plastic Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 ok, i'm getting a dual athlon render box. 2 x athlon mp 2.4+ 2 x 512 mb kingston registred ecc ram. gainward geforce 4 4600. seagate barracuda V 120gb. for the ram...there is no mushkin where i live. there is kingston value ram. all other brands (corsair, samsung, infineon are very expensive) same with 1GB sticks. because i want the whole thing to be pretty quiet i'd like to hear some recommendations for -) silent coolers for the 2400+ cpu's. -) enermax power supply. how many watts do i need? -) case fans? any comments? recommendations? horror stories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 2 x athlon mp 2.4+ 2 x 512 mb kingston registred ecc ram. gainward geforce 4 4600. seagate barracuda V 120gb. What motherboard? One fellow on the cgtalk forum had issues with an MSI. If its an asus (which has been discontinued) it has to be rev 1.04 or later to support 2400+ MP's. Check www.2cpu.com for more info on dual cpu motherboards. there is kingston value ram. all other brands (corsair, samsung, infineon are very expensive) same with 1GB sticks. I usually recommend Mushkin/Corsair XMS, Crucial/Micron. Kingston is usually Comp USA fodder here in the states (some of the cheapest ram u can get), and is usually to be avoided in workstations. There's a reason why the other ram is more expensive. If you do end up being forced to buy the kingston. Make sure.... 1. You can return the ram if it shows errors or instability. 2. That the store won't just give you back the same ram you returned. 3. That you run memtest86 (http://www.memtest86.com) v3.0, with all tests on, and ecc disabled, when you get the ram. -) silent coolers for the 2400+ cpu's. This depends on the board. 2400+ MP's are pretty cool by default (compared to a 2200+). Probably a thermalright SLK800 would fit on most boards. Gotta find out the mboard to confirm though. -) enermax power supply. how many watts do i need? 400 Minimum. -) case fans? Enermax or YS-tech adjustable rpm. Their cheap, and you can vary their rpm for noise and performance adjustments. Work well on the cpu's too. (The thermalright heatsinks requir 80mm fans and don't come with any) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plastic Posted January 7, 2003 Author Share Posted January 7, 2003 thanks! i forgot mentioning the mainboard. msi k7d master-l was on top of my list... other (not so) available boards are gigabyte and tyan. i will look at the 2cpu site, thanks for the tip. for the ram, the price difference is massive. (almoust double in case of 512 sticks.) a 1gb stick costs more than a whole athlon xp workstation i think i will go for kingston and do the memtest. exchanging is no problem. the thing is, i can only get exotic ram brands from exotic dealers. i made bad experiences with exotic dealers. my trusted dealer only has mainstream gear, but exchanging/returning is no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Have you seen these new Heat-Pipe fans from cooler master? They look like the coolest thing EVER! http://www.coolermaster.com.hk/en/products/cooler/ihc-l71.html get the semi-power of liquid cooling without water pump... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Christopher, Thats a P4 heatsink. The HHC-001's, (The socket A versions) are about midrange in their effectiveness. Their quite effective, but only with an extremely loud fan (delta). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 oooooh! thanks for pointing that out... STILL a cool concept... Hah... "cool" concept!!! get it? But speaking of quiet things... I have backburned my PC upgrade for a while... BUT I had been looking at quiet cases... The look is OK... a little wierd, but it looks really funcional... what is your take on this case: http://www.thermaltake.com/products/cases/6000b.htm super kiet fans, all rail system, etc... I want a coolermaster alum case, but they are pricey and may not be as quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 The thermaltake case design is based off the original antec design. (Which was stolen from someone else). Chieftech copies this base design, and produces it for almost 30% less then anyone else on the market...in steel and alumnium cases. They also come in a wide variety of colors. Here's some direct links.. A pic of one.... http://images2.newegg.com/productimage/11-125-955-12.JPG Price listing...(They go for around 88 USD without PSU) http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?DEPA=1&submit=manufactory&catalog=7&manufactory=1502&description=&page=2 (Scroll down on the page) Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 "I use the AX7, which by the way I can't find on newegg anymore. Its good and quite (depends on fan)." The AX7 has been discontinued by Thermalright. The last batch was produced last week, and sold to limited retailers. Their current flagship models are the SK7+, SLK600, SLK700, and SLK800. (The 600 uses a 60mm fan, the 700 a 70mm TMD, and the 800 a 80mm fan) The newegg board. Newegg gets their info from the producer of the hardware. If the company changes their spec sheet, it takes newegg sometime to update it, unless the company specifically sends the update to newegg. Usually when enough people email newegg, they fix the problem. I usually go for just onboard lan. Everything else I like to add myself. Well I guess onboard firewire and usb2.0 is nice . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcahunak Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Hi all, MEM: Marc have you checked crucial.com? I think they ship international. they have good memory and good online prices. HSF: I use the AX7, which by the way I can't find on newegg anymore. Its good and quite (depends on fan). MOBO: There is a relatively new manufacturer in the MPX market, but it seemed to be a nice board - CHAINTECH 7KDD. They are sold out on newegg at the moment but looking at their specs it looks nice (onboard sound, raid and... USB and even USB 2 through an NEC onboard chip). Here is a pic: The wierd thing is that if you click on the product link and follow to chaintech site the mobos' pic and specs are different then the ones shown on newegg. Personally,I'd like to belive to the newegg version which looks newer then the one on chaintechs' site. Also knowing newegg, they always have good and reliable product description. Greg, can you shed some light on that matter? Marc, I would try to find a mobo with as much onboard features. For one, they are very reliable nowadays, but the main problem is luck of standard (32 bit / 33mhz) PCI expansion slots on these boards. With my Tyan for example if I want to add the following: USB (original doesn't work, and ASUS, MSI are the same thing), Firewire (you can combine both to one card), raid on standard IDE adapter, sound card, NIC... and I'm already 2 slots short... not to mention TV card, SCSI... just my tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcahunak Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Aha. Thats why I see so many people "jumping" on any for sale AX7 that comes around in forums. So I take it you haven't heard anything from users who worked with this chaintech board. The voting in newegg is pretty good for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 No I haven't heard any users with experience with that chaintech board. I'd check 2cpu.com's forum's for info on it. As for myself, I'm waiting to see which board offers support for the 2600+ MP first. (333 FSB). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plastic Posted January 9, 2003 Author Share Posted January 9, 2003 hey greg, quick question: i asked my dealer about the MP 2400+ and he said the ones he gets with the next shipment are 333 ones. is this possible? does 333 mean that i also need 333 ddr ram, in addition to a board that supports it? another strange thing...there seem to be coolers included with MP processors here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 There won't be 333 2400+ MP's. The 2600+ MP is the first 333 FSB MP. And yes they'll require PC2700 Registered DDR (Which is extremely rare). Further more, there is not a SINGLE board on the market currently with 333 FSB support. So even if the chips come out, their useless until revised motherboards arrive. Retail MP's should always come with coolers. Doesn't mean its the best cooler for the job though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermi Bertran Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 One thing about "in a box" MPs (this is how they call reatil here and come with coolers) Just throw them (coolers) to trash. in a big cleared (no cable messes etc.) box 2 MP 2000+ processors with AMD coolers 3 xtra fans in at the bottom. 3 xtra fans out on top (box is high) Processors idle temp 55-57 and 59-60 ºC respectively Processors full load temp 67-69 and 72-74 ºC Have run the system with Box opened and an industrial fan directed over the processors, which kept them some 10 ºC cooler in all circumstances, had the coolers changed for something from coolermaster don't know exactly what it is now , but with the box closed again, temperature has gone down towards something 12 ºC average with full load, so now I keep hotest processor around 60 - 62 ºC when loaded (hope this is save enough) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermi Bertran Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Want to add the fact that new coolers are noticiably more quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Cranium Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 The thermaltake case design is based off the original antec design. (Which was stolen from someone else). Chieftech copies this base design, and produces it for almost 30% less then anyone else on the market...in steel and alumnium cases. They also come in a wide variety of colors. Here's some direct links.. A pic of one.... http://images2.newegg.com/productimage/11-125-955-12.JPG Except for the side window, that thing looks almost exactly like the 'Dragon' case from Alienware-- is it the same, or am I just hallucinating? That'd be nifty to have, what with the thumb screws and side door... I could handle that for 80 bucks... too bad I wouldn't be able to get it in Chameleon. Actually, if you look at this Chieftec pic... http://images2.newegg.com/productimage/11-125-222-01.JPG There's the little grate for the video cooling, where Alienware sticks one with a logo on it. I'd post a pic addy, but the only view of the Dragon I can find is embedded in a Flash thing. Bleh. [ April 22, 2003, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: Gnarly Cranium ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Gnarly, Aye its identical to Alienwares "Original" design. However if you got to... www.alienware.com You'll see they have their own design now... Which probably means we'll see it on the market eventually . (It uses the same interior as the Chieftech Dragon/Antec Soho cases) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Cranium Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Yeah, saw that a while ago when the 'Predator' rumors were going around. Funky lookin beastie, that's certain. Seems silly for it to be so much more expensive than the Dragon case if they're the same where it counts. And it doesn't seem to come in Chameleon either! Pah! Heheh. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Hello @Plastic You can go with Kingston Value RAM too. I don't think you will get any problems with the memory from kingston (they are originally packaged too). We use Modules from crucial or kingston. Not one was defect till yet. If you think your modules are damaged, they will be replaced very fast. btw. I heared, it's hard to get reg. ecc modules in Vienna And if you can, don't go to "CW Soft"... They will eat your shorts for nothing. > Grüsse aus Burgenland Richie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Value ram always bites you in the ass when you least expect it. Usually when you have a client meeting, and a limited amount of time to finish before the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 It is great for making Net rendering boxes from old cool running PIII boxes i think though. The big cherry with buying it from Kingston is the guarantee - but still, it can be a real waster of time having to pick up replacement modules etc. I swore i would stop buying cheap stuff after my most recent experiences with value products - the current wave of value scanners, and CD-RW drives out there - just a waste having to trouble-shoot a faulty component. I would with the Value, Kingston modules installing 2x 512MB value modules was a recipe for a disaster. Better to put in just one quality 256MB dimm and one value CL3 512MB dimm. Perfectly stable that way. Or just one 512MB value ram dimm. I have tested two Kingston memory modules over 3 months now like this, and the stability has been excellent with one module - crap with two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Hello > lifetime warranty for value ram from kingston... What do you think why they are doing this? You both are talking like somebody paid you for making bad propaganda for kingston. All manufacturer are just cooking with water. If you have a defective module the reseller must replace it imediately no matter if it's a no name module or something else. Apple is using crucial modules for example. Go to the Apple Shop and you will see they are talking from some special memory modules. They will cost more than 70% of the crucial modules and you will get no-name modules which are actually 50% cheaper than the crucial modules. And now, you know, why MAC's are crashing so often. What's this? But maybe the waranty stuff in Continental EU is different (better) than in the World. I never seen a defective memory module from crucial and kingston in my life, except they was damaged by UPS (or was it DHL?). People: Why are you looking so negative? Richie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Better to put in just one quality 256MB dimm and one value CL3 512MB dimm. Perfectly stable that way. Or just one 512MB value ram dimm. Gare, I disagree with this statement. The stability of the machine is not determined by the quality of any single dimm in the array, but by the LOWEST quality dimm in the grouping. Aka if you have 3 sticks of namebrand high quality DDR, and you throw a POS generic in dimm 4, its stability will determine the stability of the entire machine. Only takes a single rotten apple to crumble an empire. What do you think why they are doing this? You both are talking like somebody paid you for making bad propaganda for kingston. Value ram is just that. Its cheap, its meant for low stress systems, in situations which won't push or stress the limits past specifications. Cg is NOT normal operation. There are subtle differences in the construction of quality level ram, and budget/value ram that tend to manifest themselves under extremely stressful circumstances. (Like hour 72 in a render). These differences are not apparent to the generic user, nor are they apparent to the average individual. Cg artists are akin to race drivers in the treatment of their machines. They stress and push the envelope almost constantly. Simple actions like dealing with a 110 mb Max file in the viewports, or running a GI render at print res (over 4800xXXXX), stress the machines more then entire YEARS of work under normal consumer situations. Buying namebrand high quality dimms like Crucial XMS, Mushkin, or Crucial/Micron (I don't consider them value) is the same difference as putting synethic oil in your car, as opposed to normal oil. Its insurance. Its there to tell you, that when the shit hits the fan, that computer is going to be completely and utterly bulletproof. In the case of a car, its there to make sure everything is always lubricated, even when things go wrong. Will value ram work? Sure, if it passes all the memtest86 config tests with ECC