15 interior renderings for $100.00 to $150.00

[heni30]

SOLUTION: find clients who know quality (that is if you provide it) in all aspects of the viz. Sell your local "know how" a guy sitting in his basement in china do not have the same feel for vegetation or latest trend in interior. All countries has an uniq style..sel that!

I have just finished a project were the client were fed up and frustrated by a chines company...it was cheap and it lookd likewise, not to mention all the time he used trying to make them understand his vision.

 

Totally agree. I'm just finishing up a re-do of a cheap rendering.

 

I really think there is a dearth of clients who value quality in developing countries. That's where the problem lies. You can't just switch to a better client if there aren't too many where you are located.

[philippelamoureux]

I've decided to move to web development. The job offer is so high in my city compared to 3d artist/modeler jobs it's not remotely comparable. I've only spent 2 years of my life learning/producing 3d stuff but it might not be completely in vain since 3d will eventually come to the web heh!!! (i.e webgl)

 

A neat example is the tomb raider 1 game running in your browser!

[Chris MacDonald]

In the past 8 or so years of doing 3D (professionally) I can safely say that things have only got more and more busy. More directors want CGI's, more clients want CGI's, more councils/planners want CGI's and the general public want more CGI's. In our practice it used to be viewed a a kind of luxury product that clients with deep pockets would buy into, but now almost every project gets some kind of CGI, even if it's just a basic Sketchup.

[innerdream]

I've decided to move to web development. The job offer is so high in my city compared to 3d artist/modeler jobs it's not remotely comparable. I've only spent 2 years of my life learning/producing 3d stuff but it might not be completely in vain since 3d will eventually come to the web heh!!! (i.e webgl)

 

A neat example is the tomb raider 1 game running in your browser!

 

Good luck man, wise choice imo.

[Ernest Burden III]

Once the price comes down it's near impossible to raise it.

 

That is true. What many of you may not know (being youngsters) is that happened in NY (the US's top market for rendering then and now) in 1991. There was a bad recession that hit architecture extra hard. I watched clients go from 400 people to 35. When people I worked with would call me, it was not to hire me, they wanted to know if I knew of any firms that were looking for people. They figured that renderers knew who had work. Few did. That recession was very damaging.

 

When there was work, architects would say "I only have $1500" for a rendering that a year earlier they would have paid $4500 for. So the renderers had to work for much less or not work at all. This was not the fault of Chinese or Indian renderers. It was probably the fault of real estate speculators and/or the architectural client's own willingness to work for anything or nothing just to be doing architecture. So we adjusted what we did. Renderings went from 20"x30" carefully detailed pieces (the hand version of photorealism) to 10"x16" sketchy, artistic work. The other factor pushing the size down was the new Canon color copier. Renderings had to fit on the scanbed for quick, cheap reproduction.

 

The response to falling rendering fees was to re-invent our work. To my thinking, the work got better. It took until close to the 2008 financial meltdown for the fees for a typical rendering to recover to the pre-1991 rates. And then the floor fell out. Again. Only worse.

 

The clear lesson is: re-invent your work or yourself.

 

Now, note that the valuation of the real estate projects that we help realize keep climbing and climbing. Why is there not enough money for the renderers who contribute to earn a decent living?

[innerdream]

Now, note that the valuation of the real estate projects that we help realize keep climbing and climbing. Why is there not enough money for the renderers who contribute to earn a decent living?

 

A couple of things I think, one Architects fees are going down they face being a commodity too. Second is once you set a industry standard such as $500.00 for a house exterior then that is what is expected regardless of where you live.

[philippelamoureux]

While we discuss prices for 3d ''art''....

 

Basquiat recently sold a single piece of art for 110 millions.

 

Time to move to traditional arts lol!

Edited May 27, 2017 by philippelamoureux

[Josef Wienerroither]

Time to move to traditional arts lol!

 

You would have to die first to achieve those prices, of course

[innerdream]

You would have to die first to achieve those prices, of course

 

Time to brush up on faking my own death I see!

