Wanna_be_architect Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Can someone explain to me the difference? What are the advantages of becoming a architect rather than a designer? Thanks guys, I am trying to figure out if I want to become a architect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb602 Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Can someone explain to me the difference? What are the advantages of becoming a architect rather than a designer? Thanks guys, I am trying to figure out if I want to become a architect. An architect is a licensed professional. In order to become an architect in the US, you need a professional degree, a (roughly) 3 year internship, and then pass the licensing exams. You are then qualified to design buildings. To become a designer you need to say "I am a designer." An interior designer can design, well, interiors so long as they don't affect a building's structure. What attracts you to design/architecture? One of the best books for someone beginning in architecture is Herman Hertzberger's appropriately named Lessons for Students in Architecture. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanna_be_architect Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 Can a home designer, design any commercial work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Gaushell Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 No. That is the difference. A designer has not been properly trained in dealing with health, safety and welfare issues and is not allowed by law to design a building - legally. Aesthetic design is only one aspect of architectural work. Making sure the building also meets all applicable code requirements, in addition to coordinating structural, mechanical, plubming, electrical and civil engineering to name a few. I actually was the project architect where we had over 13 consultant groups to coordinate. Basically architecture designs and coordinates all efforts related to a holistic design, whereas a "designer" might only focus on the "look". And personally, I really enjoyed (when I practiced architecture full time prior to my full time 3d days) working on design, coordinating, selecting finishes, lighting and overseeing construction for the client. Architecture is a blast, but a good architect is a very well rounded individual that can tackle a wide range of issues in solving the problems at hand. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanna_be_architect Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 But I have heard of a "designer" getting a licensed architect to look over his plans and stamp for for him, is this legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckytohaveher Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Correction: Being an architect just means you can starve to death too, and then get sued for it to boot. You know, you were neglegent in your starvation and you didn't coordinate your engineering team's starvation too. You should have known. Therefore, pay your lawyer $40K for loosing, our lawyer $60K for winning, and pay us $500,000,000 because you are an architect and should have known, forseen, or should have reasonably disclosed you were going to starve to death. IF YOU DON'T HAVE A BURNING SINCE FIVE YEARS OLD YEARNING TO BE AN ARCHITECT DON'T DO IT! I REPEAT DO NOT BECOME AN ARCHITECT UNLESS THERE IS NOTHING ELSE IN THE WHOLE WORLD YOU WANT TO DO! I have been in the business about 15 years. You know how many truly happy architects I have met -- about maybe 1! Although I couldn't pick him out of a lineup if I had too. ALL of the others are disillusioned, frustrated, and more and more completely ticked off!!! SORRY for the rant -- but, my god, please don't do it!!! See the link: http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_compresult.asp?zipcode=&metrocode=&statecode=&state=&metro=&city=&geo=U.S.+National+Averages&jobtitle=Architect+I&search=&narrowdesc=Architecture&narrowcode=DD01&r=salswz_swzttsbtn_psr&p=&s=salary&geocode=&jobcode=DD19000042 BASE SALARY | BONUSES | BENEFITS Base pay only Data as of February 2005 Architect I 25th%ile Median 75th%ile the United States $29,865 $33,884 $37,481 Please realize it takes 5 years of schooling at a NAAB accredited school which literally takes about 100 sleepless nights over 5 years. To get into a NAAB school you need a 3.9 in high school to get into a public shool or $80K-90K for a private school with less I.Q. requirements. It also requires NCARB IDP or even worse the California CIDP. That is suppose to take 3 years, but more realistically 6-7 years. Once you are past the first 10 years, then you get to take 9 written exams, including structural, building design, code, site design, means and methods, and much much more. Once you can pass those you get a board style oral interview exam for a total of 10 exams. I know three guys at or around 140 points that didn't pass it their first time... Once you get done with that you are an architect -- and get paid jack sh&*!!! If you are smart enough to be an architect, go to law school, go premed, go crazy!!! Just don't go into architecture. You will be sorry. You ex-wife will be sorry. Your kids will be sorry!!! The upside is that every time the economy, or Alan Greenspan, so much as passes gas -- you have a 20%-50% chance of getting laid off because everything in architecture is mortgage financed. Therefore everytime the economy slips you got nothing to do. IF the economy (ever) goes up, Greenspan throws the interest rate switch and you are out of work. The nice part is that you can always move back in with your parents -- so you don't miss a student loan payment!!! DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanna_be_architect Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 Are you being for real? Cause if you are, you are not the only person to tell me just to forget about it. The money isnt that great and it takes forever in school and then with the internship, its not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb602 Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 But I have heard of a "designer" getting a licensed architect to look over his plans and stamp for for him, is this legal? No it's not legal, and the architect who signs his plans could easily lose his license for doing so. Nevertheless, it probably happens all the time. The short answer is, if you want to design buildings of any kind, you need to be an architect. Ted has some good points, but I wouldn't let that discourage you if architecture is something you really want to pursue. It's absolutely true that you will probably make substantially less money than many of your peers who are no smarter or harder working than you. It's also true that the US in general places very little value on good architecture. (Take a look at Spain or Germany for examples of the complete opposite.) But every career has it's hassles and stressors. Personally, I really can't think of any career that I would rather have than architecture. I don't want to convince you either way, but if you're interested, and it sounds like you are, the only way you can answer the question for yourself is to try it out. There are several summer programs for people of high school age and older that can give you a great introduction to architecture. Here are a few: Cornell http://www.architecture.cornell.edu/html/programs_study_summer.htm Columbia http://www.arch.columbia.edu/introarch/ Harvard http://www.gsd.harvard.edu/professional/career_discovery/ Keep posting questions. There are plenty of architects around to answer them. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanna_be_architect Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 there is no doubt in my mind that I want to be a architect. I have the junior college done, and have looked at some colleges in my area that are accredited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 study architecture, you'll love it. it is true that most people who enter the profession grow to hate it very quickly, but very few of those people regret studying architecture. personally, i think it is the best education you could possibly get. i have friends who've graduated and are working in fields from film/set design to conservation/social history research, to one friend who's now a florist. no one i know that has left the architecture office job has ever regretted studying architecture, they just hated the profession. there's a lot of 3d illustrators on this site that went to architecture school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I'm not an Architect, I'm an Architectural Technician. The difference is Technicians (or Technologists) go through a comparatively short, simple, construction based course and learn very little about design. I was advised to go down this route by my friend's dad who is an Architect. He asked if I loved Architecture and I said no. I'm more interested in design now than I ever was but I still have no desire to be an Architect. I'm qualified to design any kind of building and am able to produce all the working drawings. The only restrictions I have are those I put on myself knowing the limitations of my education. After 10 years in the industry, I was earning more than 95% of the Architects I dealt with day to day mainly because I have always worked for housebuilders who give huge amounts of responsibility to Technicians due to the lack of design kudos needed. It was the right career choice for me and it's worth considering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gipper51 Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I'm in a similar boat as IC: I'm and "architectural technician", not an architect. I have a two year degree from a non-accredited school that basically tought engineering and CAD with very little design. I spend most of my day working on AutoCAD and working with engineers. I get to play with Photoshop and Pagemaker occasionally to get stuff ready for interviews and presentations. I really want to learn Max and do some rendering in the future. To be honest, I'm not sure I really would want to be an architect. I only have about 4 years of experience in the industry and have worked at two different firms. One was small with about 10 people and the one I'm at now has about 90 people over 4 offices. From what I've seen, once you become a licensed architect is when the fun stops for alot of people. Many architects in our company very rarely draw or design. They spend most of their time on the phone working out issues with contractors or writing specs or reviewing drawings others have done. They are essentially a desk jockey doing alot of admistrative work and many of them don't care for it and say they had more fun back in their early days when they were drawing more. To me it just seems like they are not doing any of the things that originally attracted them to the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckytohaveher Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 To answer your question -- I AM DEAD SERIOUS!!! I am both AIA and NCARB. I've done the work, put in the time, etc. I have worked on some huge projects over the years with great design, name recognition, and people. I have been VERY fortunate with my career. That being said, I am the exception. Anyone can design anything. To get a building permit anywhere you have to have an architectural stamp, approved by that particular state, by a licensed architect. People who are licensed, especially in the residential market, sign drawings by people who are unlicensed. The caveat is that the architect signing the plans is putting his license, liability, and financial responsibility on the line. You do not need to be licensed to work in the field. In fact, the ratio of licensed to unlicensed people is dropping all the time. See the demographics: These are the AIA's own numbers for California, a state of 35 Million people. Mind you they had a reinstatement plan for 2 of the last 4 years to keep the numbers up. If you love the design work and rendering go ahead and do it! It is really fun to work on projects. My main point is this: The ROI on becoming a licensed architect is (-1000000000X)!!! Do you want the red pill or the blue pill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 DON'T DO IT!!!DON'T DO IT!!! Ok... I won't be that dramatic, but I have to say, there are a lot of issues with architecture, which is why I got out of it. Salary is a big one, but there are others. First of all, in the US... have you seen the crap that is being built? IMHO, the US is at an all time low in terms of nice architecture... and I don't want to get into it too much, but I blame two groups. Developers (people with an MBA who think they know what people would like... the equivalent to Hollywood producers), and real estate agents, who convince you to put cheap crown molding in your house to raise its value... and that your house needs to fit in the mold of "Ranch," "Mediterranean," ... Architects are spineless today when it comes to design. And those old fuddy duddy Po-mo architects with their bowties just won't die... well... PJ just died, but he doesn't really count as much. If you are interested in design... go to Europe... sure they have BAD architecture there too, but less of it. In the US you just end up getting screwed all the time. Screwed by the consultants, by the developer, the facility manager. I remember just seeing a letter in Dwell Magazine where someone complained that Dwell stated that architects are typically around 10% to 20% of the cost... They said architects should be paid around 5% to 10%... Talk about getting screwed. 