Blender as main 3d software: a viable option ?

[PaZ]

Hi all,

in my office, we're using both 3ds max and Lightwave but we're giving a look to other platforms, and one of these is Blender.

Beside gui, at a first glance it seems it's a really powerful app, very complete.

So question is: which are main limitations one could face going further ? For now i focalized two main issues:

 

- Lack of integration of main engines. While Cycles is good and Vray/corona are useable in Blender, they are not be as integrated as they are in max. I.e. the lack of RT makes their usage a bit "vintage". Any plan you know about to fully integrate one of the two in Blender ?

- Vegetation/environment management is surely one of the most complex and important tasks in archviz. Blender has a lot of tools to help on this, up to local brush-painting of size/density (Forest pack seems more limited on this), but it seems to lack a strong preset system which makes echosystems re-usable. Any info about a good way to save/reuse presets for echosystems created with Blender's particle system ? More generally, any hint for a tool/plugin which helps on this within Blender ?

 

Other than this, it would be interesting to know what you guys think about this topic. 3DS max is a big app but lately it gets poor updates, and overall it really needs a rewrite since it starts looking like a load of separate, uncommunicating, buggy pieces put together with no care. This makes it's cost less and less motivated and Max being the "industry standard" seems more due to 3rd part tools than Max itself, so i feel looking for best alternatives out there can be of interest for most achviz artist out there.

 

Thank for your attention,

Paolo

[sameenrajouri]

Hello,

Please someone answer this question. Although its a quite old thread. But I have the same query.

Thanks

[PaZ]

Yes, it's an old thread, but something makes it actual: Max is worsening, updates are poor and it needs a total rewrite like no other app out there. Blender is a fresher app and it's rapidly getting to level. So, same thread may have very different answers now than 1 or 2 years ago.

 

Best

Paolo

[Ernest Burden III]

The problem is going to be finding someone here who actually uses Blender for arch-viz who can answer meaningfully. I can't, and I also don't use Max.

 

If your looking for a different platform with good render engine integration and usability that ISN'T Max, then look at Cinema4D. But the integration with other Autodesk products is not there, of course, and for many people that is critical.

[PaZ]

Sure, C4d is our main alternative to Max. I have a good confidence with C4D, but both Vray and Corona implementation are not up to level - Corona still has not a IPR - and native engine is inferior to Cycles. All of this is due mostly to dumb Maxon's choice to keep a vintage material system. Really, layered materials are primitive and it's impossible to consider C4D if it does not go nodal soon.

Other than this, C4d is a great app, but also vegetation management tools like Forest pack are not found, for what i saw both Forester and Surface Spread are not up to FP, and the lack of a robust preset system prevents a good reusage of echosystems.

 

Paolo

[harryhirsch]

C4D

-C4D will get a node system

-we use Laubwerk and Forester for Landscape

(http://www.laubwerk.com/store/surfacespread/)

(https://www.3dquakers.com/forester-for-cinema-4d/)

Blender

-I have used Blender for archviz as well, as u have said there are lots of tools and preset systems (pro lighting and grass essentials from Blenderguru, https://www.blendermarket.com/)

-The thing that bothers me most about Blender is not the UI design (one can get used to it fast) but the constant change and optimization of the functions/physics etc. so sometimes tutorials wont work from one version to the next.

-imho Blender works just fine for archiviz still images and most renderengines work with blender now as well (Vray, Thea, maxwell, octane...)

-autodesk pricing scheme is a noghtmare ...so... for archiviz stills C4D/ Blender wil ldo just fine!

[PaZ]

Thanks for the reply.

About C4D, i wrote Maxon to ask about nodal and they answered they do not have intention to change their material system anytime soon. Maybe it was a political answer, but that's what i got

I tried Surface Spread and while it's really well-featured, i see that C4D really does not handle a lot of object with ease. 30K instances of a bush, set as Render instance and with display in Bounding Box, were enough to slower Open GL view considerably.

Then i raised instances to 500000 and cinema freezed. It came back after 30 seconds and whatever i did freezed Cinema for other 30 sec.

I have a dual Xeon V3 with 32 GB ram and a quadro K2200. While it's not most performing card on the market, in Lightwave i can set millions of intances in bounding box and it stays very fast and responsive. Same for Max.

 

So i really do not know what to do with Cinema... as i read around on forums, it seems many users have issues with large object number or many instances, and it really seems bad large-number management is a rooted Cinema issue.

I love the software itself, so easy and clean... but if it cannot handle easily millions of instances, Cinema is not the option for me.

Maybe forester is more performing, but i do not think it can be much better - i also tried to do same with Mograph Cloner and i got same behaviors.

I ask if you and other experienced C4D users are meeting same issue.

 

Thanks

Paolo

[mattcooper]

Have you considered Maya? I use Max at my current studio but have used Maya for many more years, and it's an incredible piece of software, the UI isn't too different from Max's, and it looks and feels a lot cleaner and modern compared to Max, if that's something that's important to you.

Edited November 17, 2017 by mattcooper

[psv1]

The problem is going to be finding someone here who actually uses Blender for arch-viz who can answer meaningfully. I can't, and I also don't use Max.

 

If your looking for a different platform with good render engine integration and usability that ISN'T Max, then look at Cinema4D. But the integration with other Autodesk products is not there, of course, and for many people that is critical.

 

Well i do:)

 

To give a short answer :Yes

 

I useit in the past 6 years with very good results:

It has very good :

a)Stability with large scenes and in general (almost 0 crashes)

b)decent viewport performance

c) a great render engine :Cycles

d)great modeling tools

e)costs no money

f)imports dxf from Autocad software

and more

here`s a link to some animations i made with it

https://vimeo.com/user34876443/videos

regards

Sorin

[PaZ]

Matt - Maya has not same features and plugins, so if i would ever go autodesk - with the amount of money they ask - i would go Max. Even the Forest pack-railclone things are missing in maya so not a tool i can consider atm.

