Retirement....

[Corey Beaulieu]

I have a question for the group.... Do we yet know what retirement looks like in this industry? I am 20-25 years out by American standards so this is less of a question of personal planning and more of a curiosity. Where does this lead? Do we stay artists for a lifetime mired in production cycles? Perhaps we grow to manage a team or the more brazen of us begin our own companies and launch a career in "business." But do we see this industry widening so much that we can sustain all of us rising up as we also make way for and mentor new talent?

We are no doubt fighting against the capacity of technology to take our jobs. The artists within us will no doubt bob and weave in that fight and use our talent to stay relevant and ahead of the game, but are we meant to grind it out? Is there a longer target to aim for? 

I'm in the game and doing the work in front of me. I'm not the guy who is going to start a company and I'm not worried in the immediate of where I am headed, but age is a part of life and at a decade in this industry I've never known anyone to retire. Those at work who are above me are in the business longer as you might expect, but they aren't that much older than me. I don't see see an end yet and haven't been privy to example, but I do wonder. 

So I am asking, what are others seeing/thinking about their own retirements? Their own futures?

[Tommy L]

Retirement, I'd snap your arm off for a good answer! For most I'm guessing its a mix of 401k, property value gamble and just putting some aside like any other industry. Ive only seen one company be sold, but there may be more. I was very surprised to see that sale happen. So thats the thing, if you run a studio (as I do) there is not really an exit strategy. Like you mention you just keep grinding along on the same trajectory. In a small studio its also fairly difficult to continue to evolve. The margins are small, so the tendency is to just keep doing what pays the bills. Alot of the 'golden age' studios (DBox, The Mill, Digital Kitchen etc) morphed into pseudo ad agencies and the founders became visual directors, effectively distancing themselves from architectural rendering per se and greatly increasing both capacity and revenue. I would not call that retirement, but higher revenue and retirement are surely joined at the hip.

Another consideration (fo both owners and employees) is just how many studios are super-exposed to economic ups and downs. Rather like architects I guess. The most recent economic phase has been a 10 year growth. It makes it easy to forget the hard times, I'm guessing a large percentage of studios have only experienced boom. I am in my 40s and I have no particular strategy to retire, but I founded my company in the last recession so I know its all about knocking on doors and finding new contacts when its rough. How do you do that when everyone has gone to ground with Covid? Alot of studios will lay off alot of people over the next few months. Thats for sure. I saw there is a cgarchitect Covid survey, I'll be interested to see the results of that. 

So, I intended to write an answer here. But I think I also just have questions. 

[Corey Beaulieu]

Thanks for your answer. I work in on of the studios that has gone or is ever growing into a pseudo ad agency direction so I feel more insulated in that diversity, but COVID hasn't been easy on us either. We still very much live in a world of architecture and development. The growing technologies in VR and other immersive products are helping to pull us back to our roots as a viz firm, but that too is just more diversity. 

My thoughts always live in this curious zone of owner/operators being so close in age to the top end employee. So close in functional production experience once you account for their needs to be more business focused and the artists they employ becoming the new realm of quality and speed at the production level. In a true ad agency the smaller companies may stay idol in their growth with owners staying Creative Directors and not widen by generating more opportunities in the CD and AD roles, but their are so many more companies for the lower employees to bounce between. In our industry motion means uprooting your family and heading to new places. A much more lofty thing to consider. 

It's an interesting business, ours. Secretly blue color in a way. We head to the office, wear a business casual, but it's still labor through to the end it seems. Can't all be handshakes and golf games I guess ;D Perhaps that's most industries if we really thought about it.

[Tommy L]

I like the 'secretly blue color' sentiment, thats very true. My wife worked in ad agency world her whole career. We could afford (just) for her to remove herself from that when we had a child. I worked in an architecture practice (the in-house 3d guy). Both of us disliked our environment. She was looked over for being advanced in companies in favor of white male colleagues, was occasionally bullied by the same. I found being the in-house 3d guy at an architecture practice was bottom of the food chain for job satisfaction. Both of these items are also retirement related and apply to alot of people. 