4 years of undergrad, and 3.5 years of grad... I value my education because it was diverse enough to let me get into VFX. BTW... I work with 4 other ex-architects. oh yeah... I also wanted to be an architect since I was 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanna_be_architect Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 Great info, guys. Keep them coming. If you are a architectural technician, can you ever go own your own and start a firm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I think Luckytohaveher is not telling the truth!!!! He is short! Don't do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 A Technician can start a firm in the UK. I don't know about the U.S. A lot of firms look down on Technicians but others don't and appoint them as Partners and Associates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanna_be_architect Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 A Technician can start a firm in the UK. I don't know about the U.S. A lot of firms look down on Technicians but others don't and appoint them as Partners and Associates. Can anyone from the US comment on this? BTW- thanks buddy for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Our firm had a contractor that officed with us that took on design tasks for restaurants. He was approached by another company with better benefits and pay, so we lost his design abilities recently. Another employee here - in a very high position, also was approached with better benefits and pay, and he has moved on as well. Both of them were very good designers, and the second was very good at project management and coordination, and worked on projects all over the country. However, neither of them were registered architects, and must have their drawings stamped by an architect before the drawings leave our office. I have been told that anyone can "design" a building. But if it involves the public's safety, the drawings must be stamped by a registered architect. Just be certain that if you are not a registered architect that you never refer to yourself or your services as an architect or architectural. You're providing design services, which I was told anyone can do. This may not hold true everywhere, but it does in my area. I agree about the architects not getting to do the fun stuff (as much). The higher up you get the more responsibilities and management you take on. This is definitely true in our office. If design work is what you love, there will always be a place for you. Our office is in desparate need of one at the moment, as I'm sure many others are as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb602 Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Can anyone from the US comment on this? We don't have an equivalent to an Architectural Technician in the US. Again, you may be able to design a building without a license, just like it's possible drive without a license – as long as you don't get caught. Plan stamping, which is described in the post above, is illegal and could very quickly lead to the loss of your license. You might get away with it for a while, but it isn't a good practice to build your career on. There are plenty of good reasons to pursue architecture or to leave it, but I would take dire warnings in a 48 point font with a grain of salt. Also, people that have left the profession (absolutely nothing wrong with that) are probably going to be somewhat biased against it. I suggest you talk to some practicing architects, visit a couple of architecture schools in your area, and go look at some good buildings. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Great info, guys. Keep them coming. If you are a architectural technician, can you ever go own your own and start a firm? Usually when people start a firm, you will have partners with different skills that start it together. A two person firm may typically have one architect that is very design oriented, and one that is very technical. You may also see a three person firm... one that is designer, one technical, and one a really good shmooser that brings in the work by going to a lot of parties. BTW... even if I left architect, I still love it... I just hate practicing it. It would take me 15 years of practicing architecture to make what I'm making now.... and my salary is condered low for my industry. Not that money is the ONLY reason.... but you try living in LA under an architecture salary... my auto mechanic makes more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I don't want to start an argument here, but I don't want people to get the idea that what my firm is doing is illegal. I'm just a draftsman, but I want to do my best to provide solid information. I did a quick search on Google. The rules seem to vary from state to state. In California, it seems you'd have a hard time building a barn to put your horses in if you're not a registered architect. In Mississippi "A non-resident architectural firm, with no members registered in this state, may form a joint venture or association with a resident architectural firm if:" (among other things) "the construction documents and specifications are prepared under the responsible control of the Mississippi architect" This is from a website that provides house plans: Q: Are you registered architects (AIA)?" A: No we are not, we are residential designers. In the states we live in (Oregon and Wisconsin), we do not need to be registered to design a one or two-family house. We can also work in adjoining states like Illinois, Washington, etc., or anywhere that does not require an architect's stamp on a house design. You can still work with us if you live in one of those states, but you would have to find a locally registered architect that would be willing to review and stamp our plans. You will also have to do this if you purchase our plans "as is". So, as I believe I said, it may vary from state to state, but you do not (always) need to be a registered architect to draw buildings. If you design something, and work out a contract with a registered architect to review, stamp, make site visits (if required), etc., and take full legal responsibility for the safety of the project, then there is nothing illegal about "plan stamping", and should not be called out as such as a global comparison to driving without a license. If you can find something that says "plan stamping" is 100% legal 7 days a week 24 hrs. a day anywhere and everywhere, I'd like to see it, because I'm sure my firm would appreciate the head's up before Johnny Law pays us a visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Excellent post. One name comes to mind 'Craig Ellwood' (Case study homes,California), worked as a cost and estimater for home building, then started designing homes and had licensed Architects stamp the plans. He was consided one of the greatest home designers in California, he started a firm and hired Architects, he worked for years until he got his license. Here in California the 'Interior designer or designer' have taken the role of Architects, they have the ear of the clients and the Architect takes a back seat, cross checking with the interior designer, but in the end if something goes wrong all fingers point to the Architect and the designer is out of site. In Australia an Architect technician can start their own firm, and they make really great money and are always busy. One thing my teacher always repeated was "make sure you have really really good insurance". I have not taken my license yet, I like what I do, prepare drawings, designing and solving problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanna_be_architect Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 Eric, thanks for the info. So say I start a firm and hire a architect that works for me, and we both do the design, does he get full credit for the work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 The firm will get the credit unless your name is the firm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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