Detailed and correct windows

[Jon Berntsen]

I bet you've all been discussing it. Extremely good looking windows, with a lot of details and those black rubber bands holding the glass panels. How do you do that?

BIM-objects? Or are you modelling them? Must take ages swap or redrawing detailed manufacture-descripted windows. Do you delete the original windows and swap them with premade window models, which you manually vertex transform?

The windows we get from our drafters are shitty archicad windows, and as per now we can't prioritize changing the windows. We will use too much time that way. If we change object types to any BIM object, the size will change and we'll need to resize windows according to a window scheme, which would increase chances for errors and time spent.

 

Any hints for how people do it?

Edited September 2, 2017 by chroma

[Chris MacDonald]

The sweep modifier.

 

Download some manufacturers CAD details and get rid of all the nonsense bits that you don't see, then just use a sweep modifier to sweep the profile around a spline. You'll need to assign material ID's to the various parts in the profile you're going to sweep.

 

Here's the glazing I created in this topic:

 

http://forums.cgarchitect.com/82201-brewery.html

 

Apologies if materials etc don't load.

 

These windows were Kawneer 451, but there are dozens of other manufacturers that you could use such as Velfac. Just google aluminium glazing system/curtain walling etc. Most will have CAD details though some may be upon request.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Macker

[Nicolai Bongard]

There are some detailed windows for archicad, but not all manufacturers have made their products into GDL objects for use in Archicad. Also, most architects will favor having an easily navigateable 3d model in archicad rather than slow it down with really detailed objects, so you will allmost never get a really detailed 3d model from architects who use archicad. This is especially true when there are middleaged/old architects who doesnt really like computers and have zero interest in experimenting with adding custom objects into archicad. However, if all you need are some detailed looking windows, but it does not really matter what product it is, you can change them yourself pretty fast if you have archicad. Alt+click a window, use the find tool (ctrl +f), then it looks for windows but will select every window so you need to add more parameters such as the dimensions and height from the floor, then you press ctrl + t to open the properties of the windows, and ctrl + alt + click on the detailed window in the object library to transfer all applicable statistics of the windows onto the more detailed one, then press ok. All the selected windows should transform into the more detailed window type object. Repeat for different dimensions so you dont get any mistakes.

 

If this is not possible for whatever reason, what Chris said is the way to go. You can however just make one window, and bind the corner verteces to helper objects/dummy objects, so that you can more easily select those helpers and snap them onto corner holes of the window openings without going into vertex mode every time you have to reshape a window.

[Jon Berntsen]

There are some detailed windows for archicad, but not all manufacturers have made their products into GDL objects for use in Archicad. Also, most architects will favor having an easily navigateable 3d model in archicad rather than slow it down with really detailed objects, so you will allmost never get a really detailed 3d model from architects who use archicad. This is especially true when there are middleaged/old architects who doesnt really like computers and have zero interest in experimenting with adding custom objects into archicad. However, if all you need are some detailed looking windows, but it does not really matter what product it is, you can change them yourself pretty fast if you have archicad. Alt+click a window, use the find tool (ctrl +f), then it looks for windows but will select every window so you need to add more parameters such as the dimensions and height from the floor, then you press ctrl + t to open the properties of the windows, and ctrl + alt + click on the detailed window in the object library to transfer all applicable statistics of the windows onto the more detailed one, then press ok. All the selected windows should transform into the more detailed window type object. Repeat for different dimensions so you dont get any mistakes.

 

If this is not possible for whatever reason, what Chris said is the way to go. You can however just make one window, and bind the corner verteces to helper objects/dummy objects, so that you can more easily select those helpers and snap them onto corner holes of the window openings without going into vertex mode every time you have to reshape a window.

 

Right now I'm experimenting with a couple of sets I've made based on detailed GLD windows. I'm just moving outer sides polys. Works pretty good, and materials are also set up on object import. Else, changing in Archicad would be great too. I thought the windows were resized when you changed into manufacture based GDL-objects, since parameters are not exactly the same, but I'll give it a try! Thanks for the tip.

[Nicolai Bongard]

Yeah usually objects will be resized, however archicad has a function called eyedropper tool (or something) that works by alt clicking to get settings from an object and ctrl+alt clicking to insert those settings onto other objects. Thus you have to be careful that you do this with only windows of the same size, so that some windows will not get changed to the wrong dimensions. This also works in the object library menu.

