vizwhiz Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 wait a Minute, now wait a d*mn Minute WHERE IS RICHARD McCARTHY's excellent IMAGES ???? no way That you can leave THE DUDE OUT of This He is in a CLASS ALL BY HIMSELF #31 ** Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I'm sure their making up a WHOLE new catagory for those inpiring works - the computing power alone needed to create such work is incredible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFinkell Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I am bummed I didn't make it You can't blame a guy for trying though, and at least giving it a shot and not being intimidated ... maybe someday I'll join y'all. The winning images are awesome and give me something to aspire to. I congratulate you all. I will keep plugging away at http://www.DezignViz.com/ Thank you for the opportunity, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicja Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Beautiful gift on my birthday;) Thank you! Best wishes for ALL! Alicja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Cassil Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I noticed it was your b-day ealier. Happy Birthday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Congrats everyone and happy birthday Alicja. I looked at the entries and they are all top-notch images. I don't envy the judges their jobs in the coming months, trying to pick from all that talent. The contestants are also in for a lot of hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I'll throw my congrats in as well! I think it's a good mix in the top 30 and should make for some interesting results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeraldH Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Congrats to all...finalist or not...I enjoyed the exposure to such fine work. ...wonder who 31 was?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Johnson Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 I noticed it was your b-day ealier. Happy Birthday! Congrats Brian!!!! Your bosses should definately get an earfull about this. Chris J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.C Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 First, I'd like to congratulate everyone. Now just a to let you know that I had never thought of archviz as an art until I saw this post http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9348 by NIALL BROWNE (santos) my jaw still on the floor damm this is some inspiring work and the architecture is.....what can I say!!..... I just want to hang these up in my studio's walls if there was a chance. Ok so I said it I'm your No. 1 fan. I guess I got a favorite, good luck to everyone. J.Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelgalang Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 i can't wait to see what the challenges maybe upcoming for them. personally however i think that the difference in level of the finalists vary greatly. i see already a select few that are very good and some others that i feel should not even be there, but that's just my opinion. this is a wish, but i would LOVE to see these guys be flown somewhere, given 2 or 3 computers (and whatever software they require) let them bring any textures they want (no premade models), assign the same series of tasks and then lock them up in a room for 5 days at a time. (although if i remember correctly this will actually be done to the 5 finalists? not sure). if i had the time i want to be a judge too (yeah right i can't even get 5 hours of sleep a day, and i thought that Verrari rack would have eased my troubles, guess not) but this sure seems fun, the contest and all. especially what happens from now on. can't wait...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dway Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Congrats to the finalists. Kind of sucks to have to open three windows from the frontpage story to finally see who they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majker Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 GOOD JOB EVERYONE! " Dobra robota Rodacy!" Ciesze sie bardzo że w gronie 30 najlepszych znalazły sie Polskie nazwiska!!! Powodzenia w dalszej eliminacji ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabkal Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 I disagree. Some of the best CG work I have seen was done for clients under deadline with all of the same pressures that most of experience. Companies like Artmaze, Smoothe, Hayes Davidson, AMD, Neoscape all output amazing pieces and are some of the best in the industry. One thing to note, that while they might be large companies, much of the finishing work and core of the imagery is usually done by one person. Jeff, the fact is well known that the companies you mentioned charge multiple times more than other companies like the one I just quit working for two weeks ago. they have bigger budgets, better staff, technicians, better computers and render farms. they are more equipped in every aspect. they get more money, they spend more money, they pay better salaries. They have capabilities that smaller underpaying/underpaid companies lack. and you are dead wrong: it takes time to produce good artwork. and these companies they have 2-3 people or more working on one project. being a jack of all trades myself and having to do everything makes me aware of things you might have missed while modeling furniture. it's a service like all other services. it's a business. it's not magic. there's no freaking "EASY" button like at Staples. you work hard. you work nights and weekends all your life employed at smoothe or whatever and you get paid 20% of what you generate at the most. and the manager goes camping and hyking. the fact is good money+good time=good renderings little money+no time = average renderings little money + good time + love for the craft = good renderings the only time Lon grohs comes up with an amazing rendering in two days is when the model was