garethace Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Intel will add L3 cache to the Xeon DP http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20030417095228.html itanium2 = the povray beast http://www.haveland.com/index.htm?povbench/index.php P4-3Ghz+875P(FSB800): SPECint 1143, SPECfp 1200 http://www.tecchannel.de/hardware/1065/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 http://www.3dluvr.com/content/ Links to Canterwood reviews (3dluvr techbits). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Not to sound pro-intel here.... But Intel just cut prices 32%. Those 700-800 USD 3.06 chips are now hovering around the 390 USD mark on pricewatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted April 22, 2003 Author Share Posted April 22, 2003 bios fix for 800fsb 3Ghz P4s http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9071 I think the following article and benchmarks, more or less confirm my believe that Dual Xeon workstations are not the ideal solution for a single person cg artist's work - i.e. modelling, painting and rendering. The single 3.06 HT Xeon seems a much better option over the 2.8 GHZ Dual Xeon, or the single processor nForce 2 with a fast AMD athlon. http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=55000263 [ April 22, 2003, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: garethace ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 The single 3.06 HT Xeon seems a much better option over the 2.8 GHZ Dual Xeon, or the single processor nForce 2 with a fast AMD athlon. I'd mark this as a debatable subject. I could see recommending a 3.06 HT over a Nforce2 2800+ in certain situations with certain applications, but by no means is it a "catch all" superior solution. And considering how fast a dual xeon is in vray. I'd wish for everyone to have one . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 The general point i am trying to make though, i that for some applications the additional expense spent on dual processors may not be worth the effort. I feel that in the past, dual processors were of much greater importance than today. Today software is better optimised, windows is far less suspect, components like disk subsystems and gpus, which always caused problems before are now okay. Memory is faster, cheaper and more plentiful. Things have improved emensely for the cg artist. It is just that i see so many benchmarks being won now by the Intel 3.06 GHZ systems, it makes me wonder just how useful the dual system really can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 HEllo Ouch.... I can NOT agree with you. Also if the software you using everyday is not HT you will be ALLWAYS faster with SMP Systems. Not because some Photoshop filters are 10% or 25% faster, but because the overall system speed is much faster. Also for LS (which) is SingleThreaded you will profit from an SMP System. While LS rendering some p files, you can work with your system without any speed problems. I'll never ever see a single CPU system on my desktop. So, people expecially with 3d jobs, allways use SMP systems (also if the main software is only Single Threaded). Richie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 Good positive reply on the side of the dual system arguement for sure. But, given the hunger of some advanced graphics cards nowadays for extremely fast cpus, i think for alot of texturing and in-shaded-viewport operations done using MAX or Maya and so on... the fastest cpu available is always on the single cpu systems. The fastest memory subsystems are also usually found on single cpu systems nowadays, which are clocked up to the max, to compete in mhz wars between amd and intel. So for any texture intensive in-shaded-viewport DX8 or DX9 cg work, (like gaming type of computer requirements) i believe the single cpu system with the fastest newest most expensive graphics board may hold an edge. For instance, this new kind of under $100 software breed coming out. Far from being a serious software yet. http://www.mad-fx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted April 29, 2003 Author Share Posted April 29, 2003 Some more quick updates on the Intel processor/platform/memory releases. DDR400 Validation Testing Listed below are the results of testing a small sample of DDR DIMM modules on Intel® based motherboards. http://www.intel.com/technology/memory/ddr/valid/dimm_results.htm Error Correction Code (ECC) in Memory Devices– An Overview http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~kwonga/ecs154a/Error_Correction_Code.pdf How big is the latency hit for ECC? http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=95034063 Second, Granite Bay, the most common high performance Intel chipset, Cannot use AGP 8x without using less agressive timings. http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=95034149 P4-2.4C http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=95034196 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted May 7, 2003 Author Share Posted May 7, 2003 Some good comparisons of the Granite Bay versus Canterwood chipsets are beginning to appear. Another strange thing seems to be happening too however - at high resolution game playing the Pentium 4 is being beaten by Athlon chips, while at lower resolution (most common in cpu benchmaking) the Pentium 4 runs away with it. Strange. http://www.ukgamer.com/article.php4?id=238&page=1 http://content.guru3d.com/article.php?cat=review&id=37&pagenumber=8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted May 27, 2003 Author Share Posted May 27, 2003 Interesting problem with HT in Solidedge application, but now solved apparently with V14. http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=95038603 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted June 4, 2003 Author Share Posted June 4, 2003 Nocona, Jayhawk to use 800MHz system bus http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9823 DP 533MHz bus, 667MHz, but 800MHz!