John Dollus Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 Max has better support from AutoDesk if you use AutoCAD. Other than that, the rest is very subjective. I use both in a production environment and they are fairly interchangeable here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 The advantages I see are compatibility. There are simply more model files (furnishings, in particular) and plugins available for Max. But as always, you can do almost anything with the highend packages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archimniac Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 Hi Guys, Really glad to have stumbled into this website from 3D buzz. Especially this website is specifically catered and dedicated for architects and designers. Well, i need advise from all of you; all the experts and experience 3D designers! What are your views on both softwares? As i'm new to the 3D world, i would like to know which is a better and suitable software for architects or like myself to learn? Pro vs Cons? and etc... So hope to hear from you guys! Lastly, Thanks for your time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archimniac Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Hey Thanks guys! :ebiggrin: so far i heard everyone is still for MAx rather than maya. And that view was too echoed in the software forum under MAya . But the schools around States, like the big names Columbia University, Harvard, Yale, heard they are now pushing for Maya rather than max, that's partly why i brought back this questn. And in hope to find the views of the present practising CG Architects of what they think about the 2 softwares? welps, hope to hear from more out there! Actually i thought of another one, what are the core progams that anyone should be equipped to really produce cool CG since there are countless softwares out there but what are the main ones? max + autocad + lightscape + Photoshop? max + maya + autocad + photoshop + Lightscape + houdini +...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 Hi, Here are some useful programs: - a cad or a dwg-exporter/viewer: do you model in cad? or 3d-package? A serious amount of costs can be saved when you only need a viewer like voloview (free from autodesk) instead of a full cad-suite. - a 3d-modelling program: max, c4d, lightwave, maya... - tools/models/plugins? to add trees, cars and people: not really necessary if you make those yourself - GI lightsystem / toon renders if appropriate - photoshop (no need for a general categorie) - painter? can be useful if you do a lot of traditional drawing too. (It's cheaper than a set of oils!) - NLE: adobe premiere, after effects,... if you do animations too - total commander: a good organiser to backup and zip tons of files - ACDSee: a good thumbnail viewer/printer Here is the setup of our firm per person: (it's cost effective as you can see!) - voloview - 3dsmax3.1 - photoshop elements - total commander - ACDSee Additional for general use we have one copy of - autocad LT - photoshop 7 - painter 8 - premiere 6.5 one more tip: Just don't listen to software companies for what you need as they will try to sell more! and another one: If you're in the need for a few autocad licenses, be sure to check out www.bricscad.com, as they have an office license (every one in the firm!) for about 500€ less than one autocad license (you need one for every person in the firm!) You might need to call a dealer to hear more about this new offer. rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archimniac Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 Nisus, I just saw your company - animotion website and it's very cool! and do you guys only use the mentioned softwares? -voloview - 3dsmax3.1 - photoshop elements - total commander - ACDSee - autocad LT (here; why LT rather than purely autocad maybe like 2000, 2002 or even 2004? and what's the diff btwn these plus archicad?) - photoshop 7 - painter 8 - premiere 6.5 Personally, i am totally new to all these softwares and i'm trying to find out what are the recommendd softwares to both learn and master, specifically to cater to architecture needs or maybe in the animation business. what do you think of the following combi mainly for 3d modelling; 1. 3d MAx, autocad, softimage, photoshop, illustrator actually, there are just too many i don't know how to continue. 1. Illustrator 2. Form Z 3. 3D Studio Max 5 4. Maya 5 5. Autocad 2004 6. Cinema 4D 7 7. Houdini 8. Lightwave 9. Lightscape 10.Softimage/XSI 11.Rhino 12.Mental Rays 13.Revit 14. autocad LT So you see, i'm kinda stuck here and don't really know what myself or anyone should master or even learn. What's your view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 Hi archimniac, Yes we only use that software. Anything more is a unnecessary cost imho as it's not about the software, but about the artist... (at least in our opinion) 3d MAx, autocad, softimage, photoshop, illustrator - Why three modelers (max/cad/softimage)? Ask yourself the question how much of the time you will use each? For example: we model everything in max. We import the plans. To review them, we need voloview. Autocad, we only need it to check measurements