 

Sorin - thanks, nice works. I still have to see if someone will develop a scatter tool as good as forest pack, then Blender would be a no-brainer.

 

Paolo

[psv1]

Thanks Paolo,

also you should know that those are my projects as i`m an architect , and the videos are a one man effort .

I cut a lot of corners for those and with a bit more effort and a bit more time the results could be better.

If you are doing archviz as the main line of work it could be a different story.

The main advantage for Blender and i repeat that... is stability with huge, i mean really complex scenes .....i was amazed of how things are much easier in Blender from that point of view than in Max

Also the installer is 180-200 mb so the program is light it works even if you don`t wanna instal just copy it.

I`ve also used a few time max since mainly to open and save old scenes and it seems the same for me .

Cheers

Sorin

[harryhirsch]

In terms of Blender you should ask these questions to a proper Blenderforum like Blenderartist or Blendernation...they have websites with forum and a Facebook page. There must be good C4D pages as well...

[Joseph Petrino]

I just stumbled across this post so sorry if I'm coming in late.

 

I currently use Blender & Cycles for Arch Viz after using Max & Vray for many years.

I will retire soon and I just don't want to pay for Autodesk anymore. Change is good.

 

I am convinced that Blender works just as well as Max. The interface is weird, but if you go with it very easy to use with some clever tools.

The Blender community is young and energetic just like the Max community used to be.

 

The problem is Cycles not Blender. Cycles is painfully slow even with all the speed-up ideas people have. GPU is much faster but Vray still kicks Cycles butt any day of the week. Cycles is very easy to use and looks wonderful.

 

The good news is that embree is on the way for Cycles. This might change the balance.

 

I made the switch. No going back.

 

Hope this helps.

[killianmurphy]

Hello,

 

Just another +1 for blender, I have been using Blender to create visuals for climbing wall installations and have found it to be brilliant. just to note there is going to be a huge UI overhaul coming towards the end of the year with some big changes to how it manages some of features that you mentioned.

 

Best thing to to do is download it and find some tutorials on youtube (theres loads) to help you get round the UI after that it should be simple.

[ipixelrenders]

+1, adding: take into account that actually it´s possible to do out of core opencl gpu rendering with cycles

[michaelkernohan]

I haven't posted on this forum for a long time but I'm a big +1 for Blender! Been using if for archviz both personally and professionally for about 10 years! As far as my experience goes it matches 3ds max in every way.

 

However I will come back to what my joiner/carpenter father used to say 'its not the tool but the person welding it that gets the best results! Every tool used by a 3d artist has the potential to be the best the question is how much time will u dedicate to perfecting it!

 

From my perspective Blender is a fantastic 3d program and up there with the industry standards! Check out my instagram to see my results https://www.instagram.com/threepointvisuals/ all but I think 3 of these images were made in blender.........and the odd bit of photoshop obviously ��

 

I'm not saying these are the best or industry standard but they are my experience of blender and cycles.

 

Hopefully my thoughts help some of you. And if I'm wrong please let me know ��

[Jose Negrete]

Hi all,

 

Sorry for coming in late on this. I don't currently use Blender but I am learning it to try to incorporate version 2.8 to my workflow. I currently use 3DS Max (13 years) + Corona. I am wondering from those of you that do render with cycles if you are using filmic-blender?

[benjames]

I've been following the development of Blender lately....it's getting really good...and clearly has a really bright future. I believe that it has the potential to become the industry standard 'suitcase' for all the potential plugins that might extend it's capability in any direction. I've been in arch-vis for 8 years or so. The main thing that would keep me using 3Ds max is Forest Pack & Railclone ( & a few other plugins), not to mention that it can import most 3d file types off the shelf.

A lot of 3Ds Max's useful functionality comes from external developers.

It seems to me that if all the industry scripting gurus out there got enthusiastic about Blender, & brought it up a level, companies like Autodesk would either have to innovate or drop their prices. I think every industry professional should play with Blender on the side.

Some of the things I'm missing in blender are:

* The spline editing and modifier tools. This will no doubt change as node based procedural modelling is planned for blender...(see animation nodes plugin ) It's only inevitable that a tool like Rail Clone will develop. Drawing splines and objects, rather than just modifying a spline piece. Also, being able to fuse vertices on a spline rather than closing the spline...adding fillets ect to splines. that really needs work in blender.

* Flooroard generator plugin ( someone has coded a basic version in Blender it's not quite there.

* The extensive list of modifiers in Max....again...this might change with 'Everything Nodes' planned for Blender.

* Forest Pack...some genius will figure out how to display point cloud like proxies in Blender....Perhaps Too will make the plugin themselves.

Blender has hit a tipping point though....the enthusiasm around it will explode exponentially with the release of 2.8.

We need to start a new 'software religion' & convince Max, Maya & C4d users just to get interested in Blender - Haha!

[Jason Luckett]

Just tried blender and it looks pretty good..... except the undo is broken, pretty fundamental that one. Otherwise love the interface etc.

[tuomasmammela]

Developers are very aware of the undo and it's going to get fixed.

 

Blender 2.8 is a game changer. I'm using it professionally and I know I'm not alone. Ecosystem is getting better with great plugins. Modeling tools are really productive. Cycles could be faster for interiors but it's getting better already. I must say I'm biased, because I have used Blender first time when I was a kid. Never really liked 3ds Max or Maya, but I must say until 2.8 Blender was not great from all aspects.