Elliot Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Hello, I have had problems with spots and getting sharp images since day 1 with the Nikon D70. After researching for a while I found that the previous problems are the reults of dust spots or dust bunnies. If you want to see your dust spots, take a photo of a white paper at F16 (not the aircraft - lense aperture) or smaller. Then take the photo to Photoshop and apply the Image - Adjustment- Auto Levels. That will exposed your dust bunnies. If you normally shoot with large apertures you may have never experienced the spots. It happens against lighted backgrounds and smaller apertures. I am including a photo of a white paper with my dust fingerprints. They are barely visible. Then I did the color enhance sequence and they become very visible. The reason for all this mess, when I send my photos to the printer with a 600DPI capability the dust spots are very visible. I even see them on my own printer. Nikon basically says to send it to the factory. Not to do any cleaning. I have read quite a few articles an apparently it is very easy to clean them. You have to remove the lense, bring the mirror up and that will expose the sensor. The spost are microscopic and will not be visible. THe with a special tool just clean the sensor. I tried air from a bulb and the spots are still there. It has got to the level that I am going to do something about it. I do not want to send it to the factory. Apparently this is something that happens quite often. I am going to learn how to do it even if I have to trash the camera. I see the disclaimer from Nikon "DO NOT TOUCH THE SENSOR" and I am I am being cautious to touch the sensor with the cleaning tool. Does anybody has experience cleaning the sensor on the D70 or D100 cameras? Is it as easy as it sounds...? Thanks Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Hey Elliot, I've not cleaned my D70 yet, but soon. Check out this product: http://www.visibledust.com/ It has gotten some pretty rave rveiews and is a lot easier than using pec pads and cleaning solution. Not cheap, but apparently works very well. I intend to buy one, but maybe you can be the guinea pig and let us all know if it works. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted January 21, 2005 Author Share Posted January 21, 2005 Jeff, Hello, Thanks for infor.... I have seen that one. It one of two being recommended. The other one is http://www.photosol.com/swabproduct.htm Check this article http://www.bythom.com/cleaning.htm This guy is good. I have purchased his book on the D70 and it is very comprehensive. I am determined to do something about this... I am not all that happy with my D70. I think there is no problem with it, but I keep comparing it with the Hasselblad and the F5 and no comparisson on the sharpeness. I got for my daughter a Nikon N75 which is kind of the film version of a D70... and the photos are great crispy sharp. We scanned them and they are very good even better than what comes out of the D70. Hey... what are you doing up this late..... It is 2:39 am here in ATL.... you young kids have to get your 8 hours of sleep. The old guys like me don't have to sleep much.... He he he Thanks Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derijones Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I don't have marks quite that bad, but there are three "splodges" (for want of a better word!) on the sensor that can show up and need doctoring in PS. Have you tried the mirror lock up function - access to the sensor looks tricky to get it clean from edge to edge and I wonder what effect any smudges left would have on image quality - if you do try the cleaning kit, let us know how you got on. I think this is something that I would be willing to shell out to a camera shop / Nikon for if it was a £100 or so- at least if they mess it up you have some come back - mess it up and I guess you'd have to stump up for a new body. Interesting comment about the sharpness / image quality - comparing it to my old Nikon 601AF, with Kodak 200 film scanned on a Epson 4870, the D70 gives a better result - I had to apply a fair bit of sharpening to get clear scanned shots and there was a lot more cloning involved to get rid of dust marks. Heaps faster as well! Hope you get it cleaned Cheers Deri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted January 21, 2005 Author Share Posted January 21, 2005 Deri, Thanks for your response and input. I have had these spots since the first day I bought the camera. The local shop where I purchased the camera though it was the lense and they replaced the lense inmediately. I couldn't figure out what was the problem until I started researchint the internet. The camera is still under warrenty and it is just matter of sending it to Nikon. However, I will have to pack it and give it to the dealer. He will take care of sending it away. What worries me is that spots will happen again and I will have to send it away again...! On the internet people are complaning of having to send it to Nikon over and over. This is why I want to learn how to do this myself. I lifted the mirror and used a bulb to clean the mirror. I can not see any dust on the mirror surface. But when I do the process described before they show up inmediately. Under normal conditions the spots do not bother me. I am doing a brochure for our company and I am doing all the photos. On certain aiming angles, light condition and aperture the spots will show up. It has got to the point that I am tired of editing on on Photoshop and I am determined to do something. I am scared of damaging the sensor. Upon reading the articles on the internet I have found that what they call welded dust spots sould only be removed by Nikon. They say that it requires to much pressure