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Thread: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

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    Veteran Member Dave Buckley's Avatar
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    Default Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    I feel like I've asked this question before, however, I'm getting quite noticeable colour shifts between programs.

    I started to make a texture in Photoshop (my profile is normally Adobe RGB).

    The problem with this is that it never looks the same in 3DS Max's bitmap viewer in the Material Editor. If I change the profile of the texture in Photoshop to sRGB, it looks much closer, but again it's still slightly different (see attachment).

    Then the problem occurs again when I render, it looks different in the VFB, although i do expect this to be a little bit different due to lights, reflections and colour bleeding.

    The final twist is then opening the saved image in Photoshop, it differs again.

    I'm currently playing around with ICC Profiles in the VFB to see if this helps. I was hoping that if I load the Adobe RGB profile from PS into the VFB, then what I see in the VFB would be what I see when I load the render into PS with the same Adobe RGB profile assigned. But again it seems to be different.

    I'd love to know if anyone has a seamless workflow where all colours are consistent. Otherwise I don't see the point in using Adobe RGB as I'm constantly looking at an sRGB reference the whole time i'm in Max.

    Or I've massively misunderstood something. I plan on reading Jeff's Colour Management Chapter again tonight, but if anyone can clear anything up in the meantime that would be great.

    For what it's worth, I'm using a HP Z24X monitor that is currently using the factory profile (it's new - I haven't calibrated it yet).

    Cheers

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    Veteran Member Dave Buckley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    Sorry I forgot to add the screengrab, it's also worth noting that the texture in PS (Adobe RGB) has more colour than when viewed in Max's Image viewer. However, if then load the Adboe RGB profile into the VFB even more colour is sapped out of the VFB. I'd expect the extra colour to reappear when I apply the profile to the VFB.

    Anyway here's the screengrab. The colour difference shown here is with sRGB profile on the image in PS, the colour difference is even greater with Adobe RGB.

    Colour Differences.jpg

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    Founder Jeff Mottle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    Hey Dave,

    The reason you're seeing the shift is that 3ds Max on its own is not color managed, while Photoshop is. I spoke with Vlado when I was in Bulgaria before 3.0 came out and spoke to him about color management and thankfully he adopted support for LUT, ICC and OpenColor IO. One of the only rendering apps to do this.

    The part you are missing is the VRayICC Utility node (http://docs.chaosgroup.com/display/V...RayICCOverview) which will color manage the textures as well. So you need this and the VFB.

    Your display has 99% of AdobeRGB, so it should be similar to AdobeRGB in its gamut, however it's not identical. Also without having your display profiled and calibrated, you can't use any of the ICC features in V-Ray as all of them are dependant on a display ICC being loaded into the OS. It's likely using some system monitor default which will really screw things up, so you have to buy a color monki or an Xrite Display colorimeter first. Don't buy the Spyder stuff. It's crap.

    I've not had a chance to really test out the new 3.0 features, so curious to see how it goes on your end.

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    Veteran Member Dave Buckley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    Awesome cheers Jeff, I'm calibrating with the Xrite i1 Display Pro tomorrow so will report back then, cheers for the input. Had a feeling it would be down to the monitor too. At the minute it's using the native profile. Although it doesn't give me options for sRGB and Adobe RGB profile.

    However, I'm thinking a custom profile would be better.

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    Veteran Member Dave Buckley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    Yeh I definately need to try this after calibrating.

    I've just added that node into the diffuse map and the colour difference now is huge. It makes the texture much darker/saturated.

    So in the screenshot now, what you're seeing is.

    Photoshop - Original Texture (Adobe RGB)
    Material Editor - Texture in VRay ICC Node (Adobe RGB (from PS) loaded
    VFB (in the background) - Adobe RGB (from PS) loaded

    To get the Adobe RGB profile, I simply saved it out of Photoshop via the Colour Settings dialogue box.

    Colour_Differences_2.jpg

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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    Absolutely, default manufacture profiles for displays are useless as they are not even close to accurate. Displays vary far too much between units (even between two identical displays that came off the line side by side). Also, because your textures were likely created in in an sRGB environment, you will need to assign sRGB to the texture. If you correct them yourself in Photoshop while using an AdobeRGB working space, and save if out with an AdobeRGB profile embedded, you would then use the AdobeRB profile in the ICC node.

    Worth noting is that if you opt to work in AdobeRGB as your working space, and you use a lot of off the shelf textures or textures that were created before wide gamut displays, they are all going to become more saturated when you work with them and depending on the color, shift as well. You either have to correct this with a color adjustment node in 3ds Max or in Photoshop before you use them.

    The other option is to work in an old school sRGB environemnt for everything. To do this, you could switch your display to it's sRGB mode from the on screen menu. This will clamp the display colors to an uncalibrated sRGB gamut. Then you would profile and calibrate the display. in 3ds Max and Photoshop you would use the sRGB everywhere (assuming the textures were created in sRGB). This would be the method to work as you likely did 5+ years ago, however completely negates the ability of your display to output a much richer gamut of color.

    Other things to consider by going back to an sRGB workflow is that your clients have all likely moved to wide gamut displays (they don't make any other kind now), so if they view your sRGB image on their wide gamut display it's going to be very saturated. They also are unlikely to have sRGB presents on their display.

    There are quite a few more variables in play, but this should get you headed in the right direction for now I hope.

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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Buckley View Post
    Yeh I definately need to try this after calibrating.

    I've just added that node into the diffuse map and the colour difference now is huge. It makes the texture much darker/saturated.
    That seems like it could potentially be a gamma issue, but not sure. Without calibrating your display (2.2) hard to rule that out. I would be curious to see your Photoshop color management settings and also the dialog box when you saved the texture out.

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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    Yep, as I thought. I tend to load textures into PS, convert to Adobe RGB, adjust colours to suit and save as Adobe RGB, so really all I'm missing is the calibration of the monitor. I'll run some further tests tomorrow once calibrated and post the results.

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    Founder Jeff Mottle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    I hope you have not been saving textures into AdobeRGB for long without a calibrated display otherwise, you now have a bunch of junk textures you are going to have to redo all over again.

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    Veteran Member Dave Buckley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colour differences between different programs. Help needed.

    Here are those dialogue boxes.
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