once and a while. So... buying an autocad-suite for every modeler is a total waist of money... - photoshop / illustrator: you can probably go along with only ps for some time... About your other list... Try to group them: model-applications / image-enhancement / gi-tools / cad Next ask yourself if you would need more than one modeler... rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 Archimnaic, I am a fairly recent grad of UCLA, where (with Columbia) it can be argued the whole Maya thing began. Greg Lynn, one of the Professors there, has been pushing Alias|Wavefront products since the beginning (long before Maya). The reason for this was the power of the dynamics and the nurbs. I am not sure if you are familiar with the Blob movement (which he started), but you can easily see how it required, or rather was the result of, a powerful software. The dynamics system was used to assign 'forces' that would alter the form of the architecture. I am not a fan of his architecture, but his ideas are very interesting and he was a good critic. Just to be clear, these schools (Greg also teaches at Columbia) use this software for design, not for 'visualization' like you find here. Most of his 'renderings' are screen shots, with no lights or materials applied (Maya has a pretty seductive default material, something the folks at Discreet should have noticed - it makes the sale to arch schools much easier, no one has time to 'render' much). The renderings we would do were last minute, as the designs were always much more important than the materials (although we did 'stylize' them somewhat). Max was pushed out of UCLA just as I was leaving. There was a 'debate' between the folks that designed with Form-Z (that's the Thom Mayne/Morphosis crowd) and those that used Maya (the Lynn crowd). Ultimately, though, there are only a small handful of firms that use Maya in the architectural world. Form-Z is pretty much the standard for modeling and Max for rendering (at the places I've worked and those that my friends work at). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 maya sounds enticing because of the name, but imo you will be better off going with max. that does not mean max is the superior software, but in terms of models, plug-ins, tutorials, number of users, ect.. max is the better choice. also, if you are planning on a rendering farm, it will definetly benfit you to go with max. curently, on a daily basis we use... formz photoshop autocad lightwave freehand aftereffects windows media we just got approved to purchase... 3dmax combustion vray sky images, trees maps 3dmax and combustion will be used in place of lightwave and aftereffects, and we eventually hope to do more modeling in 3dmax than formz (but not ditch formz) to streamline the process. it takes time to move files from one piece of software to another. other software that we have, but are used infrequently or never.. microstation illustrator media cleaner vr works old version of electric image Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archimniac Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 I see everyone has different preferences and taste in what they use. But let say not taking into account of restriction/s we have/might have e.g company only has that so we are using it, financial or otherwise. In other words, what's the ideal software/s one would want to obtain n master it to be the "complete CG Artist/architects"? to do designing,drafting,animation,visulaiztion n modeling...Though i understand it's not the softwares that matter the most but the artist himself. However, i'm sure there's specific tools(softwares) they too would either love to work with or is comfortable using it.. e.g: visualztion/modelling- 3D max with lightscape, or either just solely softimage or maya. And even for this category, i'm sure others would use more than 1 or 2 software/s to accomplish the job. drafting- autocad or autocad Lt i guess.. designing: according to mbr; Maya. though some would say Max could do the same job too or even form Z. animation: that i'm not sure but my guess is either softimage or maya? or could it be c4d? any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmoron13 Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 I'm confused as to the point of your questions? Regardless of what people are saying, you seem fixated on what's the "ideal package." There is no such thing. Regardless of how great the packages are, if you can't use them, they're a little more than window dressing. You can make superb rendering with 3ds max 3, or maya 3, etc etc etc. I use 3ds max5.1, photospho 7, and the realviz AEC studio because I form the entire part of my firm's (earthquake engineering Research) visualization dept (if you can call it that), and when I signed on, they allowed me to get what I want ERR needed, but Nisus creates 10-20 times better products on "inferior" software... I have friends who work in animation that swear by 3ds max, and I have friends in Emeryville's Expressions Center for New Media who are devoted Maya users for animations, so it's REALLY UP TO WHAT YOU FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE USING... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archimniac Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 :???: hmm...,schmoron13 i got your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted June 22, 2003 Author Share Posted June 22, 2003 If you are interested in becoming an architectural designer and you are convinced that you need a computer to do that and you are further convinced that you can/should master only one product and are equally convinced that you will base your professional career in the US, then learn... AutoCAD. My reasoning is simple: In the US, AutoDesk has a solid hold on the architectural market. Even considering recent financial results, the company can simply buy any competition willing to take them on (ie SoftDesk, Revit, etc.). Further, AutoDesk is quite obviously trying very hard to bolster their designer-oriented offerings evidenced by the Viz components integrated in the latest incarnation of Desktop. Your chances of finding gainful employment in the architectural field are greatly increased if you have an excellent grasp of managing projects with AutoCAD. In a 3d interview, nobody ever asks "what was the largest square footage project you ever rendered?" As for the 3d 'package of the day' discussion, it is mainly up to the software corporations. Apart from what some people say, it is not a grand college faculty driven design, it is simply money. A few years ago, FormZ made quite an effort getting their program into top rated design schools. They practically gave it away. After a generation of FormZ users was created, they lessened their efforts in that area. After all, most top graduates were now telling all of their employers that FormZ was what they could be most productive at. What more do they need? Alias was quick to pickup on the trend and has been offering much the same hence the 'sudden' adoption of Maya among architectural design institutions. Point of fact, if you are a good designer, it will simply not matter what pencil you pick up. Everything will be a masterpiece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 Originally posted by archimniac: However, i'm sure there's specific tools(softwares) they too would either love to work with or is comfortable using it.. if i have to pick my favorite software even though it is not necessarily what i use daily due to some other app being company standard, or apps just not playing nicely with each other. my prefs on software would be... formz for modeling, i learned formz first, and i comfortable with the way it works. although my faith has faded quickly in the last month. lightwave for rendering and animation, it is fast and responsive, and decently laid out. 3dmax is slow and clunky when compared to it. ...but lightwave would have a plug-in version of vray, it currently doesn't. i have never used vray, but i love the images i see it produce. microstation for drafting. the drafting is more user friendly than autocad, but it is severely lacking in firm functionality (think standards and making people follow them) when compared to autocad. photoshop for textures and post processing renderings. show me an app that compares. i use version 7, but i think 6.5 was better. version 7 seems heavy, which means it will need a re-write of the code soon, meaning a new set of bugs. illustrator for layout. i would use it over freehand now, but illustrator does not do multi-page. even though i like those tools, their is something i would change about all of them. there is a huge combination of tools i could use, but if i had my way that would be the set. they would all be fully integrated with each other so i don't have to spend hours moving files from one app to another when a door location changes. [ June 22, 2003, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: crazy homeless guy ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 I'm confused as to the point of your questions? Regardless of what people are saying, you seem fixated on what's the "ideal package." Ideal software at no matter what cost? I'd buy a powerful renderfarm for DR-GI (= distributed rendering / global illumination)... I'd also force wacom to make a Cintiq with a resolution of at least 2400x2000 but that's all hardware ;-p for modelling-software: I'd go for max5 but hire a maxscripter to transport all scripts I've made and create the tons of other 'do in one day what would take a week'-scripts that I have in mind. For other software, I'd stick to the applications we own... maybe an AcadLT upgrade if 'old'-dwg can't be read anymore... but only if I'm forced too... rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 what is the difference between AutoCAD LT and standard AutoCAD (besides the huge price difference). Xavier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Nelson Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 The biggest that i know of is 3d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 And also I think LISP support (there is no LISP with LT)? Xavier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Autodesk's product comparison between Autocad and LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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