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 Are the reviews/benchmarks being altogether fair i wonder? Has marketing more to do with reviews than actual hard facts. http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=105019830 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vizwhiz Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 hi There Greg and garethrace is There a "common" file that we all could download and do our own "benchmark" Tests with? Then we could post the Time results back with whatever the rig configurations that we are running and do a "actual" real-world comparison. however i bought my computer 3 years ago in the Monolastic era (its only a dual PIII 800 mhz dont laugh too hard it cost me $9,000 3 years ago) etc This could possibly give us some current feedback to what cg artists are actually using. or This benchmarks already being done somewhere. i like doing Things myself. Thanks Randy i am hoping to upgrade to a dual HT machine (or whatever is likely later this year after the 64 bit machines push down the existing prices) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Randy, There is a thread in this forum called (cinebench 2003). Its got pages and pages of submitted results, as well as links to download the easy to use benchmark. It doesn't take long to run either . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted June 27, 2003 Author Share Posted June 27, 2003 I am still using a dual Pentium III 1GHZ system for most of my office, web, photoshop, emailing etc. You can't beat them as a general purpose system, for alot of stuff. However, my main system is an AMD single processor Athlon XP, built very cheaply with a good graphics board. Hard to beat on performance for the price. I simply stopped buying high-end 3D Intel rigs, since my use of the system could never justify it. (I spend far more time, just using Photoshop and word typing these days than i do using my copy of VIZ) The dual PIII system was expressly built for using VIZ, but nowadays it has just become my home office system. At work i use MACs most of the time, pretty old ones too - around the 1999/00 era. Impossible to do anything really whiz-bang on hardware little that, but i do my best. How many practices are using Pentiums 500mhz from that same era now for graphics work? But for some reason the MAC based places, tend to hang on to their boxes much, much longer and get alot more value out of the investment. I feel this is a dubious enough philosophy now though - i wonder what i could actually do given the right tools. I'll never know i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted June 30, 2003 Author Share Posted June 30, 2003 Xeon DP 1MB Cache vs Opteron http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=105020249 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Originally posted by garethace: How many practices are using Pentiums 500mhz from that same era now for graphics work? But for some reason the MAC based places, tend to hang on to their boxes much, much longer and get alot more value out of the investment. imho the main reasons mac users hang onto their machines longer than pc users boils down to upgradability and money. pc machines are promoted as having many upgrade options, that can be done at once, or in several stages. there are numerous manufacturers building componets that are competing for your bussiness, driving the prices of hardware down when compared to apple. there is more info and more of a push for windows users to upgrade. you only have so many options to upgrade when you buy a mac, and after you use up those options, you need to buy a new machine. i don't think you have the option to just buy a new motherboard or processor a mac like you can for a pc. i think the cult followers of mac are happy using mac because of the history of mac being better at graphics than windows, and its ease of use, although i don't have experience with OSX. the majority of thing the platforms do are on a relatively level playing field. most apps are available on both platforms. mac still excels at printing and color, and pc still wins in networking and 3d. i am definetly not trying to start a flame war, i am just commenting on reason that might cause a mac user to hold onto their hardware longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted July 1, 2003 Author Share Posted July 1, 2003 No, I understand your sentiment entirely about not wanting to start another MAC/PC flame war. Rather to discuss in an intelligent, unbiased fashion the motives of people choosing to stick with either platform. I think you have summed up the basic advantages of PCs over MACs. Namely in Networking and 3D. I was involved in setting up a new full duplex 100base T switched network for a MAC/PC office once. I can definetly say, that using TCP/IP protocol for all systems - MAC and PC, the PCs were much, much faster at opening/working with the larger files, such as big photoshop or MAX files opened from the main server system (which was a new MAC server to btw). I found the conflict within the practice, the constant battling over whether to buy a MAC version of a software or the equivalent PC version of the software a PITA. I as 'IT person' would have to print out reviews/reports of the choices, and the minortiy MAC lover people in the office who held the more senior positions, would