What's the next level AMD MP chip?

[Christopher Nichols]

Greg... since you seem to be in the loop about this, tell me:

 

What is the next level AMD MP chip? 2400 seems slow now compared to the Xeons at 2.8. They always followed closely, but no longer.

 

Do you know what speed, approximate time and possible price?

 

Chris

[Greg Hess]

Jan. 2600+ (Rumored to be 333 FSB, with possible new board revisions coming out).

 

2700+ and 2800+ may follow in feb-march.

 

I'd say that a dual 2400+ MP would still be screaming fast...it is a dual 2.0 ghz amd...thats a hella of a lot of power.

 

I myself am waiting for either the bartons, or the 2800+ MP's...so I can add another 600 meghaertz to each of my mp chips...oh baby that'll be sweet as hell.

[Christopher Nichols]

So will the current boards support the new chips (2600, -> 2800) via a bios upgrade? Or will we need to get a new board as well?

 

By the time they get to 2800 Xeons will probably be in the 3.5ghz+... I'm wondering where the price difference will come into play for duals...

 

Currently a 2.4 xeon is cheaper then a 2400 mp. By the time the 2800 mp's come out, the 2.8 xeons may be pretty cheap.

[Greg Hess]

will probably be in the 3.5ghz+... I'm wondering where the price difference will come into play for duals...

 

Xeon's don't have a stepping upgrade set for at least a few more months. Barton and 2600/2700+ MP's will be available before they reach 3.06.

 

Currently a 2.4 xeon is cheaper then a 2400 mp. By the time the 2800 mp's come out, the 2.8 xeons may be pretty cheap.

 

I hate to say it, but you couldn't be possibly more wrong. Xeon's are currently the most expensive systems to build. Lets do a quick price comparison, on just the three main components. I'll look at a Dual 2400+ MP, Vs a Dual 2.4B Xeon, both 603 and 604 Socket.

 

First AMD....

 

2x 2400+ MP (Around 490 USD Retail)

A7M-266D (204 USD Retail)

2x 512 PC2100 Registered ECC (460..Mushkin.com)

Total: 1154

 

Alright now the Socket 604 Xeons. (533 FSB)

 

2x 2.4B Xeons (550 USD Retail)

Supermicro SUPER X5DA8 (512 USD Retail)

2x 512 PC2100 Registered ECC (460.. Mushkin.com)

Total: 1522

 

Socket 603 Xeons. (Obsolete)

 

2x 2.4 Xeons (490 USD Newegg sale)

Supermicro P4DCE+ (Around 400 USD)

2x 512 PC800 RAMBUS (636 mushkin.com)

Total: 1536

 

As you can see, both xeon systems (according to newegg and mushkin.com) are more expensive then a similarily equipped Dual AMD system.

 

Prices as of 11:49 AM 1/1/03.

 

The 2400+ MP's will also outperform a dual 2.4 Xeon (dunno about the 2.4B).

 

Remember that its not the actual cpu's that make xeon's expensive...its that Intel marks all the boards as "server" and charges a hefty premium.

 

And those boards btw are pretty barebones...you should see the true server board prices...yee gawd.

[Dave Buchhofer]

I'm curious greg, how many sites do you check daily to get all this information. (And thanks for sharing~!)

[Christopher Nichols]

Holy crap. S@!#$t. Sorry Christopher, I seem to have actually edited out your post, instead of hitting the reply button. I apologize wholeheartedly. I tried to restore it using the backbuffer, but it seems I was too late .

 

Please accept my apologies for editing this post.

 

[ January 02, 2003, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Greg Hess ]

[Greg Hess]

The prices I quoted were from www.newegg.com, and were realtively newer models of the boards. If you want to go older...then you sacrifice the speed below what a 2400+ MP will give you.

 

Remember only the 2.4B Xeon's (Socket 604) DC-DDR match the MP's in performance, the 2.4 (Remember they max at 2.4, 603's) do not allow for a performance advantage over amd's solution.

 

You will be limited by mainly server works, or intel based dual xeon chips, of which the primary manufacturers are tyan and supermicro.

 

I used newegg, because it has one of the highest resellerratings on (http://www.resellerratings.com) and I've had extensive experience with them (over 20k in hardware/software), and am whole heartedly behind recommending them for all purchases.

 

Now if you enter...

SUPER X5DA8

 

Into pricewatch.com...BE CAREFUL. This price is for the CASE. Not the mainboard.

 

You have to read pricewatch.com carefully, the whole first page is either...cases, cpu's, or single cpu mainboards.

 

The first Dual Xeon motherboard (with that typed into pricewatch.com is $600.00 from 8aNet Corporation)

 

Since 8aNet isn't even listen on resellerratings.com, I wouldn't even think of ordering from them.

 

So in quick summary. Yes they are that expensive (read pricewatch carefully). And to the other question 20-40 sites a day, or around 30 pages of tech info.

 

Hope that helps. I have nothing against xeon's, their just more expensive.

[Christopher Nichols]

I can't believe you changed my post ... Just kidding ... it is fine...

 

For those interested in what point I was trying to make, I was only stating that the price of boards was the cause of the biggest price jump. I also stated that the problem was that only supermicro and tyan make Dual Xeon boards... either of them are over priced boards. Supermicro tends to be 2 to 3 times more then anyone else... that is what you get for "made in the USA." So if others (asus, etc), make dual xeon boards, the price would probably go down and be very competative.

 

Anyway, your price comparison as you explained is valid. Newegg is very reliable. for all the reasons your explained.

 

Since your post, I have looked into it more, since I was curious. Iwill also makes several Dual Xeon workstation (as opposed to Server) boards. They also start at $400. SO this leads me to believe that the cost is in the chipset which is the reason for the big price jump. Something to keep track of.

 

Next thing to monitor is when dual AMD MP's finally go to 8x AGP... it seems that the dual xeon boars have already made that jump... again this may cause the price jump.

[Greg Hess]

Next thing to monitor is when dual AMD MP's finally go to 8x AGP... it seems that the dual xeon boars have already made that jump... again this may cause the price jump.

 

Sorry again about the post edit. The edit button is in the same spot the reply button is in on cgtalk.com. Grr.

 

Yes, its the motherboard (and/or rambus) that makes the xeon the more expensive solution. Its not much more, but that 300-500 USD difference can mean the difference between a gig of ram, and two gigs of ram, so its still substaintal.

 

Unfortuantly the only planned revision of the MP chipset is the addition of "possible" 333 FSB support sometime in Jan-Feb. As far as I'm aware, AMD is not planning to add AGP 8X support, or DC-DDR support to the Dual AMD platform. AMD wants to prevent the MP platform from competing against Clawhammer and Opteron...(Just like Intel cripples the P4 to prevent it from competing against xeon).

 

According to AMD's roadmap, XP/MP will turn into the budget line, with clawhammer taking up the mid range, and opteron on the high end...sometime in Q2 2003.

[Christopher Nichols]

Wow, Greg... you ARE full of info, I guess that is why I asked you the question in the first place. So I wonder when we will expect to see clamhammer boards... and what will their price be... this is what I HATE about buying computers, there is always something else on the horizon.

 

[ January 03, 2003, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Christopher Nichols ]

[Greg Hess]

Ya it sucks...thats why its always better to buy second or third tier, instead of whatever the fastest chips are available. That way when the 50% price cut hits, it doesn't hurt as much as it could have had.

 

End of Q1 2003, Q2 2003 we should see some sort of AMD 64 bit presence on the market.