jtiscareno Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 This is a question that I have been fighting for a couple of months and now I think that it is the time to decide. I have a B. Arch from a Univeristy in Mexico (UACJ) and have been working as Intern and now as project Manager for 9 years but also I have been working and growing in the arch/viz side of the bussines more and more to the point that I would say that it is my best skill in the bussines. I would say that I spend 65% working as project manager for several projects and 35% in arch/viz, and I love doing the Viz much much more than the architect stuff excpet for the design of a project, that beats Viz any day for me (well only if I have total freedom of design or at least some space for exploration). I can continue like this in this town for many years to come, playing dual roles of architect and 3d artist but I want and will move to a bigger city probably this year, and I have noticed that in this job board and others related to architecture more and more positions are being open or needed with exactly the skill I have (gradute of architecture and 3d artist, max/viz, modeling, lighting, materials, photoshop, animation). By no means I am an expert like the 30 finalist in the competition but I would say that I am not that bad either plus I have major architecture experience under my belt. Is it me or those it seems that more and more companies, specially architecture firms are asking for 3d artists??? Like SOM, Gensler, HKS, etc. I am at the point that I can start taking my architectural license exames, have to spend aorund $2,300 dlls. to take them maybe like 1 year to study and take the 9 sections of the exam (one a month or so). Having an architectural license would increase my salary about 20% of what I am getting paid (a little above $40K a year now). Plus if we add my 3d skills that would go up some more if I move to a bigger city. My question to all is, what are the salaries and experiences of others (arch or not) in arch/viz firms and specially in the viz department in an architecural firm (like SOM, HKS, etc). I read in one of the job requested in the job forum that salary for a 3d artist at senior level was from $70K to $90K , that is double my salary right now!!! Please let me know your experiences, dont need to tell me your salaries I know that it is a sensative subject you can post just general numbers. Most than likelly I will move to a bigger city in the US (NY, Houston, Boston, LA, Dallas, options open), but I have seen that jobs are being open in the UK or Spain, and would love to relocate over there, specially Spain, I am from Mexico so language is not a problem. Thanks to all in advance, and will be waiting for the conversation to start... Edit becuase I forgot to add some exemples of my work. I modeled everything in Autocad, then render in Viz & Brazil, finally post-work in photoshop. What is consider a 3d "Senior" Artist??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph alexander Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 In New York right now there is a huge demand for people with your skillset and the salaries probably seem really high. However, to live reasonably well in new york expect to spend $1000 a month on an apt, and $10-$15 a meal, 50 cents a pound for laundry...Taxes are high too... so perhaps those high saleries aren't so high when your living expenses are too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Cassil Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 As far as viz artists salary goes, it's very tough to nail down. I think that since the position of a viz artist is a fairly new one, that what they get paid is not really known very well. But, it seems to be that a skilled 3D artist gets paid about the same as an architect with similar experience, sometimes even more. I'll go ahead and say it now that whenever this subject comes up in these forums and someone states what I just did, there are architects who get all up in arms that there is no way an artist who does nothing but make pretty pictures and has no liability should be paid on the same level as a licensed architect. I'm not going to even try and debate that point except to say that it can be very difficult to find good artists who are willing to work for arch firms. Most of the best work for themselves, and since they can make good money that way, firms have to pay good money to get them. The difference in pay really is going to come in the long term. Architects could potentially become principals in the firms they work for, where that would be very rare for an artist. Artists do always have the option of working for themselves or working for an arch viz firm, but those would be the only options for them as far as gaining ownership. I think your decision really comes down to what you like to do? It sounds like your real passion is in design. Large firms have design departments and the people that work in them rarely do anything but design. If you have completed your IDP requirements then you may be able to fill a role as a full time designer, using your 3D talents that way, and never have to touch CAD, specs, CA, or PM again. Whatever you decide, good luck to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmanahan Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 I am a 3D Artist not an Architect but I would suggest following the architect path for no other reason than having more options available to you in the future. An architect can do 3D viz work but a 3D artist can't do architecture. The more you have the more you have to offer. pmanahan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 WOW... I'm sorry, but this was a little depressing for me, but this brings up a conversation I have with a lot of ex-architects that I work with. For those of you that don't know me, I am an ex-achitect working in visual effects on feature films. I am not sure that the salary jump for working as a 3D artist in a large firm is exactly that big, but your specialty skill will be an advantage. What a large firm will give you (having worked in one for several years), is job stability and good benefits. You may stand to make more money too. What would be even better would be to work for an company that does just arch viz. They tend to keep you more challenged, you tend to work for many different architects, and you may even be able to make slightly more then with a large architecture firm. I dumped it all... as did several people I work with. Our salaries nearly doubled, despite the fact that we work in a place that tends to be on the lower end of the industry standard... so we have lots of room to grow from here. I know some people that are making between $120k and $160k/year. What we got is more cutting edge technology, and cool projects. What we gave up was job stability. You would think that I would say I gave up architecture, but let me tell you, doing only archviz, you get to practive much less design when you do if you were doing what I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jophus14 Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 This is a situation that i'm facing now. I want to be a 3D modeler in the architecture field, yet i feel that i must complete my studies for a bachelor degree in an architecture program. I would rather be able to do both the work of an architect and of a modeler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtiscareno Posted March 28, 2005 Author Share Posted March 28, 2005 Nice fast responses by all....Thanks!!! OK by order (respond here or PM, all greatly appreciated): Joseph, do you know what companies are agressively looking now? Ballpark of salaries? Brian, yes Arch Viz is very new but it seems that now it is being call upon in arch firms much much more than even 6 months ago, almost like it happend a while back on all the 3d animation. I have read that in the 90's many talented arch gradutes moved to the cg movie industry when it was coming up big. Now it seems that the wave is starting to get big in cg architecture ( I dont want to let is go). Love the cg! And dont worry about the debate of salaries of archs and viz, we architects are a special breed, we love to suffer and not get paid equally to other professions. And I love design but I have to be a realists to and I want a nice house and take nice vacations, the love of the art starts to fade when the years and family creeps on you... But also I really love arch viz and the prospect of becoming a manager of architecture is depressing to me, I would rather keep learning more an more in cg. Patrick thanks for the PM, well I am already an "architect", having the licence will only add a certain amount extra, I already have knowladge to manage a decent size project from conception to execution. But having the licence would be a very nice extra... Christopher, where you one of the talent drains of the 90's in architecture??? I have read that a lot like you migrated to visual effects when there was a draught in architecture in the 90's. It was stay in gradute school or move to something else. I would imagine that you are located in LA or NY? But isn't there a lot of competition to get work in CG FX nowadays? Is industry saturated or is it still open? What level does one need to at least get the door open ? What is a good way to start "selling" myself? Do typical CV and cover letter and email, I imagine that doing a demo reel of my work (design, images and animation) and sending by CD or email would be very good. Have read that job posts require CV and some exemples of work. I have always done my CV as an architect...exemples of 3d artist? THANKS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtiscareno Posted March 28, 2005 Author Share Posted March 28, 2005 This is a situation that i'm facing now. I want to be a 3D modeler in the architecture field, yet i feel that i must complete my studies for a bachelor degree in an architecture program. I would rather be able to do both the work of an architect and of a modeler. IS modeler the same as 3d artist??? Have seen job posts asking for 3d modelers senior and junior level, 3d artist, uber 3d guy, senior viz artist, etc. are all the same? Jophus how far are you to getting the BA? I would say at least finish your studies and get a degree, maybe gradute school?? Like http://www-viz.tamu.edu/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Cassil Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 I'm interested to know where you are seeing all these job posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtiscareno Posted March 28, 2005 Author Share Posted March 28, 2005 I'm interested to know where you are seeing all these job posts? Right here in our own site: http://www.cgarchitect.com/jobs/default.asp?offset=7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Christopher, where you one of the talent drains of the 90's in architecture??? I have read that a lot like you migrated to visual effects when there was a draught in architecture in the 90's. It was stay in gradute school or move to something else. I would imagine that you are located in LA or NY? But isn't there a lot of competition to get work in CG FX nowadays? Is industry saturated or is it still open? What level does one need to at least get the door open ? What is a good way to start "selling" myself? Do typical CV and cover letter and email, I imagine that doing a demo reel of my work (design, images and animation) and sending by CD or email would be very good. Have read that job posts require CV and some exemples of work. I have always done my CV as an architect...exemples of 3d artist? THANKS!!!! Well I will not get to much into it since it sounds like you want to stick with architecture which is great. No, I was an architect during the time that the industry was booming. I worked at Gensler between 1997 to 2002... Of course architecture did take a big hit about a year after the 2000 election, but that was not the reason I left. I left because I was sitting in a meeting and the meeting started going on about fire ratings on doors, and I decided that I really just didn't care. I enjoyed the CG part and was very good at it, and I was not being challenged enough. Is it hard to get into? Yes... very... mostly about luck and knowing people, and in my case... timing... But once you are in, it makes it a lot easier. I think the story of selling yourself to do exactly that... sell yourself. Meet as many people as possible. Go to industry events, go to architecture school lectures, etc... the more people see your face around the more people will know who you are. The internet is another great resource for people to get to know you, but it is nothing compared to face time, especially when you want to meet people that are more local. I know that this may be more true with what I do working on hollywood films, but I know how importnat it is for architecture as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph alexander Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Some of the most successful grads from my class did the whole film/architecture thing.. two are working for gehry partners right now.. I think it's kind of the cool new thing.... I see the west coast as being a little bit more exciting in that regards.... Back to the question--- There's a bunch of NYC offices listed on the job board... give them an e-mail.. I think it's going to be difficult for you because you're not living here and your employment is dependent upon you living here. Dbox io-media etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph alexander Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Also, just go on superpages and spend some money in long distance phone calls. It doesn't hurt to call 20 offices even if they're not hiring, they might no some one who is.