always win the argument. Even though the majority of people working there would have preferred to use AutoDesk products, which were actually working out cheaper than the MAC software we tended to buy. Anyhow, having to buy for two platforms is very inefficient, since you lose out big time, on the licensing discounts you get with 5+, or 10+ installations. My old office went all PC, and rented in the region of 50+ licenses and got a good enough deal. So there is economy is sticking to go one way or the other. I am really, really glad though i have resigned from my position as 'Go-Between' in that particular office - as the stress of having to deal with unhappy CG workers all the time, was getting to me big time. I know that Greg is in this position, of having to tolerate the AMD pro-faction, the Intel pro-faction and the MAC lovers in his current occupation. I wouldn't take his place for love or money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hess Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 I know that Greg is in this position, of having to tolerate the AMD pro-faction, the Intel pro-faction and the MAC lovers in his current occupation. I wouldn't take his place for love or money! Trying to remain as unbiased as possible is such a daunting task . Wish I could get my hands on some new G5's to test , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesar R Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Wish I could get my hands on some new G5's to test , yeah? i wish could get my hand on one to keep period ! I have the option of still taking back my G4 powerbook 17" and exchanging it fot thr G5, but I need portability... I will just have to wait another 8 months or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted July 2, 2003 Author Share Posted July 2, 2003 You should be glad that you haven't bought Pentiums, than you have to change your computer every week and you can't get any work done. In my eyes this is one of the Mac's biggest advantage, your hardware is "new" for a few months in price and performance, and not only for two days. that sickens my ****. When we upgraded to Pentium 4 W2k workstations back in early 2001, from Pentium III NT4 and 98 systems, before a month was over, the pc faction were already asking to be allowed upgrade to Windows XP when it came out!!!! As if Windows XP was some kind of magic formula, that would ultimately allow them to produce better artwork. Or alternatively, not having Windows XP was a step back into the dark ages, and would ultimately prevent them creatively!!! I tried to tell the fools that W2k would have another service pack out by then, SP2 i think, which was better for multi-processor systems especially. But still, the pc faction in the office wasn't satisfied? ? ? Some of the MAC guys here, have been happily using the same MAC for 18months and over, with no complaints other than to upgrade memory or a bigger screen etc. No prizes for guessing who does more work either, and who ends up spending hours reading tomshardware and overclockers.com. I think most of all, that is why the MACs have survived at all in the office - because the people who use them complain less, get more work done as a conseqence and get along better in general. Classic case of tortoise passing out the hare! Trying to remain as unbiased as possible is such a daunting task That is why i gave up my tech position, which wasn't so much a tech position as a liason officer for anyone who wished to submit bitching and complaints 'on the tech side of things'. For two years, i earned a steady income, did absolutely no work of any merit and was exhausted. In fact, when i was very poor at computer applications, starting to learn FormZ and VIZ for the first time ever, back in 1998/99 i can safely say, i did alot more cg projects. When i learned about computers and technical aspects of computing, i suddenly had to put most of my cg work on hold. That is going to change though, and short of upgrading a service pack, dx update or I.e. upgrade to my w2k systems, i will not be even bothering to get into the whole WXP roller coaster ride again. Time to upgrade Suckers! [ July 02, 2003, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: garethace ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingo Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 ......and than with your G5 you have the option to exchange it to the new 15" Powerbook with the G5, and than you have the option to exchange this Powerbook....... You should be glad that you haven't bought Pentiums, than you have to change your computer every week and you can't get any work done. In my eyes this is one of the Mac's biggest advantage, your hardware is "new" for a few months in price and performance, and not only for two days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted July 4, 2003 Author Share Posted July 4, 2003 Check out some Itanium 2 workstation pictures here: http://www.tt-hardware.com/article.php?sid=4579 And check out some more news about SGI's attempts to make new Itanium 2 technology suitable for the scientific community, employing the LInux 64-bit platform for Itanium: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted July 9, 2003 Author Share Posted July 9, 2003 Behold the Opteron Killer! http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=105022340 VIA throws Intel's canterwood on it's head! http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=105022327 VIA's comeback in the P4 market: PT800 http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=105022380 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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