Cheaper Software?

[Aaron2004]

Hey all,

I"ll be graduating from my college soon, which means that I don't get any more student discounts for 3D Studio....so I need to buy the real version. The only problem is I know it's very expensive. I want to use it for Architectural Graphics, and version 7 has implemented even MORE things that would be helpful for me. Because of the former facts, I have a few questions

 

1) Is there a place (besides ebay) where one can buy older versions of software...such as 3D max 6 or VIZ 3?

 

2) I have heard that softimage does a good job with Arhitectural modeling (parametric windows and doors, ect). The cheapest full, legal version of Soft Image runs about $500...this is CHEAP. Is it worth switching programs...has anybody had experience?

 

3) Are there any tutorials on line (for free) that walk you through modeling a whole house (especially roof compenents) in max? I have always done my house modeling through a program called 'Vertex' which creates the house in 3D and allows for .3DS export, so I have little experience with modeling a house in max EFFICIENTLY.

 

 

Thanks!

 

Aaron

[mbr]

If I didn't already have so much invested in Max, I would switch. I personally think that there are several things that Discreet does to make it more difficult to use older versions (no down saving, as there is with just about every other programs, including Autocad) and IMPOSSIBLE to transfer licenses (so forget eBay, unless you can confirm with Discreet that the copy has NEVER been registered - which I did, actaully, I bought my copy from someone that won it and preferred Softimage, ironically).

 

I would look at it and look at Cinema 4D, which many users on here could give you a better opinion on, but lookst like a great value (I am a fan of modular purchases, too - Character Studio?? I still cringe thinking that something useless to me gives 'value' to the outrageously priced Max!).

 

Discreet will lose customers, soon, due to all this.

[tuekappel]

if it's any consolation, a 3dsmax license will set you back around US$ 5600 over here.......one of my friends actually planned to establish a temporary adress at a friends', in the States, just to get the cheaper license. The ticket would be paid for, by the difference in price...

He then almost bought a "used" Max 4 license, for around US$1000; with all the upgrades it would still be US$1500 cheaper than a "new" Max7....but i guess that's what mbr is referring to: Is it really IMPOSSIBLE to transfer licenses?

[William Alexander]

Aaron,

 

It's tough to find it legally cheap. Looking at other software is a very good idea. If you need to stay integrated in the Autodesk pipeline C4D does not like autocad dwg files.

 

Another app to watch is Modo. Right now it's more of a subD surface charactor modeler, but the interface and workflow is very quick for polygonal arch modeling, though no import for dwf & dwg as of yet and you still need a rendering engine. That will change!

 

 

 

 

 

Discreet will lose customers, soon, due to all this.

you can't please everyone all the time. Autodesk tried by adding the 'Arch' oriented parts to Max. The reality with backwards compatibility is two fold. The first is that your tied to the anchor of the past oversights and problems. The second is really how long is backwards file compatiblity useful to forward development of a program.

 

There are plugins for reverse compatibility, if needed. But you loose any improvements in the newer versions to go back?

 

 

Viz is perfect for ArchViz. I just don't understand why individuals upgrade to Max without realizing that it is a full blown tool that is primarily oriented to the broad range of CG and VFX uses, with the associated price tag. Then complain about it? Not intented to be a crit, rather an observation.

[Sketchrender]

Hi

I am right in thinking that there was post a short time ago,saying that viz was going to be retired?

I am almost certain it was.

 

I would have to agree about the ouragous cost of max, what i find interesting is that all the guys on this cg site have max which is 4-5000 euros and then they have also spashed out on final render or vray or brazil.

Who do you guys work for that there are endless budgets, any chance of a job?

 

Softimage is worth a look, the rendering is excellent, I and lets be honest they all model the same way now.

Although it dose not have a direct importer of cad files, you can convert your cad files with deepexploration, and that is cheap enough for what it dose.

 

Cinema 4D is great for rendering but modeling architectural work, PERSONALLY, I don't think it is up to the job, but I took a 94mb dxf of model of highly detailed interior work it to it a while ago from formz and it had no problem with it, and the renders were great and fast too.