and you may risk damaging the sensor array. I just ordered the cleaning tools and solutions. I will keep post my findings. I like the camera but I have found that the sharpeness is not what I wanted. I understand that a lot of people are complaining aboput this issue. It sounds like not everybody may have this issue. I think Nikon is aware of the problem. It sounds like there is some quality issues with the sensor. Other than the sharpness I really like the camera. I have an old digital camera from Kodack, the D260, it is about 7 years old.... The pictures I get from that old little camera are better than the ones out of the Nikon. I am looking at the specs on the Nikon D2X and it seems they have gone to a different technology on the sensor. Thanks Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted January 21, 2005 Author Share Posted January 21, 2005 Deri and Jeff, Take a look at this article: http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-6460-7296 Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I just ordered the cleaning tools and solutions. I will keep post my findings. Which one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Deri and Jeff, Take a look at this article: http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-6460-7296 Elliot Yeah that is one of the articles that I read amoung other testamonials on DPR. The company is actually only about 3 hours north of me. You know it's funny, many of the top industry websites are located in Calgary and Canada. Rob Galbraith is in Calgary, CGA is in Calgary, One of the top PDA sites I visit is in Calgary and that sensor company is close too. Must be the cold weather in the winter. LOL. Nothing else to do so we make websites. hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted January 21, 2005 Author Share Posted January 21, 2005 Another link, this time from Nikon itself: http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ja_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fshop.nikon-image.com%2fproducts.cfm%3fprodcd%3dPSP00052_5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted January 21, 2005 Author Share Posted January 21, 2005 Jeff, I noticed that all these people are in Calgary.... I am sure it has something to do with the cold weather. I ordered the brushes too. I am now going to downtown to get the Sensor Swabs. The guy at the local camera shop told me that all the professional photographers use a combination of methods to clean their sensors. He said very few people send their cameras to the factory. He also confirmed my suspicion that this is something that happens very frequently. He agrees with the guy at Nikon. A lot of these dust bunnies on the right places will cause the autofocus device to be confused and perhaps that's why I get the fuzzy photos. Time will tell... They guys at the office wanted me to go there this week.... Have you been looking at the temperatures in Laval..... -35 C. No way.... My brother in Boca Raton has a neighbor from where your are that has a second home in Florida for the Snow Bird season. All the Floridian are using their jackets because it is 50F. My brother called me this morning and tells me, I know who is Canadian around here. They are the only ones on the boat with their swiming trunks and no shirt....! I am on strike today.... Just cleaning lenses and camera today.....! He he I did my 40 hours by Wednesday morning.... Tought week.... I am developing a horrible computer allergy.... He he he Thanks Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianKitts Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I've found that I need to clean all of my slr's for dust bunnies all the time. I've got a Nikon and three Fuji's.... they all act up the same, so anytime I change lenses is when i get the dust. I just give it a soft shot with compressed air before throwing on a different lense. Keeps it nice and clean, I was a little leary of going in with brushes, I've met a few who have damaged the chip inside while cleaning. But the air works great for a quick on the job cleanup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I've found that I need to clean all of my slr's for dust bunnies all the time. I've got a Nikon and three Fuji's.... they all act up the same, so anytime I change lenses is when i get the dust. I just give it a soft shot with compressed air before throwing on a different lense. Keeps it nice and clean, I was a little leary of going in with brushes, I've met a few who have damaged the chip inside while cleaning. But the air works great for a quick on the job cleanup. You need to be REALLY careful with compressed air as many can have a propellant with lubricant. While very minimal, if any gets onto the CCD, you could be in a world of hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted January 22, 2005 Author Share Posted January 22, 2005 Hello, I went to down town Atlanta where they have several pro shops for photography. I confirmed my suspicion. It is a common thing among pro-photographers to be cleaning their sensors on a regular basis. There is even a guy in Atlanta that the only thing he does is cleaning camera sensors. He charges a flat fee of $50.00. Most of the shops carry the Sensor Swab. Most of the shops were very negative about the use of the brush. One of the guys, a camera service tech, told me the only factory approved method by most camera manufacturers is the Sensor Swab with the Eclipse cleaning solution. I bought the tools and will clean the CCD tomorrow. Brian: Regarding the use of air. I am in the medical gas for life support and pharmaceutical and electronic clean rooms. Gases are considered drugs by the FDA. The reason for that, just like medication, gases enter the bloodstream via the alveolar level in the