[himanshuchoudhary]

You would have to die first to achieve those prices, of course

 

Maybe there are hundreds of painters complaining on a similar forum, about how there are street artists giving away paintings for 20-50 euros. You need to be someone like Basquiat, to sell work for such price and the same follows with our field. I dont see people from MIR or Luxigon or DBOX complaining..

[innerdream]

Maybe there are hundreds of painters complaining on a similar forum, about how there are street artists giving away paintings for 20-50 euros. You need to be someone like Basquiat, to sell work for such price and the same follows with our field. I dont see people from MIR or Luxigon or DBOX complaining..

 

My mother didn't complain when her boyfriend beat the crap out of her either. Those companies are at the top of the field and maybe have 50 people combined so that's not a good analogy.

[himanshuchoudhary]

My mother didn't complain when her boyfriend beat the crap out of her either. Those companies are at the top of the field and maybe have 50 people combined so that's not a good analogy.

 

i think MIR has 12-13 employees

 

What i am trying to say was in reference to the cost of the painting. People who are the top of the field, dont worry about the situation as much, was the point. Competition will definitely increase and we need to match up to it. My studio had its 'bad year' when the main client stopped giving us work. We had to change the strategy and give them either a cheaper offer, or increase our quality to a level such that they wont think of going to the asian markets.

[himanshuchoudhary]

I, myself am from India. And since i have been working in europe from the last 4-5 years, i can promise you, there is a huge differene in the quality and especially, the guarantee for the work which comes out of my country and here. I have seen people promoting there websites using my renders, but will fail miserably when it comes to producing that quality, IF the need arises from a client.

[innerdream]

i think MIR has 12-13 employees

 

What i am trying to say was in reference to the cost of the painting. People who are the top of the field, dont worry about the situation as much, was the point. Competition will definitely increase and we need to match up to it. My studio had its 'bad year' when the main client stopped giving us work. We had to change the strategy and give them either a cheaper offer, or increase our quality to a level such that they wont think of going to the asian markets.

 

In my experience increasing quality does not retain a client at a premium price when they can get "good enough" for less. The bulk of the work in the industry is not the premiere jobs that DBOX and others get it is the run of the mill project.

[himanshuchoudhary]

I also know a couple of guys back home who have amazing quality and talent, but work for very less (almost 80-100 dollars/image). Turns out, these guys get jobs from studios from around Scandinavia/EU as freelancers and they are much cheaper than employing a person within these countries. So in a way, even the studios who are employing them are at fault.

[innerdream]

I also know a couple of guys back home who have amazing quality and talent, but work for very less (almost 80-100 dollars/image). Turns out, these guys get jobs from studios from around Scandinavia/EU as freelancers and they are much cheaper than employing a person within these countries. So in a way, even the studios who are employing them are at fault.

 

Yep, survival makes people do things that they probably would be better off not doing.

[Sho-Time1]

Hi Robert M. While I don't necessarily disagree with the things you've said...I am curious as to where you are and if you have any examples of your work?

[innerdream]

Hi Robert M. While I don't necessarily disagree with the things you've said...I am curious as to where you are and if you have any examples of your work?

 

Los Angeles - I'm certainly not the best in the business but better than $10.00 an hour!

Edited May 30, 2017 by innerdream

[Sho-Time1]

Yea 10 an hour is un-acceptable!! Especially you being in LA which is a crazy market. However, I look at places such as steelblue which is located in the California market and it gives me hope that with the right business plan, a great product, and the economic vitality of a boomiing city such as San Fran/ The Bay area...working in a larger firm is the way to go imo.

[innerdream]

Yea 10 an hour is un-acceptable!! Especially you being in LA which is a crazy market. However, I look at places such as steelblue which is located in the California market and it gives me hope that with the right business plan, a great product, and the economic vitality of a boomiing city such as San Fran/ The Bay area...working in a larger firm is the way to go imo.

 

This is a business for younger people, I did my time in the barrel. I don't have the desire to work 60 hours a week anymore in a Architecture firm or 3D firm. Personally I only wanted to make enough money to leave the field altogether, the Architecture field that is, but my plan didn't pan out as I had hoped. So, now I'm leaving the field anyhow but not in the fashion I wanted to.