already done by someone else before that. most of their renderings or at least the good ones have three names signed under them. and I speak from experience my average is 75 renderings/year with 20 hours average on each from zero to finish. sorry if I seemed hysteric but your weird philosophy kept me awake for the last 5 days. there are NO great renderings that were done in 1 or 2 days. except if the architecture is fabulous by itself, that is the subject is amazing. or if the artist is Davinci. there's no way you can convince me of the contrary, especially that most of your experience is with furniture. you don't have the hectic hands on experience I went through while I was raising Howard Models from the ashes (then I quit. funny isn't it?). you're a marketing person now. everything is gift wrapped and floating in a pink sky with fluffy sugar clouds. you need to say positive stuff about all the artists and companies you will probalby encounter while marketing for Smoothe. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beno Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Jeff, the fact is well known that the companies you mentioned charge multiple times more than other companies like the one I just quit working for two weeks ago. they have bigger budgets, better staff, technicians, better computers and render farms. they are more equipped in every aspect. they get more money, they spend more money, they pay better salaries. They have capabilities that smaller underpaying/underpaid companies lack. and you are dead wrong: it takes time to produce good artwork. and these companies they have 2-3 people or more working on one project. being a jack of all trades myself and having to do everything makes me aware of things you might have missed while modeling furniture. it's a service like all other services. it's a business. it's not magic. there's no freaking "EASY" button like at Staples. you work hard. you work nights and weekends all your life employed at smoothe or whatever and you get paid 20% of what you generate at the most. and the manager goes camping and hyking. the fact is good money+good time=good renderings little money+no time = average renderings little money + good time + love for the craft = good renderings the only time Lon grohs comes up with an amazing rendering in two days is when the model was already done by someone else before that. most of their renderings or at least the good ones have three names signed under them. and I speak from experience my average is 75 renderings/year with 20 hours average on each from zero to finish. sorry if I seemed hysteric but your weird philosophy kept me awake for the last 5 days. there are NO great renderings that were done in 1 or 2 days. except if the architecture is fabulous by itself, that is the subject is amazing. or if the artist is Davinci. there's no way you can convince me of the contrary, especially that most of your experience is with furniture. you don't have the hectic hands on experience I went through while I was raising Howard Models from the ashes (then I quit. funny isn't it?). you're a marketing person now. everything is gift wrapped and floating in a pink sky with fluffy sugar clouds. you need to say positive stuff about all the artists and companies you will probalby encounter while marketing for Smoothe. . Thank you Ihab - I'm glad to see someone else was bothered by Jeff's 'logic'. Say what you want, but there never were or ever will be great 3D arch. rendering made in no time, with no money in understaffed offices with outdated 3D hardware / software. That's a hand-on experience, hard learned in 13 years of 3D visualization. It's a simple but harsh reality in this business. And Jeff - a suggestion for next year's competition: You can't have apples and oranges running for the same prize. Half of the qualified images were created for 'inner spiritual needs' with no deadlines / pressure / commercial motives and a complete artistic liberty in terms of lighting, composition and contained scene elements. The other half were real-world production images. Everything within an image must have a reason and a purpose under a tight Client control. Here, a 3D artist must find a way to deliver a fine product before the Client manages to ruin it all. Such renderings deserve a different eye and an appreciative mind. I don't think anyone but those who got their hands dirty with a million mouse clicks per project and many nights without sleep, back-breaking workload in a mentally highly stressful situation can fully appreciate what these guys are against. Daily and non-stop. Those guys are the 3D artists I truly respect. Frankly Jeff, you comment was as uninformed as it was insensitive if not downright patronizing. best regards Beno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted March 19, 2005 Author Share Posted March 19, 2005 Before I actually reply to the these outright rude and condecending comments from Ihab and Beno let me first tell you that a competition like this does not just roll off a truck all wrapped up and ready to go. I have busted my ***ing ass to put this competition on for the community and when people like you take it upon yourselves to rip me a new one on the forums, let me tell you it really pisses me off and quite frankly makes me wonder why the hell I do half of what I do for the community! And belive me it is ALOT. Ihab Kalache wrote: "...and you are dead wrong: it takes time to produce good artwork. and these companies they have 2-3 people or more working on one project. being a jack of all trades myself and having to do everything makes me aware of things you might have missed while modeling furniture." Jeff: Please do let me know where I posted that it does not take time to produce good artwork. And what the hell is your comment about me having missed something "while modeling furniture". Obviously this places me beneath you? Yeah I did start my career there, but in case you missed it I've since been hired by two companies to start an