Retirement is a strange thing. Its the goal that kind of keeps us from moving, but being in motion is the only way to develop. I dont mean by moving jobs, I just mean by keeping our horizons broad and our ambition stoked. I became an illegal resident of the US when I moved companies (my H1B status failed to be transferred to my new employer) which forced me to be self-employed. In retrospect it helped me greatly, I had to find clients. 

I guess right now in my career Im still striving for good work than waiting for it to be over. But it does loom somewhat. Especially when things are unstable.

Handshakes and golf. Ha. 

[Iain Denby]

Interesting. I've just hit 60 years old! (f***, how did that happen?) and many of my age group have already retired, so it is something I do think about.

I've worked freelance from a spare bedroom for over 30 years and made good money ...well, up until 2009 when the crash happened.

What happened to me and may happen to others is that I'm now financially secure. I find interest in other things and my work no longer defines me. It means I no longer stress about being up with all the new technologies, study others' work, look to advance my career and also not worry if no work comes in. I'm very fortunate to be in this position, but I also see it as a privilege of having age (there has to be some benefit, surely!)

I don't need to draw a line under my career, I can just carry on until it completely fades out. The only problem I have is renewing my software every year...I need to be sure there will be enough work coming in to justify it.

[heni30]

I too am along in years.  In my younger years I had the good fortune (misfortune?) of being brainwashed about the sanctity of art.  I sowed my wild oats wildly right after architecture school (4 years backpacking in Europe, art school and 10 years doing photography, into guitar playing for a long time (12 Strats) getting my first archtecture related job when I was in my early 30s.   So basically I took care of my bucket list in the beginning instead of at the end.

The point being, in my case, that you focus on what's in front of you and just keep growing.  So I will just keep doing this (could be anything - I like image making) as long as I can.  It might be harder to do if your significant other is more traditional but luckily my wife is a painter so we're on the same wave length.

[Francisco Penaloza]

I think there are many exciting points in your question @CoreyMBeaulieu. Last week, I read something about retirement about not thinking as a 'must' goal but instead a reward whenever you want to use it. I am also an Oldtime here, and it is a good thing that you being in your mid 20's are wandering into this future; when I was your age, I just wanted to gig with my band all around the planet ( we didn't travel much anyway LOL). I got 'serious' about my life also late in life, securing a profession in my earliest 30's. Regarding professional growth, I think that's a given if you are good at what you do, and you are not afraid to showcase it. 

I did freelance for many years until life hit me hard; then I became the 3D guy at an Architectural firm; I have been lucky enough that the company treats me well (knoking wood). Yes, I suffer everything that any other in house artist suffers. Still, I think my experience has help me deal with it and make it comfortable. For example, I haven't work overnights in years. I keep my schedule very consistent. I guess I just became very efficient. 

 

But as you initially question, is there anything else in this profession, and I guess it depends.

Because of my age, I could or should be working on a studio as a creative director or something?; maybe, should I open my own studio? or go back to freelancing? I don't know; perhaps too, it is risky for me now. I am the only income for our family. But I am one of those that would take the jump if I feel like.

In your case, thinking this now is a good thing, yes, our profession is mutating rapidly. Yes, you can succeed in doing what we have been doing for a while, but learning new things and being a pioneer on new tech will also guarantee survival when time is tough. That's what helps me; they mostly hire me because I know how to do that new thing called VR

 

I am more an artist than a business person; maybe that's why my reluctance to try going solo for a while. Perhaps you are more into the business side; in that case, moving between other studios and gaining new positions and experience may be the way to go.

But in the end, doing all that will secure your job stability, then a decent income, and finally retirement can happen when you want, and not when some else tells you that it is time. My dad retired as a sales manager, and now he still works for the same company as a consultant.

