Architects that just won't design!

[aflack]

I work for a reasoanble size architects in London and although all the architects in the office moan that they don't get enough design work, when it comes down to me doing an image asking for feed-back and asking for advice on what I can stick into the model they just aren't interested.

 

This causes me so many problems, I'm not an architect and I haven't got a great deisgn brain. I do a lot of images for the new terminal down at Heathrow airport, checkin stuff and staff accommodation, basically stuff that needs designing but all my images turn out rubbish because I just have nothing to put in the space. If I do stick stuff in there they tell me to take it out because British Airways won't approve it and when I ask them to design something they just say make it up.

 

Does anybody else suffer from these problems and how do you get a round it, I try and do concept images but the problem is they always want realistic images but they just end up looking bland.

[JamesTaylor]

Architects......aaaaarh........ the cause of so much greif for us visualisers!!! always changing, updating picking and pulling our images apart...... because they can't do there job propoerly in the first place!!!!

[aflack]

To be honest I realise that there is no way around the problem. It was more that I'm feeling fed up again at the lack of feedback I am recieving for yet another image.

 

They are all too busy doing nothing to talk to me. Argh!

[JamesTaylor]

we often end up being used as a design tool as opposed to a presentation tool which can become frustrating as we all take pride in our work and try to work towards a solution that we are happy with - an aesthectically pleasing image with lots of details, reflections and shadows etc but when we get there an architect won't really be interested in the detail they're just looking at the massing of the building and as always wanted the image yesterday when they won't be giving you the information to model from until tomorrow.... if there not too busy and manage to remember!!

 

chin up and post some images on the forum for us to crit that way you'll get the job done for the architects and get some constructive crit from others in your shoes.

[Fran]

Hi Adam,

 

When they pull this stunt, ask for permission to speak with their contact person on the client's end. If the client has rigid specifications already in place for their facilities, it is probably documented and could possibly be made available to you.

 

It's up to the architect to decide whether this conveys to the client that he/she isn't doing their job properly.

[Ernest Burden III]

When they pull this stunt, ask for permission to speak with their contact person on the client's end. If the client has rigid specifications already in place for their facilities, it is probably documented and could possibly be made available to you.

 

Very good advice.

 

Large companies often have lots of prepared standards for their facilities, documents, etc. Why not get ahold of it to help you do a better job on their project. If you put the request that way, they should see the importance of sharing with you.

 

I try to never design anything in renderings, since 'oh, just make something up' is always followed by 'oh, but that wasn't what I had in mind'. And I CAN design. No thanks, you're not paying me to make it up.

 

While I share your annoyance at architects (having worked for them for over 20 years) I think it is important to remember that everyone has their own priorities, and what seems like shirking of responsibilty from our point-of-view may really be something else to the architect. We can't always see how others see a situation. It's like trying to work out the motivations of small, furry creatures.

[evanmoses]

While I share your annoyance at architects (having worked for them for over 20 years) I think it is important to remember that everyone has their own priorities, and what seems like shirking of responsibilty from our point-of-view may really be something else to the architect. We can't always see how others see a situation. It's like trying to work out the motivations of small, furry creatures.

 

 

does that mean that architects are small, furry creatures? I mean, I know a few that fit that bill, but still.....

[ecastillor]

this truly is an international issue....Here in Mexico those of us who do Visualization have a lot of "Bastard" babys over the cities....them being buildings or houses that we ended up designing but dont carry our names and certainly were not paid for....we are architects, interior designers, landscape artists... but ultimately dont get neither the credit or the money.

 

I guess the only way around it is to stop the architect and either ask for specific design details or charge for the design itself....

[vizwhiz]

Isnt "mind reading" part of our "job description" ??

maybe we should Think of ourselves as "Visual Conjurers"

 

Image Magicians, vapor-ware design especialists

hey we have "smoke and mirrors" Tools to work with

 

sort of like pulling Rabbits out of your (as..oops) Hat

 

ask Them for a clarification (preferrably on paper)

you could always just ask if THey could "fax" it to you

 

**

 

i once Told a "former" Owner That i dont mind reading Minds

but only The Ones That are BLANK, not FULL OF (..... well, obviously

 

....i dont work There anymore)

 

Thanks

 

Randy

[Ernest Burden III]

sort of like pulling Rabbits out of your (as..oops) Hat

 

Rabbits are always pulled from hats. What would be said to be pulled from your butt would be...monkeys.

[Sawyer]

Butt monkeys?

 

 

I worked for a furry little fellow who never wanted me to show color on the buildings. Thought it confused the clients he did. He seemed scared to use color thought that the client may hate the color but never be able to think of the building without the color and then hate the building. Durn furry little bugger get back under the couch!

[Dan J]

Adam,

 

It's just the nature of the beast. Learning to handle a whip and chair helps.

 

In your contract and initial discussions, did you clarify and stipulate change orders? If you have a clear and tight contract with change orders as extra costs, then perhaps gently reminding them of this and say you will do "what ever it is they want" as long as they don't mind the bill when it arrives.