international office for Smoothe and have having now left there I was hired by another company to launch their new visualization company. Apparently they must think I know a thing or two about the industry and how it works. I think you could give me a bit more credit no? You are talking to me like I've never done a rendering before. I've worked on everything from TV commercials, to large scale commercial develpments, skyscrapers, offices, and yes even furniture as you have so politely put it. You think I have never worked hard in my career or know what it takes to produce a good rendering? While marketing has been part of all my jobs, guess what, production makes up 70% of my time, so before you start shooting your mouth off about "pink sky and fluffy clouds" maybe you should do a bit of research before assuming you know everything about what I do and what my capabilities are. Between running a CG company and this site I work on AVERAGE 16-18 hours a day and MANY all-nighters. I've done this for the past 4 years. yeah I think I know what hard work is. I can not believe I have to actually defend myself for suggesting that production work done for paying clients can be just as good as a person that takes 5 weeks to do an "art" piece for themselves. Beno Wrote: "...Say what you want, but there never were or ever will be great 3D arch. rendering made in no time, with no money in understaffed offices with outdated 3D hardware / software. " Jeff: Again WHERE did I ever say that good rendering did not take time?? I said that a production studio is equally cabable of producing good work as someone who is not under deadlines. And yes in the big studios there ARE projects that are run start to finish by ONE person. Beno Wrote: "Frankly Jeff, you comment was as uninformed as it was insensitive if not downright patronizing." WHAT?? Try re-reading my post. There was nothing patronizing about it. This post however IS and IS meant to be. After the comments from you and Ihab, I've about had it from you two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabkal Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Between running a CG company and this site I work on AVERAGE 16-18 hours a day and MANY all-nighters. I've done this for the past 4 years. yeah I think I know what hard work is. I do appreciate your hard work. please don't take my comments in the last post personnally. I can't judge you I don't know you. I wasn't against the person I was against some concepts and ideas. It took me 5 days to reply because I wanted to make sure that these are really my feelings about the subject and not to be hasty. I am still 100% behind my post but I do not want anyone to feel insulted. Grow a shell in this angry world it'll help you. you might have seen much worse if you spent 20 years in bomb shelters like I did in Beirut. And I do not know how to do wonderfull furntiure like you. I have been doing warehouses and boring projects non stop for the last 3 years. definitely furniture is better than warehouses. Hey if it makes you feel better: I wish I was doing furniture. When I said you were doing furniture I meant you missed out on some experience and not that I am racist against furniture. furniture is good. I'm equally fond of furniture and high rises. just don't like to do warehouses for three years. that's why I quit my job. one last note: you give 30 days for the competitors to come out with an interior and another 30 for the exterior (challenges 2 and 3?). thus it takes 30 days to come out with a good rendering. too bad all my clients wanted it yesterday. and too bad it's a warehouse and not a nice fine challenging detailed piece of furniture. So Smoothe didn't work out? Sorry... Probably they would've taken advantage of you and made you work long hours with no overtime pay. Which brings me to suggest why don't you have a new portion of your website that puts some ethical guidlines to help artists understand how to protect themselves against being underpaid, abused, how to get the benefits they need to survive, you know...Cashiers have more benefits than some computer artists in the states. not laws but merely guidelines. and I like how you put the no at the end of the sentence. very french. non? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evanmoses Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Hi Jeff, You wrote in your last post that seeing rude, inconsiderate (and in my opinion dumb and bitter) posts like the ones earlier in this thread "makes me wonder why the hell I do half of what I do for the community! And belive me it is ALOT." I just wanted to respond in support of you and what you do on this site. I know it's easier to say than do, but I hope in times like this that you can remember the thousands of people who have benefitted from this site and the large fraction of those who appreciate your efforts and are very thankful on a daily basis for what you do. I, personally, am really incredibly grateful that this site exists as I am grateful for the amazing competition that you put together. That a couple of people want to project all of their bad experiences in the industry (and possibly in life) onto this site, this competition and you shouldn't detract in any way from what you've done, but should just expose how anti-social they are. Anyways, I hope that you don't let a couple bad apples spoil the bunch because there are a lot of apples on this site who really appreciate what you do and were probably as upset as me to read those ridiculous comments and to see how upset you were in response. To the perpetrators: these forums might be the right place to air your beefs about the industry, but the way in which you did it couldn't have been more wrong. get a life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabkal Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Hi Jeff, You wrote in your last post that seeing rude, inconsiderate (and in my opinion dumb and bitter) posts like the ones earlier in this thread "makes me wonder why the hell I do