[Curtis Walker]

It's an interesting question, and not one I considered at all when I first entered the foray. I came in to this in 2009 in the middle of the last downturn, at the time I had just graduated from my Masters, had a 6 month old and had managed to secure a job as an inhouse visualiser. I hung on to that job for dear life and worked hard to make myself indispensable, retirement wasn't even something on my radar. I'm now 35 and just started my own studio with still no real eye on retirement, and don't think retirement is really a thing for me anymore in the traditional sense. I think I accepted the idea that I would just do this until I was done, or the industry was done with me. My intention is to just enjoy my work and plan to earn enough that I can retire if I so choose, or not, at some unspecified time. I know that seems crazy not to have a plan for it, and considering the planning I put in to mostly everything else, i guess it is. I'm telling myself I'm just experienced enough to make it work, and just the right amount of naïve to not get too hung up on that big old ticking clock haha.

You're right in that there is very few examples of "how its done" in our industry. So I just looked at it like any other industry. You are employed/own a business and stay on until the retirement age putting money aside to cover as comfortable a living as you can afford to. Or you earn plenty money through a successful business(s) and retire whenever you choose with lots of properties etc etc.

We all want to fall somewhere on that vague sliding scale after all. (I deliberately ignored the worst case scenario that goes below that sliding scale.....)

 

[Scott Schroeder]

I'm going to take my meager 401k to the nearest casino and put it all on red. If I win, retire early. Lose, go back to work.

4 step retirement plan

1. Buy Vray
2. Find work
3. ????????
4. Profit.

In all seriousness, I'm finding myself nearing the wrong end of my 30's so retirement is something that is on my mind. I don't think that I ever want to retire in the traditional snowbird in Florida sense, but I also don't think I want to be a 40 hours a week worker either. For me personally, I've built more of a personal retirement savings than rely on 401ks and employer contributions. Things like higher interest rate savings accounts, get that compounding interest rolling and it'll do wonders, to even things like buying gold as that tends to be a pretty good safe bet throughout the years. Apps like Mint or Acorns that round up your spending and send the difference into savings, that stuff adds up over the years if you can keep it going. The struggle, as most people know, is not touching this money and keeping it only for emergency use or retirement but life rarely works that way.

Oh, if only I had listened to my fellow nerds in grad school back in 2007/08 and mined a few bitcoin!

[Iwan Widjaja]

This is very interesting topic! im in my mid 30's , starting my company 5 years ago after 5-7 years become freelancer. Here in Indonesia the market is very stagnan. archviz price is the same for almost 5-10 years. Young talent rise every years while older establish company do diversity and storm the lower end market with their large man power. Some company get "lucky" [ but mostly because their quality is good too ] and focus on offshore market. Singapore and Malaysia market is a bit cruel; so Aussie and US is the "dream". Competing on those part needs lots of lucky and connection for us here.

But in general, here ,actually we can survive with income from archviz industry, as daily expense is relatively low here [ with less than 10 bucks we can get 3x meals a day; rent is around 100-200 bucks a month ]. Maybe retirement in Bali can be alternative for some of you if you love travelling ?   

[heni30]

Bali is nice and a great place to live if you don't mind tsunamis, typhoons, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by heni30
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[Iwan Widjaja]

16 hours ago, heni30 said:

Bali is nice and a great place to live if you don't mind tsunamis, typhoons, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions.

well; thats what life is woth for, the adventure  ?  

Edited November 14, 2020 by Iwan Widjaja

[Chris Harris]

39 years old here. Regarding retirement,  all I think about is I should have listened to my parents and become a plumber after high school. 

[Scott Schroeder]

I always wanted to be a Teamster. 

 

[heni30]

My old boss always used to say he regretted not going with his backup plan - gynecology.

However, being in south Florida, senior citizen center of the country, we knew he wasn't serious.

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by heni30
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[Chris MacDonald]

I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the majority of people had private pensions set up to bolster their state pension? I had a meeting with my pension fund manager last week who seemed to think I was on track to have a decent retirement fund - so it's no something I worry about. The only thing that concerns me long term is keeping money flowing into that pension fund!