind,

Yes, this is the point- 3D IS EASY. It literally takes 2 months learning to be able to produce those lower tier renderings. So, of course, there are a lot of people looking for work. In my country, the biggest 3D company produces cheap sub-par images in my opinion, but a lot of clients doesn´t need anything better. They pay less for marketing and still sell their apartments. Why should they pay my rates? They don´t have to care about "oh, I do art here".

 

For some of us that are not only thinking about the creation of an image to get some quick cash but rather create something that can hold itself, try to portrait the 'spirit' of the project and not just placing arbitrary landscaping that won't even reflect the local vegetation of the project location. It is a pill really hard to swallow, It feels really sad this new reality of this business.

It´s not about what 3D guy offers. It´s what client asks for.

 

Think about it, it is just unfair that someone living in an expensive country with high taxes paying all their software has to compete with some company or freelancing that has minimum cost. To me, it is unfair for both, why someone who is building the most expensive tech device on this planet is barely making what their currency worth??

It is unfair for a lot of people from all over the world. But when a Cambodian gets into a motorcycle accident and loses his $2K scooter, the whole family is in deep-deep sh*t for years (they had to sell their lands to a westerner and take a loan to get a scooter). Often their children can´t go to school after that and so on. People in the west would just buy another scooter the next day. Yeah, unfair. I really can´t blame them charging less than me when I buy my cheap nikes produced by the same people getting 1$ a day.

 

For us, as many other said, we need to evolve and adapt, like the first architect who made their first sketch with pencil, later with brushes, airbrush, computers and so on, we need to learn new technologies that fit with our profession or create a new one that can fill our passion of content creation.

Agreed.

[innerdream]

You can't assume just because someone lives in the US, UK, Canada they can just go out and buy or put on credit a new scooter.

[Francisco Penaloza]

It´s not about what 3D guy offers. It´s what client asks for.

 

Andres, I understand your point, but to me is not black and white really. If someone asks you to do an image/video for them it is because they saw your work and they like it. They see a difference between you and the other guy, then it is logic that your price comes with everything you can offer.

 

To your example, that guy who lost his $2K bike, he'll bid for a rendering for $100 while I bid $1K, the project is about $1M the contractor chooses him and pay the $100, did the guy really won??? what if he also charged $1k he will be half the price of the Bike already. That's why to me the system is wrong, Why he needs to be content with less, way less. Let's do the typical competition of $900 vs $850 but not $100 vs $1K that's wrong for you and for me. While the Mr 1M project dude still charging 1M.

 

Yes, there are projects that in some stage good enough is OK, I do a lot of them too, but please don't let each project be like that.

LADA made good enough cars for a while but today they can't compete, people rather pay a little more for a better car.

 

Like we say in my Country: 'it is ok to bend over a little from time to time but never too much so you show your balls'

[SkylineArch]

So, how much would your iPhone cost, when it wouldn´t be produced in a 3rd world country?

 

Actually, I think it's only like $18 more to build an iPhone in the U.S. vs. China, but $18x a million phone adds up for investors.

 

I'd say there are a couple of solutions:

1. Have the "3rd world" artists charge more, so they make more and bring the overall fees back up

2. Sell yourself/company more on service than the end product

 

The problem with option 1 is that one guy will change a dollar less then his competition, then someone will under cut him, and eventually we are back to where we are, besides, industry price fixing is frowned upon, if not illegal.

 

Option 2 will more than likely work itself out naturally. As companies work with vendors in other countries, they will realize how cumbersome it is to communicate and work with different time zones and convey Architectural styles and practices and try a local company at some point and discover the price difference may be made up with time and hassle.

 

Then there is option 3, work at McDonalds.

[SkylineArch]

Like we say in my Country: 'it is ok to bend over a little from time to time but never too much so you show your balls'

 

Hahaha

[innerdream]

Actually, I think it's only like $18 more to build an iPhone in the U.S. vs. China, but $18x a million phone adds up for investors.

 

I'd say there are a couple of solutions:

1. Have the "3rd world" artists charge more, so they make more and bring the overall fees back up

2. Sell yourself/company more on service than the end product

 

The problem with option 1 is that one guy will change a dollar less then his competition, then someone will under cut him, and eventually we are back to where we are, besides, industry price fixing is frowned upon, if not illegal.