half of what I do for the community! And belive me it is ALOT." I just wanted to respond in support of you and what you do on this site. I know it's easier to say than do, but I hope in times like this that you can remember the thousands of people who have benefitted from this site and the large fraction of those who appreciate your efforts and are very thankful on a daily basis for what you do. I, personally, am really incredibly grateful that this site exists as I am grateful for the amazing competition that you put together. That a couple of people want to project all of their bad experiences in the industry (and possibly in life) onto this site, this competition and you shouldn't detract in any way from what you've done, but should just expose how anti-social they are. Anyways, I hope that you don't let a couple bad apples spoil the bunch because there are a lot of apples on this site who really appreciate what you do and were probably as upset as me to read those ridiculous comments and to see how upset you were in response. To the perpetrators: these forums might be the right place to air your beefs about the industry, but the way in which you did it couldn't have been more wrong. get a life. if we keep calling each other names we will be posting here till we die. I saw no one ruder than you. I will no longer respond to this thread. you were more abusive and rude than anyone on CGarchitect's forums ever. go get a life yourself. there are a couple of bad words that are running through my head that I won't post for the sake of keeping this site free of insults. I did not call anyone bad names and you did. you are not a good person. my opinions are not dumb they are mine you have no right to call them that way if they differ from yours. they are bitter however. and I am not a bad apple I am a human being with opinions, thoughts and feelings respect me for that at least. at 22 you are still young, impulsive and inconsiderate. when you're 30 you might be wiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Nelson Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 I think all these complaints about Jeff & the competition are unnecessary & innapropriate. Do I expect the rules to be custom tailored to my individual needs so I feel like I have a good chance of winning? No. I read the rules, I understand the rules, and I will obey the rules & not fight them along the way. This is such a great thing thats happening for the architectural cg community, its a shame to hear so many negative things about it. And it of course is personally insulting to Jeff & the judges who never had to do this in the first place. Come on, its supposed to be fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evanmoses Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Dear Ihab, I apologize for offending and I should have been more diplomatic in writing my post. My post was meant to support Jeff and the wonderful things that he does on this site and I should have kept it to that, but, in truth, I was upset. Once again, I apologize. However, I do feel like I need to defend myself as to certain things that you put in your post, and I will intersperse my responses into what you wrote. >if we keep calling each other names we will be posting here till we die. I agree. >I saw no one ruder than you. I respectfully disagree. I personally believe my comments to be far less personal and disruptive to the community than some posted on this thread. >I will no longer respond to this thread. That's fair enough. I will also cease and desist after this post, otherwise we will, as you said, "be posting here till we die". >you were more abusive and rude than anyone on CGarchitect's forums ever. once again, I disagree. >go get a life yourself. I'm afraid I already have one. I do, however, apologize for saying that. It was inappropriate and wrong of me. I have no idea about your life and should not have made comments on it. But that is perhaps what I am destined to do given that I'm so young and impulsive and all. >there are a couple of bad words that are running through my head that I won't post for the sake of keeping this site free of insults. That's probably for the best. I, too, will refrain. >I did not call anyone bad names and you did. you are not a good person. I just checked my post for possible bad names. Anti-social? perpetrator? all other "names" were specifically descriptive of the posts and not of people as I have no idea what you or others on this site are like as people. Anti-social, well because I think that the comments were disruptive to what is normally a very social and helpful forum. A perpetrator is someone who comments an offense and from Jeff's posts it's pretty clear (to me at least) that he feels an offense has been committed against him. As for the part about me not being a good person, well, you caught me. But all the people that are important in my life (which of course you know nothing about) would disagree. > my opinions are not dumb they are mine you have no right to call them that way if they differ from yours. As I said in my post, the standard of "dumb" was mine and mine alone. Completely subjective and, like your thoughts on the contest (which derided it to the point of calling it dumb), an opinion. I feel this way because I feel they actually have little to do with the contest per se, were in my opinion inaccurate (jeff's rebuttal is far better than any I could come up with on this point) and generally unhelpful. >they are bitter however. and I am not a bad apple I am a human being with opinions, thoughts and feelings respect me for that at least. In my idiomatic reference to bad apples, I was speaking of the comments, not the people. I do respect you as a human being, but I am not required to respect your opinions, especially when they take away from a community that enjoy. >at 22 you are still young, impulsive and inconsiderate. when you're 30 you might be wiser. I find this personal comment to be hurtful and least appropriate of all. "Age"ism