disabled, ya it should work fine. [Note: You should ALWAYS run www.memtest86.com with ALL NEW RAM. Regardless if its namebrand or not. ALWAYS run memtest86 before fully setting up a new machine. Solves countless problems before they begin. Would I put value/budget ram in one of my workstations, or a computer that needed to be bulletproof (like a dna analysis machine)? HELL NO. If you have a defective module the reseller must replace it imediately no matter if it's a no name module or something else. Not if you exceed the resellers warranty (which is usually 15-30 days). And if its no name or generic, good luck getting a replacement. Also good luck explaining to kingston why your ram is bad when their testers show no problems. (memtest will show errors when normal memory testers pass the dimm). I doubt you'd actually had experience dealing with kingston, since you've never had a bad or defect dimm. Not one was defect till yet. If you think your modules are damaged, they will be replaced very fast. If you haven't had any defects, how do you know they replace them fast? You'll note that kingston has a high quality dimm available for those who want performance and stabilty, over cost effectivness. Why? Because they know there is a difference between the two dimm types. Kingston knows the higher quality dimms are more stable, created of higher quality memories/pcb's, and faster then their budget line. Thats why they have them. http://www.kingston.com/hyperx/default.asp never seen a defective memory module from crucial and kingston in my life, except they was damaged by UPS (or was it DHL?). I've seen defective from both. Also Corsair XMS, and Mushkin. Its bound to eventually happen when your dealing with thousands of machines. The % return on the higher (more expensive) dimms is significantly lower then with the budget/value ones. Who would I choose over everyone else? Buy directly from mushkin. They'll overnight you replacement ram, with shipping to send the bad ram back. Nobody else does that. Don't believe me? www.resellerratings.com type in mushkin. People: Why are you looking so negative? Its not negative. Its realistic. Everyone is commenting from experience in the field, and working with computers/manufacturers. Though at first many might seem to have strong foundations...with experience, you learn many were built on swampland. [ April 24, 2003, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: Greg Hess ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Hello Hmm... Interesting view. Well, the warranty situation is obviuosly really different here in the EU. If you want to sell a product, that's not 100% OK (the cheap and no-name memory modules), you must mark it with: NOT 100% FUNCTIONAL sticker(with big letters). The sticker must be placed to be good visible for the customer. Printing with small letters or fantasy agreements will be not accepted from the law. If you don't do this, you must replace it (or give the money back), no matter who is the manufacturer of the product. The worst case for reseller/dealer is if the manufacturer give you only 6 Months or 1 Year of Warranty. If such low quality product goes bad, the reseller must replace it. For computer products you have a special extended warranty period, which can be longer than 3,4 or 5 Years (depends on, what the problem is). Since it's known what garbage on the market you can find, the EU Law are very hard with Computer Hardware/Software Manufacturers. Such fantasy agreements like descreet makes are not allowed (and therefore not valid) in Europe: It's not allowed to resell the Software (3DSMAx If I'm right). In the main time nobody talking about this, since it's well known, that you can resell the product if you don't like it. You asked me, how I know how fast and if the products (Memory Modules) will be replaced. Well, I also saw many deefective memory modules allready. AFAIK more than 75% of the No-Name Memory modules are defective (In your and my sence, but not for the week-end computer user). Allways I get new memory modules I run Memory Tester. I allways have replacement modules in-house. I never needed replacemens modules from kingston, but I'm purchasing the modules from a good distributor (he will replace them on the same day if I need some). The story with Crucial (UK) needed ~2 days to get the replacement modules. The replacement modules are also delivered with DHL. One thing I'm sad about is that the resseler are laying the customer about the waranty regulations here, therefore only few customers going to law to regulate the problems. But if you say to your reseller, that you will go to a lawyer, he will shurelly replace anything you want, because he knows, he will loose against you. Shurelly to get replacement Modules without problems is to run memtester on the same day, you purchased the Modules. Well, we are not in the US, and you will never get any money for your loosed time, but you can be shure, that the defective parts will be replaced. The most manufacturers (Hard and Software) know the new (warranty)regulations in Europe and they offer fast solutions to fix your problem(s). There are also regulations about the price of a product. The times you can sell everything are gone. Richie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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