lungs. For this reason the FDA and NFPA have very carefully drafted the definitions for medical air. The nomograph definitions are very clear and specific in terms of the parts per million of contaminants. Compressors are like computers, garbage in - garbage - out. Our own atmospheric air has contaminants and acids. If you pressurize the atmopheric air you are increasing the amounts of contaminent. Even life support medical air has particles like the ones that will cause the dots on the filter array sensor. This Med-Air is produced by an Oil-less (No-Oil) compressor with a series of coalescent filters and dessicant dryers to remove particles and lower the air dew point levels. The air they sell in a can is produced by an oil lubricated air compressor with basically no filtering. When compressed it also produces condensation that could mix with the oil produced by the oil lubricated compressor. That air you are using could compound the problem to higher level. I would also be carefull with some of these air cans, their propellant is based on Freon (dichloro fluoromethane) that not only will damage the ozone layer but also your sensitive CCD sensor. Thanks ELliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted January 22, 2005 Author Share Posted January 22, 2005 Jeff, Remember our talk about grey cards for calibration....? When I went to town today I asked the tech about grey cards and he recommended something else called Expo Disk. http://www.expodisc.com I still don't understand all this procedures. They told me that this is not calibrating the sensor to the WB, it is just making it more accurate. Do you understand what they mean by this....? Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted January 22, 2005 Author Share Posted January 22, 2005 Jeff, I am enclosing a photo of the Sensor Swab. Why is it the background is in focus but the subject is fuzzy. What is it that I am doing wrong. The camera was on fully automatic. Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted January 22, 2005 Author Share Posted January 22, 2005 Hello, Here is an interesting link on cleaning the sensor: http://users.telenet.be/belgiumdigital/sensor_reinigen_deel-2.wmv Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted January 22, 2005 Author Share Posted January 22, 2005 Hello, I think these links are a a must for everybody following this thread. Jeff, pay particular attention about the sensor brush. On all the sites I have read today and after talking with the Nikon Tech here in Atlanta they are not to sure about the brush. Here are the links: http://www.cleaningdigitalcameras.com/index.html http://www.pbase.com/copperhill/ccd_cleaning Good Luck ELliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted January 22, 2005 Author Share Posted January 22, 2005 Hello, Another trip to downtown....! This time I got everything I needed. The AC power supply to make sure the mirror stays up... I don't know if this is really needed but too many people posting that their mirror went down on the middle of the clean up operation. The tech also thought it would be a good idea. Now I have the Sensor Brush and the Sensor Swab. That little brush is very very expensive. I met with the Nikon Tech once again, I also had the chance to meet with the Nikon Sales Rep that just happened to be back from a sales training trip during which he saw the Nikon D2X. Very interesting comments... Both of these guys advice me not to use the brush if possible. They don't even sell it. Then I went to the other super-pro shop where they have high end cameras which they lease to profesional photographers. They are next to the CNN headquarters. They don't sell the brush either but they had a couple of new ones for their own future use. They sold me one. The tech there also advice to use the Sensor Swab first. All these people are all very scared of touching the CCD sensor. This second tech actually showed to me a scratched sensor. I could barely see the scratch on the low pass filter. He showed me what it will do on the photos. He cleaned my sensor for me and let me see how he did it. It is very simple... I don't think it took him more than 2 minutes. The main problem I have, is that at my age, vision is not that good. I am going to clean it myself today.... just to practice... You need enough light to see what you are doing and it would be nice if you have some kind of device to hold the camera steady. The tech had tripod head that he bolted to his workbench. The camera works better now. Out of about 24 to 28 spots there is still about 8 or 10. He told me that the cameras come like that from Nikon. He also told me that whenever changing lenses, make sure to turn off the camera. If the camera is on, the CCD creates an electrostatic charge that is like a magnet for dust. Later on I will try to clean it once again. He mentioned that on cameras that have never beeen cleaned sometimes it takes more than 2 or 3 applications. The first tech showed me how to use the ExpoDisc.... I kept it, there is a difference... it is just OK.... I think all the reports on how to use a Pringle cover instead of a $139.00 filter and still achieving the same results.... they are all true.... He he he There is a definite difference on the WB after calibrating it with the ExpoDisc. One thing the Nikon sales rep showed me was very interesting. I have always adjusted the diopeter on the view finder with the lense attached on the camera. I have complained of fuzzy pictures since day one.... He explained that the way to calibrate the diopeter is to remove the lens, aim at subject and focus the diopter, then place back the lens. I am glad to report the pictures after the sensor cleaned, diopeter and WB calibrated are at least 40 percent more sharp and more clear. They really look