 

So, personaly the ease of use and as always when a client comes back and changes something , and you have rereference things back in that you have changed to re-render it, that is were the main problem always kicks in.

I think softimage is one to keep an eye on.

 

But saying all that.....use you student status as long as you can becuase you will be paying through the nose for the rest of your working life enjoy all the kickbacks of being a student for as long as you can.

 

 

phil

[mbr]

I understand that arguement for not having something backwards compatible, but I don't see why anyone should be concerned if you lose features downsaving, obviously you will but it wouldn't matter because you would be opening it in an older version anyway.

 

I will be using Max 7 in this office soon, but don't have that version for my personal copy and don't plan on forking over the cash for the upgrade anytime soon. So I can't work at home if I start in the office. That, to me, is a HUGE inconvenience.

 

The only real arguement that makes sense to me is that it's to force people to upgrade. No biggy if you have someone else paying for it, but when you have to and see no reason to, then it appears as manipulative marketing.

As a long time FormZ user, I am used to down saving to any format I want. I would always down save when giving files to clients to ensure compatibility. Never once was there a problem. Same goes for Autodesk, which owns Discreet.

 

FormZ just announced a new version and it will support plugins, I hope that there are some renderers looking at a new market. It's by far the best arch modeler I've used, with rendering (and animations) being it's only downfall.

 

Final Render and Vray are coming out with stand alone renderers, so programs like Modo, which looks promising, could be ideal answers. In a time when every program has a billion things and only 5 that are used by most users, we need to see companies addressing what we need, not what they think we need.

[lambros]

Well, I have used extensively Viz and Max at the office, but when it came to going freelance, I really could not afford buying 5 licenses for my own office. That would be more that 23500 euros here in Greece for max, and about 11000 euros for Viz. Actually, Viz would be an option, but all these rumours about the discontinuing of the software are actually putting me off. So, I bought Softimage foundation which is 560 euros in Greece / license. The software is great, actually, it can import EPS files, so the dwg files can be imported in XSI via this simple transformation. Actually, there are several more different methods to import dwg into XSI.

I have to say though, that it takes a while for the max user to get acquainted with XSI, particulary with the material/shader stuff which was like a cultural shock to me. A really new world. The modeller is great, the viewport navigation is great, the speed is great, the renderer is great (although there are no other options or renderer plug ins for XSI). Mental ray was not my favorite renderer in max, but in XSI there is no other alternative way. BUT, it is greatly integrated with the software, and it really looks appealing. So, XSI is really as good as max, and Foundation even has soft body and cloth simulation included, plus the 5 training DVDs. Actually, I went on and bought the XSI house modelling tutorial found throught the cgarchitect news which gave great hints on how to do the job.

The only drawback I can find in XSI for doing the arch/viz job is the units problem. There are only XSI units, not meters/inches/ft. So one has to be really careful when beggining a new project.

 

On what concerns other software, I have to mention that I have a license of Cinema 4d 6, which is a quite old version, so I tested version 9, which is quite powerful, but I could not get on with it very well. I think that the user interface was not to my liking, but one should try it on his own before jumping to conclusions. The software is ok though and more that enough for the job (plus the renderer is great!). The truth is that the price per module thing is a nice option, but the basic software + the advanced renderer is more pricey than XSI.

 

Finally, I had to figure out what to do with the CAD software. OK, my clients provide me with their dwg files, but I have to clean them up somehow before importing them. Autocad is far too expensive, even the LT edition, so...I bought Intellicad which cost me 111 euros and is a complete Autocad replica. Really, it does everything that Autocad does, the only drawback is that it is a bit slow in the viewport pan/zoom thing, but hey, that IS A BARGAIN!