is another form of discrimination and my age has absolutely nothing to do with my comments or my character. If I had been 50, I feel that I would have written the same response in supporting someone who had come under attack in the community for which he is most responsible. I stand behind my comments with the aforementioned exceptions and am truly sorry if you feel my age denies them having any real weight. Once again, I have no problem with you but only with your comments, I apologize for telling you to get a life and hope that we can "live together" in this wonderful community without animosity from here on in. To everyone else: sorry for the long post and the public manner in which this is being aired. Sincerely, Evan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtiscareno Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 First of all lets just say thanks to the cg community, to Jeff and to the opportunity that we all can comment almost anything here. That is why probably Ihab came from Beirut to the US, to have FREEDOMS! But also lets remember that with Freedom comes responsibility, we would all would have liked to be part of the 30, but that is why there are rules and guidelines for this and any other competition. Is it perfect, well of course not, but what is? Just like Tim said, deal with it. Is this competiton going to tell us who is the World Best Arch CG Artist, NO, but of all the entries and the finalist, who ever wins is going to be the best at this particualr moment with this particular rules and challenges. They are going to feel wonderful and the prizes are GREAT!!! But Ihab and Beno, come on guys, this is a community to help each other not to fret and complain and feel left out. WE ALL WORK OUR ASSES, ALL DAY, EVERYDAY. Just read the threads of the students or the architects (like myself) working not only with cg but with the whole project, from client, city, codes, rules, budget, construction, contractors, etc. Man if you feel oppresed working on warehouse what do you think we architects that also do cg feel like it when we dont even get to work on cg or desing, just paperwork, faxes, calls and contractors, but we do it beacuse we love it and if we dont love it well, change profession. And Jeff, I understand why you "had" to responed to their "vauge" comments, but honestly we all know what you do and specially what you have done to the arch viz community in creating, mantaining and expanding this forum, I dont know what you do for work but I do know what you have done and are doing to the community, personally without the worldwide community help I would probably still be waiting for the radiosity to be finished in accurender, but know I am using Viz, Max, Brazil, not perfect but hey with practice and the help of this forum maybe some of us will get to the 30 finalists next or another year. This is from me, Jeff: THANKS FOR ALL THE WORK AND FOR NOT ONLY KEEPING THIS FROUM ALIVE BUT MAKING IT GROW AND EXPAND EVERY DAY TO BETTER PLACES! There is a mexican saying:"A palabras necias, oidos sordos", in english: "With stubborn words, deaf ears" P.S. To 30 finalist, who is using Brazil??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted March 21, 2005 Author Share Posted March 21, 2005 Thanks Jorge and everyone else for their kind words and feedback here, via PM and email. Your feedback is greatly appreciated. Had some individuals simply complained about the challenge itself, I would probably have never responded, nor cared for that matter, but I was compelled to respond when my character, work ethic, and skills were put in question. Made all the worse by the fact the comments came from somone in the industry whos work I respected and whose work was even chosen to represent CGA in one of the first CGA ads put into an industry publication. In any case, I've aired my side, so I consider the matter close, and am really lookign forward to the results of the first challenge. I have to admit what I have seen so far ha sfar exceeded my expectectations and think the competition for a whole will be a huge success. I'm now starting preparations for the SIGGRAPH party and will be posting detail in the next few months. I'm calling today to inquire about holding the event at the Disney Concert Hall...we'll see...I hope it is not too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawyer Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Jeff, No no. I was really trying to talk myself out of going to Siggraph this year. That would be amazing! (Hold it at night so we don't get blinded ) I would go just for the CGA event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFinkell Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 I am in agreement with Tim Nelson. I am thankful to Jeff for providing this opportunity. I too read the rules, understood the rules, and accepted & obeyed the rules. I knew my images probably would not make it for they were more production oriented (http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9043) than artistic. But the bottom line was I was still able to try. Sure I was disappointed that there could not have been a category better suited to my work, but there wasn't, and I understood this but decided to try just the same. Looking at the winners themselves I am impressed and humbled. However, am I too intimidated to try again next year, certainly not. I am also glad that though I did not win I still have access to the additional challenge material so I can at least still play along with the big guys. I like my own work and see value in it. If no one else does there is no harm in that. If they do, it is just gravy. Isn't this the case for any artist? I would modify Ivan's formula's a bit, love for the craft = vocation/self-satisfaction and perhaps, good renderings in the eyes of others. Thanks Jeff and congratulations winners. John DezignViz.com http://www.DezignViz.com/ Design Modeling & Visualization Integration USA (ET, GMT -05:00) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now