[skala67]

It does seem like this conversation pops up every year. Sometimes it can get nasty and sometimes it can be very constructive. This thread is one of the better ones.

 

That being said, my experience over the past 20 years in the viz biz has shown me that in order to survive, its not just about creating the perfect image/movie for the client, but also about building client relationships. I have found that if you are completely transparent throughout the process, listen to what it is they want, and deliver a successful product in the (always too short) amount of time they require, that they tend to see the value of the work and return to you for your services. You treat them as if you are all in this together and you become part of the team. My clients tend to be primarily Architects and Developers and the work is mostly medium to large commercial or multifamily residential. This pocket allows for me to charge a "normal" amount for my work due to the fact that my client is not the one directly paying for my services. The size of the project also helps in that what I charge does not look like much compared to the overall design service budget. Many of my clients already know what I charge and work that into their proposals so that there are no surprises right from the start. It is really up to us to define the value and to educate our base locally, because we can not change how it works globally. If someone asks you, "how do you compete with the companies charging $150?", the answer should be, "I don't".

This industry is not an easy one to crack, and it takes a lot of kissing hands and shaking babies and I wish you all luck. We all need to continue to support one another, no matter where we do our work.

[innerdream]

It does seem like this conversation pops up every year. Sometimes it can get nasty and sometimes it can be very constructive. This thread is one of the better ones.

 

That being said, my experience over the past 20 years in the viz biz has shown me that in order to survive, its not just about creating the perfect image/movie for the client, but also about building client relationships. I have found that if you are completely transparent throughout the process, listen to what it is they want, and deliver a successful product in the (always too short) amount of time they require, that they tend to see the value of the work and return to you for your services. You treat them as if you are all in this together and you become part of the team. My clients tend to be primarily Architects and Developers and the work is mostly medium to large commercial or multifamily residential. This pocket allows for me to charge a "normal" amount for my work due to the fact that my client is not the one directly paying for my services. The size of the project also helps in that what I charge does not look like much compared to the overall design service budget. Many of my clients already know what I charge and work that into their proposals so that there are no surprises right from the start. It is really up to us to define the value and to educate our base locally, because we can not change how it works globally. If someone asks you, "how do you compete with the companies charging $150?", the answer should be, "I don't".

This industry is not an easy one to crack, and it takes a lot of kissing hands and shaking babies and I wish you all luck. We all need to continue to support one another, no matter where we do our work.

 

I agree with most of that. I am running into clients and associates I have done business with for decades lying to me about retainers and final bills, nickle and diming me over everything to the point where I spend more time chasing them for money than working on their projects. The business in the last 20 years has really changed from when I started out. It' no longer worth my time, that's for me personally.

[skala67]

That is unfortunate. Probably helps that I know where most of my clients live ha.

In all seriousness though, are you finding that happening with large corporate firms or with small to one person firms, or both?

[innerdream]

That is unfortunate. Probably helps that I know where most of my clients live ha.

In all seriousness though, are you finding that happening with large corporate firms or with small to one person firms, or both?

 

Both. When I worked at Gensler their policy for paying vendors was you get paid when we get paid. A lot people I know have that same mentality only they don't tell you that when they hire you, they just lie and jerk you around. I build Architectural models and did a job for someone I have known for 30 years they said they would bring a check when they picked up the model...no check. I had to chase them for an additional 3 weeks to get paid and threaten small claims action. This hasn't been the exception lately it's been the norm.

[skala67]

Wow, that is rough. I haven't had that problem and hope that it stays that way, but I'm also not all sunshine and rainbows and realize that it can happen. Most of the clients I have now, pay within net 10 to net 30. If they are large firm it needs to go into their monthly billing, so it all depends on where in the cycle I invoice. None of the larger clients have the Gensler policy. That is odd for a firm so large? For the smaller clients, if they have proven to be on time (net 10) over our relationship, I have given them slack occasionally if they are a little late.

 

Well Robert I wish you best of luck on your next endeavor. Sounds like the fun has been sucked out of this for you. May you find something that energizes you.