 

For further help with linking the corner geometry to dummys in 3ds max you should check out some tutorials on "link xform".

[Jon Berntsen]

Yeah usually objects will be resized, however archicad has a function called eyedropper tool (or something) that works by alt clicking to get settings from an object and ctrl+alt clicking to insert those settings onto other objects. Thus you have to be careful that you do this with only windows of the same size, so that some windows will not get changed to the wrong dimensions. This also works in the object library menu.

 

For further help with linking the corner geometry to dummys in 3ds max you should check out some tutorials on "link xform".

 

I'll check into link xform, if it is more exact than moving vertices. It sounds like a potential nice toolset to add to our detailed window creation in max. Thanks.

[notamondayfan]

I do what @macker does, sweep modifier the profiles. You can then re-size and re-use when you need to. You can even instance the Sweep modifier, so any changes to the profiles are updated over every window.

 

Also, RailClone can be used to create windows in a similar way.

[CliveG]

In a way for me, the modelling is almost the least time consuming part of this question.... it's the mapping when I start manipulating my windows!

 

I run multiple mapping for each window, real world and randomised and un-randomised full tile:

 

Real world for things like those tricky little perforated glazing bars that separate double glazing panes and also brushed Ali's if req'd.

 

Full tile for the barrelling effect on each individual pane of glass.

 

Randomised for the subtle blotches and fingerprint type things to break up glass reflections.

 

Etc...

 

Is this a noobish question - but how do you guy's efficiently handle that stuff, 'cos my way is anything but efficient?

 

(2017 max couldn't open your 2018 file Chris so sorry if I could have deduced this from the window model you linked to)

[Lewis Garrison]

The method I use is pretty easy. I inset a plane, or if its a curtain wall inset by polygon. Detach the insides for my glass. Then just shell the glass and shell the frame to their proper thicknesses. In the shell options you can check "Bevel Edges" and under "bevel spline" where it says "none" you can select a window profile you've drawn. It will automatically use that profile as the shell. I have some window profiles saved but most of the time I just quickly draw a spline on the spot. Then just use a multi sub material for all the different parts.

[Jon Berntsen]

Interesting ways to solve the same problem. Last year, I looked into the same case, and downloaded two BIM models from a manufacturer from www.bimobject.com . I then added materials to the windows, one of them a self made metal sting material (or whatever it's called - the metal stripe between the glass panes, and detailed with those black rubber bands etc. And saved the windows as max files. I forgot them since.

 

On the project I'm working on now, I tried the process with deleting current windows and replacing them with my custom ones, and dragging the outer frames to manually scale the window to fit in the hole.

 

Road goes: A to B to C, where A is drafter model, B is starting in our 3d software, and C is final result.

The road A to B is different for us.

The road B to C seems likely that it's best to reuse already setup window objects.

 

Looks like it would take a lot of time changing windows in archicad, for so to setup materials on those windows in max, since alu strip, rubber and etc needs to be detailed every time, in such case.

 

I think I will stick to the bimobject site, detailing window types in max, adding to my max library every time I get to work with new types of windows - and then reuse, and move frame vertices. Worked like charm on this project anyway. The details are fantastic!

Edited September 7, 2017 by chroma

[notamondayfan]

In a way for me, the modelling is almost the least time consuming part of this question.... it's the mapping when I start manipulating my windows!

 

I run multiple mapping for each window, real world and randomised and un-randomised full tile:

 

Real world for things like those tricky little perforated glazing bars that separate double glazing panes and also brushed Ali's if req'd.

 

Full tile for the barrelling effect on each individual pane of glass.

 

Randomised for the subtle blotches and fingerprint type things to break up glass reflections.

 

Etc...

 

Is this a noobish question - but how do you guy's efficiently handle that stuff, 'cos my way is anything but efficient?

 

(2017 max couldn't open your 2018 file Chris so sorry if I could have deduced this from the window model you linked to)

 

Mapping is easy. With sweep, you can give mapping coords to the geometry, so they follow the path. Then use UV Xform to adjust the tiling.

 

For other things, like the glass, depending on level of detail, I would use large noise maps, or before rendering the final image, manually create maps for the windows.