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Well I will not get to much into it since it sounds like you want to stick with architecture which is great. No, I was an architect during the time that the industry was booming. I worked at Gensler between 1997 to 2002... Of course architecture did take a big hit about a year after the 2000 election, but that was not the reason I left. I left because I was sitting in a meeting and the meeting started going on about fire ratings on doors, and I decided that I really just didn't care. I enjoyed the CG part and was very good at it, and I was not being challenged enough. Is it hard to get into? Yes... very... mostly about luck and knowing people, and in my case... timing... But once you are in, it makes it a lot easier. I think the story of selling yourself to do exactly that... sell yourself. Meet as many people as possible. Go to industry events, go to architecture school lectures, etc... the more people see your face around the more people will know who you are. The internet is another great resource for people to get to know you, but it is nothing compared to face time, especially when you want to meet people that are more local. I know that this may be more true with what I do working on hollywood films, but I know how importnat it is for architecture as well. thanks chris, i was always kind of interested in what your story was, and how you got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawyer Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 "I left because I was sitting in a meeting and the meeting started going on about fire ratings on doors, and I decided that I really just didn't care" Fire ratings. Yes. Plumbing penetrations at fire walls. Hmmm. Just thinking about it I find myself drifting off thinking about something else. Anyway - the two things are aquiring your tool set and them making sure you can use them. If you are a good designer and an illustrator you could find work anywhere I would only suggest getting the architects license and then doing something else with it. I would not recommend signing drawings to almost anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 I am also one of those ex architects. I was really excited about architecture entering grad school (2000 at UCLA), but I quickly became jaded seeing all the political ass kissing and learning about the salaries and sacrifices people make to work for the big names (which is the only way I'd want it, all or nothing). So I started learning about web design and graphic design. The 3D stuff I kept up with purely as a design tool. Later, I would eventually start migrating towards 3D, esp. after the dot com fall out and less work for web designers. I love it. I don't have to worry about contributing to someone's crappy design, or clients nit picking or value engineering - I just make what I am given and try to make it pretty. It's simple, really. Takes time, but it's pretty straight forward. So it's less stress, which is great. I still love architecture and design, so I try to fit those in where I can. This lets me pass by all the bs jobs you'll get stuck doing at a firm and only do what you want. It makes it fun again ;-). The pay is substantially better, or all of us wouldn't have switched careers. Not to mention, it's a 40 hour work week, not a 70 hour week that you get paid for 40 (salaries in architecture are simply criminal). I am happy with it and look forward to the future as technology moves forward. Real time and motion tracking, for example, will bring arch viz to a new level. It's a growing field, and I think it's a good time to get in on it, as eventually more and more people will start to catch on! Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 The pay is substantially better, or all of us wouldn't have switched careers. Not to mention, it's a 40 hour work week, not a 70 hour week that you get paid for 40 (salaries in architecture are simply criminal). I have been on 60 to 80 hour weeks since January... and it will go on until April... so I guess nothing has changed for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Are you still doing Web Design as well? I'm a Flash Developer/Designer and I'm slowly migrating over into the film and 3D world. I've learned myself some good Max skills but I'm wandering if there isn't a good hybrid breed of Interactive/CG developer that might stumble into some architectual aspect of the field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkinet Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Hi! 1st time poster here... cant resist the urge to respond to your dilemma. I too am an architect with a passion for "digital". I think it all comes down to how much you love architecture. There are ups & downs, but just like waht they said, an architect can do CG, but CG artists cant be an architect. I do love doing 3D renderings, in fact am doing it on the sides. But as I look ahead, I cant stand just doing renderings for somebody else's design. I want to see my own design rendered & getting built. So whatever decision you make, there's always a price to pay. Good luck & God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 There are ups & downs, but just like waht they said, an architect can do CG, but CG artists cant be an architect. Very well said... I fact I would say that is a great point in life in general. It is for that reason that I did a non-architect undergraduate. I believe coming from an alternate background makes me more diverse. Same is true with architects in CG, it gives them a specialty "edge" that those trained in VFX do not have. So no matter what you do, carry your architecture credentials around with pride. Well... don't be obnoxious about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtiscareno Posted April 6, 2005 Author Share Posted April 6, 2005 Yeah, you all are right. I love architecture and love CG, maybbe the best resloution is stick to both of them and keep working at becoming better on both sides. Get the licence for architecture and keep improving in renderings and now specially in animation, seems that it is gowing alot in arch cg. Best way to impres in competitions and for clients. I have also noticed that more and more arch firms are developing their own Viz department, and not only as a supplemental thing to help architecture or sell but as a stand alone service, like viz, animations, graphics, web, etc. Like this for HKS: http://www.hksviz.com/ Do any out there know of any other firm that has a deparment like this, I have read that SOM and Gensler have them (not a webiste), any links, etc. Thanks to all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalatheart Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 even i am really confused about what field to pursue .. i just completed my bachelors in interior design ... though i have been working in max for last four years .. i dont really know where to start the things from .. but 1 thing is sure i m really passionate about 3d .. i want to do somethin in this only .. can anyone please tell me how can i get some freelancing work from net..cuz there are not much architect's in my town (i.e nagpur --india) who want this kind of job done.. or can i get some job abrod .. p.s sorry if i sound confused .. i really am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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