Thin walled objects

[leoA4D]

What is the most (rendering time) efficient way to create a thin walled cone for a glass light fixture shade? I used two Linear Splines in two Sweep Nurbs for glass and metal parts. The rendering time for just one of these fixtues is quite slow. If I have a number of these, it might slow the rendering.

 

I looked at working with a cone primitive and Linear Spline in a HN. Neither worked.

 

TIA.

 

leoA4D

[Frosty]

Please post a pic of what you are trying to build. Remember that nurbs objects, incluing sweeps have subdivisions, the more subdivisions, the slower the rendering. Its always a struggle to maintain quality while simultaineously keeping a reasonable render time.

[leoA4D]

Ok, Frosty, here it is:

[tomankubik]

well your can do one detailed model...witch will be close to camera view, and then one "not so detailed" and make instances of this one...because Cinema render instance faster then normal copy of an object

[STRAT]

yup, just make them lower poly and less detailed. also add appropriate render TAGs to them so they're optomised in their rendering too.

[Ernest Burden III]

yup, just make them lower poly and less detailed. also add appropriate render TAGs to them so they're optomised in their rendering too.

 

If you use a 'reduce polygon count' modifier in instances of the original one, and leave it that way (meaning NOT 'make editable') would you get the same benefit of the lower poly instances?

 

I was thinking of doing that in my current restaurant rendering. I suppose you could even animate the parameter on the poly reduction for when a camera gets closer to the object. I know, that's what LOD is all about. This is just another way to think about doing it.

[Frosty]

If you use a 'reduce polygon count' modifier in instances of the original one, and leave it that way (meaning NOT 'make editable') would you get the same benefit of the lower poly instances?

 

Yup. Additionally any lights that you place/edit within the original will also be updated throughout every instance

 

A more appropriate method may be to use a single orignal light fixture with a series of instances for the close ups. Another instance could be used for the distant lights. The first distant instance would use a "poly reduce" modifier as Ernest has suggested - only one of these. This object could be further instanced throughout the background. The net result is one master light fixture to control textures and the lights and one poly reduce modifier to control the quality of the low poly versions.

[Ernest Burden III]

A more appropriate method may be to use a single orignal light fixture with a series of instances for the close ups. Another instance could be used for the distant lights..

 

I've really got to get comfortable with using instances in Cinema NOW, as in today. I want to use them for lights and furniture in the restaurant WIP, and its due soon and I still have a lot of work to do.

 

In a large, complex scene I was thinking you could use a few instance versions to be able to control the poly reduction by 'zone'.

 

Object Manager organization is key, I am finding.

[Frosty]

Bang on the money Ernest. The Object Manager is your best friend. Its a bit tricky at first to get used to the hierarchy. Once you do, in can speed workflow tremendously. Beyond instances you could use arrays and the itterators in Jenna if you have it. These are all methodologies for creating duplicates of objects.

[leoA4D]

Okay. Thanks all; mind expanding as usual. You've got me digesting and running to the manuals (R8 soft & R9 pdf).

 

Tomankubik suggested making one detailed model and one less detailed and make instances of the less detailed model. Definitely an idea that I will use at times. I like to use my models for design and use cameras to look from different angles/distances. Of course, unnecessary parts are off to speed rendering times. Instances from the detailed one works for me in most situations.

 

Strat, could you give me more info or tut regarding "appropriate render TAGs"?

 

Thanks Ernest & Frosty for the excellent poly reduction discussion. Frosty, I just want to make sure I understand this: "The first distant instance would use a 'poly reduce' modifier..." and "...further instanced throughout the background." An instance can be modified apart from the original and then instance that modified instance? If so, cool!

 

Last - is there any info or tuts available on how I can become best buddies with my Object Manager?

 

Thanks all.

[Ernest Burden III]

Last - is there any info or tuts available on how I can become best buddies with my Object Manager?

