Pivot and Modifier issues.

[jamisonlb]

Often I work with architecture projects from sketchup and Revit and they are not always on any sort of axis sometimes random degrees.  Sometimes multiple buildings at all different angles on the site. I cant move and align them with the grid as I need to be able to bring in new parts of the buildings as the project progresses and I need it all to align with the original Revit or sketchup.

Here in lies my problem.  when I create custom grids for each building it allows me to move things and model with working pivots and grids on the grid axis but when I apply any sort of modifier or UVW it will align to the world axis even if I have it setting working or grid or local.  

 

So I have a few questions:

1. First an I just do a batch align of all local pivots to a working pivot? I can align them the object or world but not any way to batch align to a grid or working/custom pivot.  So I usually use the align tool, select a face and then re center the pivots back to their objects.  Is there a simpler way to do this?

 

2.  Once pivots are aligned it doesn't seem to matter how I do it or what setting Im on when I apply a modifier, FFD, UVW whatever is, it sets it to world orientation.  How do I set the world so that modifiers align with the new building axis.  

 

3. or is there another way you deal with multiple models an different axis when dealing with modifiers.  

Edited October 5, 2022 by jamisonlb

[James Vella]

Try using a reset xform modifier before applying the modifier you need. 

 

Questions:

- What modifiers are you using and what do you need them to do?

- Can you import each building into a 3dsmax file, then xref this into your main scene? My thoughts would be if it needs to retain its position and rotation from revit/sketchup then this way when updating components they should come into the same place. In your main scene you can then use a helper to move/rotate the xref object/building. 

 

Generally i do this the other way around but helps to understand your situation a bit more. For example my buildings are parallel to the grid, one building per file. Then in my main scene I xref that building in, move/rotate with a helper. This way when i need to update the building I update it in the parallel/building file, then click update xref in the main scene to see the changes. As long as I didnt move the building itself (only change components) then in the main scene it should keep its new position/rotation but those changes should update (new windows, roof tiles, facade changes, colors etc).

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by James Vella

[jamisonlb]

Maybe this will better explain what is going on.  

So many times there is either multiple buildings or once facade of the building is at an angle.  

And as you all know architecture Sketchup and even Revit models are not always the most clean (wink wink) and need things nudged and stretched a bit to fill small gaps etc.

Or when I have it cleaned I want to apply a UVW to all the, say brick elements on one façade and adjust them all together.  

If that façade or entire building is not aligned to world view.  Now matter how I adjust the pivots or create grids are reset the xform when multiple items are selected and a modifier is applied it will always default to world.  

 

In the attached videos I have just a section of a large facade.  Both are the exact same section of facade. One is how it is imported into 3ds max at a slight angle and the other is that same section copied and rotated to align to world, and you can see how it behaves differently.  

I can apply a modifier to one object and it seems to work fine if I have aligned the pivots but if I select multiple or they are grouped the modifier defaults back to world alignment.

The ideal in my head is these modifiers would apply locally or with the active grid even with multiple items or groups selected.  But in my current setup they do not.  

If the building is square I can rotate the entire building to world (as you suggested) and make all adjustments and then place it back on the site but this is cumbersome and if the Architecture team changes something it doesn't just come back in and align because Ive moved the model.

But the bigger issue is when one facade is at an angle I cant use these modifiers with out manually rotating and aligning each one and even when thats done they dont snap to the edges of the object as they do when its aligned to world. 

 

Have you ever found a solution for this problem?

[James Vella]

Regarding mapping, generally I stick with real-world coordinates / triplanar mapping - this way everything is unified and no need for individual uvw maps. After you set this up initially its a breeze to apply your materials since they are always the correct size.

 

Regarding changes to the model, well this can be a tricky one and comes down to your workflow. Generally I have an additional fee for structure changes - if your architects are in-house that might be a fun topic to deal with. Models that come from other software is used as is, I don't bother adjusting the geometry only add on top of it (in a separate layer that I can switch on/off or adjust later), chamfers can be done with round edges materials etc. If I know the building is going to have a few rounds of changes then I would 'fill gaps' by creating a box and snap/extend the wall and use the material from that wall to fake the extension. This way nothing I'm doing is actually associated with the facade itself giving them the option to adjust a few things, for example.

 

Question: If you are deforming the imported buildings with modifiers don't you have to re do this again anyway when that building is updated? 

 

Modifiers of objects rotated in 3dsmax:

Apply the xform as a modifier, this should align to your objects angle. For example here is the object at default coordinates, flat/front like your windows on the right.

 

Rotate the object and apply xform from the utility panel, then ffd, they dont align.

 

Apply xform as modifier instead, then ffd, they now align.

 

Move the ffd in local mode for that angle.

Edited October 8, 2022 by James Vella

[jamisonlb]

DUDE!  Xform as modifier is what I was looking for.  That did the trick!  Thanks man. 

[James Vella]

Great to hear, good luck 👍