 

Option 2 will more than likely work itself out naturally. As companies work with vendors in other countries, they will realize how cumbersome it is to communicate and work with different time zones and convey Architectural styles and practices and try a local company at some point and discover the price difference may be made up with time and hassle.

 

Then there is option 3, work at McDonalds.

 

Option 3 is what I'm taking, I'm leaving the business entirely. I didn't spend my entire life in a field to make $10.00 an hour.

[Andres Saarnak]

Andres, I understand your point, but to me is not black and white really. If someone asks you to do an image/video for them it is because they saw your work and they like it. They see a difference between you and the other guy, then it is logic that your price comes with everything you can offer.

Yes, that´s what I meant. If a (western) client chooses a 3D guy who makes 100$ renderings they are not looking for the best quality. And quality is not only in technical or artistic skills but as you said also in the correct landscaping and so on. So my point is, clients are actually choosing the quality of the 3D images when choosing a 3D guy.

Though I have seen a 3D company in my country advertising with stolen images and this is tricking a client into buying something they can´t offer.

 

To your example, that guy who lost his $2K bike, he'll bid for a rendering for $100 while I bid $1K, the project is about $1M the contractor chooses him and pay the $100, did the guy really won??? what if he also charged $1k he will be half the price of the Bike already. That's why to me the system is wrong, Why he needs to be content with less, way less. Let's do the typical competition of $900 vs $850 but not $100 vs $1K that's wrong for you and for me. While the Mr 1M project dude still charging 1M.

It´s wishful thinking. If guys who charge 100$ per image could compete when charging 500$ they would do it. It´s very easy for me to ask you to charge 5 times more than you are now, but how much work would you get?

[Andres Saarnak]

2. Sell yourself/company more on service than the end product

//

 

Option 2 will more than likely work itself out naturally. As companies work with vendors in other countries, they will realize how cumbersome it is to communicate and work with different time zones and convey Architectural styles and practices and try a local company at some point and discover the price difference may be made up with time and hassle.

This.

A good personal relationship can make a difference.

I have tried to outsource some work to lower income countries, but it is so time-consuming to the point of being pointless.

 

Option 3 is what I'm taking, I'm leaving the business entirely. I didn't spend my entire life in a field to make $10.00 an hour.

You should try to be the middle man. You charge 200$, outsource this work to 3rd world for 100$. Profit. ?

[SkylineArch]

It´s wishful thinking. If guys who charge 100$ per image could compete when charging 500$ they would do it. It´s very easy for me to ask you to charge 5 times more than you are now, but how much work would you get?

If the person doing renderings for $10 could/would charge $100 to U.S. based clients they would get it... charge what they are willing to pay, what the market price is. But then again, someone will do them for $90. Personally, it make me more sad that people are doing work for so much less than they could be making on it than it does about losing work to someone in another country. Heck, most renderings I see from other countries look better than mine anyway.

[innerdream]

This.

A good personal relationship can make a difference.

I have tried to outsource some work to lower income countries, but it is so time-consuming to the point of being pointless.

 

 

You should try to be the middle man. You charge 200$, outsource this work to 3rd world for 100$. Profit. ?

 

Too many headaches not enough money.

[gautehatlem]

Good job freelancers in the 3rd world you have now made this profession less lucrative than a job at McDonalds.

 

SOLUTION: find clients who know quality (that is if you provide it) in all aspects of the viz. Sell your local "know how" a guy sitting in his basement in china do not have the same feel for vegetation or latest trend in interior. All countries has an uniq style..sel that!

I have just finished a project were the client were fed up and frustrated by a chines company...it was cheap and it lookd likewise, not to mention all the time he used trying to make them understand his vision.

[innerdream]

SOLUTION: find clients who know quality (that is if you provide it) in all aspects of the viz. Sell your local "know how" a guy sitting in his basement in china do not have the same feel for vegetation or latest trend in interior. All countries has an uniq style..sel that!

I have just finished a project were the client were fed up and frustrated by a chines company...it was cheap and it lookd likewise, not to mention all the time he used trying to make them understand his vision.

 

I don't disagree but in my experience there are too many artists that do good work that sell themselves and the industry short. Once the price comes down it's near impossible to raise it.