 

I don't know of any. But, do you model in CAD, or work in CAD ever? If so, think about how you use layers and colors to organize your work, and how you may sometimes want to turn off layers of better yet GROUPS of layers to focus on an area you are working with. Well, that's what the OM does. By 'nesting' objects you get quick control of them all.

 

For example, I have a file that has groupings for site objects (lamp poles, a sculpture, benches, etc) so that there is a null caled 'lightpoles' and under that are each copy of my light poles, (I could have used instances but used copies) and under each of those is the main pole and one, two or zero copies of a banner (varies by location in the site).

 

Another null holds all site buildings. Another holds trees, another would hold cars (if I had added them yet) another people. I could then put the nulls for those groups under another null called 'entourage stuff'.

 

Like that.

[Frosty]

Frosty, I just want to make sure I understand this: "The first distant instance would use a 'poly reduce' modifier..." and "...further instanced throughout the background." An instance can be modified apart from the original and then instance that modified instance? If so, cool!

 

I think so. Truthfully, I havent tried it. It may be neccessary to use a lower poly version of the model and instance it as you stated.

[leoA4D]

You're spot on thinking I'm not too advanced with C4D, however, I've gotten the nesting thing with Nulls and using the visibility dots down. With the poly reduction (new to me) and the OM, I thought there might be a more involved strategy I needed to get to know. Did I, again, read more into the discussion than is there?

 

Thanks for the help!

[Ernest Burden III]

Did I, again, read more into the discussion than is there?

 

If so, you are a wise man. It shows you are actually THINKING about what we are discussing. Good for you!

 

TTo make a lower-poly version of your object you can always use the reduce-poly mod. thingy and then 'make editable' to create a permanently reduced object. But what's great about C4D is how much can be left 'editable'.

[leoA4D]

Ernest, I'm pedaling hard trying to keep up with these discussions – and falling behind. Yeah, I'm enjoying.

 

Today, or tomorrow, I will try the poly reduction tool(?) on the pendant light fixture I posted earlier.

 

First, I've uploaded the OM>Objects>Object Information for 1. the entire fixture and 2. the glass shade. Also, there's an image of the spline used for the glass shade and the Object Properties for that spline. The polygon count for the fixture and shade spline is zero.The manual notes that the figures in parentheses represents counts if the spline is made editable. So, why is the glass shade slow to render if the Points and Polygon counts are zero?

[leoA4D]

I tried the Polygon Reduction Deformer with the light fixture posted here earlier. I am posting preliminary results images here. Conclusion? The settings require considerable futzing with, which I have not been successful doing, yet.

 

Scrn No PRed is the original object. Notice the reflections & the brass housing. Scrn PRed default: Reduction Strength = 90%; Mesh Quality Factor = 1000. Lots of distortion with the brass housing. Scrn PRed 50%-100: Reduction Strength = 50%; Mesh Quality Factor = 100.

[STRAT]

is that reflection in the brass a raytraced reflection or an environment channel mapped reflection?

[leoA4D]

No raytracer, a la POV Raytracer, was used and no, the environment channel was not used. This is a simple mockup using the reflection channel.

[Frosty]

Since most of the objects comprising the light fixture are primitives and sweeps, the ones i could see anyway. Why not simply reduce the segments on each object? Rather than 24 or 32 rotation segments set it to 12, set the Height segments to one, ect. The same can be done to the revolves.

[leoA4D]

Your suggestions prompted me look harder at all the Object Properties for both the spline and lathe objects. In this case, reducing segment numbers to 12 didn't help reduce the render time. Changing the spline intermediate point setting from uniform to none dropped the number of points from 90 to 0 and cut the rendering time by more than half. That was the problem.

 

Any more thougthts about the poly reduction tool? The distortion in the second image I posted was with the p reduction left in default setting. Also, when is the optomizer used instead of poly reduction and vice-versa? Can both be used simultaneously? The manual doesn't say much about implementation.

 

Thanks for the help.