better...! One thing this sales rep was very strong, he told me not to buy the D2X thinking I am going to get a more sharp image. He very strongly explained to me that sharpness improvement would be the wrong reason to get the D2X. He said in terms of quality the D70 and the very expensive D2X would produce basically the same pictures, just at a different resolution. Very interesting.... However, there is a trillion other features for a professional photographer being offered on the D2X. They showed me a 22 mega pixel camera back attached to a Hasselblad medium format. Compared my D70 photos against the 22 mega pixel. Quality wise there was almost no difference... All these is very confusing to me and at the sametime very interesting. They agree with my daughter who is sure the only thing wrong on the D70 is the component behind the viewfinder....! Good Luck Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted January 22, 2005 Author Share Posted January 22, 2005 Hello, This is not that simple. I have used 6 of the Sensor Swabs. I still have one spot. It is a stuborn spot that wants to stay. Question ..... If see the spot on the right side of the photo. In real mode is the spot on the left side of the CCD sensor? I also used the brush. The brush didn't do a thing. I guess this is what Rog Galbraith refers as the welded spots. They are not visible. I am using two Eyeglasses and a lamp with a magnifying glass. I have a lot of light in the room. The ten Swabs were 48.00. I am not to sure I like the Sensor Swab. I guess the Nikon method is the same one. The Sensor Swab is to flimsy and bend upon pressure. Because of that reason the pressure is not really landing on the CCD. Additionally the Swab is a little bit bigger than the opening of the sensor. In a way you almost have to jam the applicator in there...? It is tricky....? I don't know if I will be able to remove the remainig spot...! Anybody outhere with experience? Thanks Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Jeff, Remember our talk about grey cards for calibration....? When I went to town today I asked the tech about grey cards and he recommended something else called Expo Disk. www.expodisc.com I still don't understand all this procedures. They told me that this is not calibrating the sensor to the WB, it is just making it more accurate. Do you understand what they mean by this....? Elliot Yeah I looked at that Expodisc, but from what I've read it only works in certain situations. Lots of money for what it is too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 They showed me a 22 mega pixel camera back attached to a Hasselblad medium format. Compared my D70 photos against the 22 mega pixel. Quality wise there was almost no difference... Yeah I figured what would be the case. 80-90% of the picture is the person behind it. I've seen AMAZING pics with realtively cheap Digicams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 I don't know if I will be able to remove the remainig spot...! Anybody outhere with experience? Thanks Elliot Hey Elliot, probably not the case but is there any chance that one is on the lens? Maybe that one showed up in the beginning too? If it shows up when you are looking though the viewfinder, it's either on the lens or the mirror. I'm not sure what you meant when you said you can see it in real-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted January 23, 2005 Author Share Posted January 23, 2005 Jeff, I took the last few hours off. I was about to kick the Swab Sensors. Every time I go to downtown it is 1:30 hours round trip. I have gone three times in the last two days to get all these things. At the end the main spot that shows very badly is precisely the one I can't get off.... About the ExpoDisc. They sure can make it work in store. I cant duplicate effect at home.... Perhaps it is me.... I am putting loading two photos. One without the calibration and one after the calibration. I know the photos are out of focus. I had the focus on manual and forgot to adjust the camera. The light is more balanced. look at the ceiling. Do you think this is worth $139.00. One interesting thing is that you have to carry the disc hanging from your neck and everytime the light source change you have to recalibrate.... I saw some other examples at the store and I was convinced for a second time in 24 hours. However, when I get back at home, I can't make it work like they do at the store....! Here we ago again.... You know what my daughter thinks.... Is that old thing behind the lens.....! About all the questions you ask I am going to test tonight and will tell you tomorrow. One thing for sure. I don't htink it's any of the 4 lenses. The spots show on the same area regardless which lens I use. We are expecting some bad weather tonight. The temperature has drop about 22 degrees in the last 3 hours and it keeps going down. One last thing. Not everything I have done has been a waste of time. The photos are looking better now.... Cleaning the sensor did improve a very nice amount. Thanks Elliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted January 23, 2005 Author Share Posted January 23, 2005 Hello, I give up. I havew used 10 Sensor Swabs and twice the Sensor Brush. It seems to me that the only thing I am doing is moving the dust bunnies from one side to the other. I am attaching the last fingerprint taken of the subject. ELliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted January 23, 2005 Author Share Posted January 23, 2005 Hello, I give up. I have used 10 Sensor Swabs and twice the Sensor Brush. It seems to me that the only thing I am doing is moving the dust bunnies from one side to the other. ELliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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