 

Relax. It sounds like you're going to be on this one for a little while.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've had a client ask me to move a peice of furniture over a couple of feet or can I make the exterior glazing a little less blue and more opaque.

 

Remember, breathe.

 

Good luck

[aflack]

Well you made me laugh!

 

Don't some of you find that you can ask and ask and ask what they want to put into a model and they won't tell you and in the end you have to put something in there for them to say......No we don't want that try something like this?

 

The problem with this project is I have been working on it for the last 5 years, as the building isn't due for completion till 2007. There is very little detailed design work that has gone in yet. My firm are doing some of the interior areas not the main big building which is being down by Richard Rodgers Architects. The architects I work for are my clients so I can't go to anyone above them, the images I am doing help them with the design process so its a pretty rubbish thing to be working on because I'm not going to get any decent images out of it untill 2007.

 

One day I'll get a job at Hayes Davidson.

 

Still never mind it pays the bills.

[bully712]

We have one Architect in our office that is colorblind. Try working with him. I don't often, so that is good.

 

The good old Architect. I work in a descent size firm staffed around 70. I usually get the information I need, but @ times it's difficult. I'm the only 3D Designer in the office. Since the demand from Project Managers are high for me, if I don't get the information that I need, I just tell the person that I'm working for, that they are not going to have the image by their deadline, and I'm going to move on to the next project. It works every time. I like the people that are always crying for your work, and when you finally get time to work on their project, they are never ready. I'm not an Architect, ( Wouldn't want to be one ) but when I'm lacking information from the Architect, I create the image to fulfill my personal satisfaction, and they end up usually loving it.

[Richard McCarthy]

Architects are sort of like glorified lawyers nowadays. Most time they will tell you what YOU CAN'T do than what you can do, it's just their habit after years of "training" and day to day grind. It's a reflex. This is because whenever they start designing, they have to think about the laws (and billions of them, sub-clauses,) subconciously, the budget, and all sorts of other thing like is it constructable, which product manufacturer actually make that thing, are they still in business....how does the joinery details work, is it weather-proof-able, what if something goes wrong can I get out of the mess. The few architect who are left still breathing and a few neurons to think about design, either end up as internationally well known architect or just gone coo-coo...

 

Ofcourse I am sure every architect start out their architecture school thinking they going to rock the world with their outrageous design, but because of the "accountablility" of law in this profession, most are designed with hands tied behind their back, and after decades and decades working in this profession, it just become reflex. Sadly.

 

As to answer your question, I think Ernest is right, if architect tell you to design, you should tell them yes, I can design, but that's going to charge you EXTRA. There is no way they should tell you to design something and not telling you what they expect, yet not paying you. If they are expecting just "office clutter" sort of object in the scene, throw those in! Things like planters, rubbish bins, sofas, up light, down light..etc Have a look at cgfcgfcg's few renderings, and some other ppl's lounge/airport rendering, you will get an better idea what to put in those scenes.

[mak_designs]

does that mean that architects are small, furry creatures? I mean, I know a few that fit that bill, but still.....

yes they are furry creatures, yes they are!

[reluma]

I work for a reasoanble size architects in London and although all the architects in the office moan that they don't get enough design work, when it comes down to me doing an image asking for feed-back and asking for advice on what I can stick into the model they just aren't interested.

 

it really became a common problem of visualizers when their architects/designers dont bother to think anymore it happens especially when designers are fed up with ideas and too much work load and always beating deadlines..so their creative minds dont extract juices anymore at any rate, that wont be the case, if you find a designer that is too keen especially in details that they are the type that even the finest details -- they will design it! and when you find that kind of boss, your life would be easy

[arcadie1]

I've worked for architects for almost 20 yrs and am all too familiar with this. My own education is architectural although I have never become registered.

I've experienced this problem often enoughto make a few observations, for what they're worth.

The typical architectural project is a large and complex beast with many different issues, each affecting the other. It requires an exceptional intellect to act decisively on each of the issues while maintaining an awareness of each of the affected concerns and maintain a sense of the whole and few have this ability, consequently the pattern they learn is to delay and defer decisions until a later time in the process. The process itself tends to become linear, sequential and protracted. What results is the familiar process of change upon change since the architects delayed their decisions until the project was highly developed. Lacking the comprehensive imagination or courage to see the whole and begin making design decisions early, it is common to wait until someone has drawn and/or rendered the project and then begin making these decisions as modifications to what has already been done. Then of course they expect the various people who work for them to miraculously redo all of their work for little or no time and expense. Ironically they are apt to be hired and promoted according to their ability to do these projects in such piecemeal fashion. If I were to recommend one attribute to be considered by those making such hiring and promotion decisions it would be the ability to deal with complexity and to make more than one decision at a time.

 

The most constructive suggestion I can make is to try to accept that the architects may not begin to design many aspects of the project until after you've done your work and to build into your contract the contingency for such architect-ordered changes. They will not want to accept the likelihood of this eventuality up front but you must find ways to turn the responsiubility for the consequences of their process back upon them where it belongs.