 

Well, that's all about my case, and I would really like to see Discreet lower their prices, or stopping the Viz rumours and sell it for 500 euros. I would go for that then, but until that moment...XSI gives the best price/features ratio ever. Get all that max has for 1/10 of the price....amazing

[mbr]

Glad to hear from someone that did switch. I hope Discreet is reading at least some of these forums. Being roughly 75% more than the nearest competition (Maya) has to make a difference at some point.

[Sketchrender]

hHs anybody got any good arch renderings that they have completely finished in xsi, I would like to some good work first hand and ask a few questions about it.

 

The price is too good to be true...hope that xsi programmers are reading these threads and implement options soon.

and fix the units simple items for accuracy that will open up a whole new world of cheap and out of the box software that the likes of lightwave have been offering fo yeras now.

 

listen to the users.

 

phil

[IC]

Not EVERYONE here has Max. Some of us wouldn't touch it!

There's quite a few C4D users and a smattering using the other major apps.

You can get quality output from them all.

 

Cinema is catching on but if you buy enough modules to give you what LightWave offers out of the box it costs you more than double LightWave's price tag. (Still a lot cheaper than Max!)

LW also has an excellent modeller and if you add the FPrime plug in, it renders as quickly, if not quicker, than any competitor.

 

Try all the demos and see what you like. Don't be a sheep.

[Aaron2004]

Thanks for the help guys...I think I will download a demo of XSI and try learning the basics over my school's Christmas Break. I am thinking about working for a company who is interested in utilizing some 3D walkthroughs/renders, but hasn't started yet. I hate to have them buy such a hefty piece of software if a cheaper one can do the same job. I mean, let's face it. All I really need this software to do is pretty basic things compared to character studio, physics, ect.

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

Aaron

[IC]

Don't let the price differences fool you.

XSI and Maya have always been considered a level above the other apps in complexity, power and flexibility.

Now that the others are catching up, their prices have dropped so they can compete.

 

Discreet don't have to do that, not because Max is so great, but because they have such a captive audience.

[RyanSpaulding]

I have long wanted to learn Maya. I just cant though...it'd take too much time to learn to be worth it. The Max base has me. It's easier to find help because there are so many people using it.

[ShaunDon]

I used Maya in school. Bear in mind I never got to know it a tenth as well as I know max, so you can take my criticisms with a grain of salt, but I always had a great deal of trouble transfering information over from AutoCAD, and when I could maintaining scale was always an issue... which pretty much nixed my ever using it for architectural visualization. That also was version 5, and it was buggy as hell.

 

Buggy as HELL. Unexplained crashes (well, I'm used to this with max, but at least I have a hokey sense of when I'm about to piss it off) ... and just plain ridiculousness like right-click being disabled when using a window pulled off to my second screen. I'd point this stuff out to my professors asking what I was doing wrong, and they just shrugged and said "get used to it."

 

All that being said, I love the idea of Maya, and I hope one day I can switch. The interface is crazy-cool and I feel so much more l33t using it. Potentially a lot more productive too, if I ever got to using it in production. It gets mad praise from me for trying to move to a hardcore keyboard-driven interface. But right now it's still a second-tier app for arch viz, and until Chaos releases V-Ray for it (never gonna happen at the rate they put software out), I'm stuck.

 

Shaun

[jamiebyers]

I personally support Max myself.. I had a student version at first.. then got into commercial work.. got a $1000 off the price for Max 4.. and just paid the money for it. I wish I would have gotten a subscription back then.. because I started using my company license at work and didn't have much use for my license at home.. and dreaded the $795 upgrade. But.. I finally upgraded recently to Max 7 and now I have a subscription for $440/year. That's not too bad to keep up 3D software yearly.. plus I find Max so easy compared to XSI ... I just can't get use to the interface.

 

Viz.. is the other option, they have a new version out which seems identical to Max .. minus the bones system and some IK features. Plus one of the advance lighting features was missing.. But for Architecture.. it's GREAT. But.. if your looking for this or Max.. go to http://www.cadresys.com .. they can at least refer you to a reseller close to you. Other than that.. good luck... Max to me is still the best interface... (just my opinion)