Trees....!

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

here is a test render for a scene i have been working on in my spare time...

 

onyx trees

 

onyx can be resonably complex to control at times, i am trying to get the feel for it, rather than using the handful of semi decent preset trees that they have.

 

.

[kdavenport]

I'm not sure what version of 3dsmax you're using, but you might want to explore using 3dsmax 8's Hair and Fur system to render plants. The system allows you to randomize the size and certain parameters (it's no xfrog or onyx) and it will render faster than adding a billion trees as it renders the fur as an effects pass. Plus there's some pretty cool tools, primarily the styling tools, that you could use to get great effects.

 

Best of all...it's already built into max. Of course, you'll still need a couple of models to instance (for trees), but it can be quite a powerful tool.

[Ernest Burden III]

I just can't stop playing with things...gets me into trouble.

 

Me, too. Thanks fellows. Those examples ended up more complex than what I was thinking about. Where I'm coming from, aside from thinking I should buy Onyx, is how to make a very simple, low-poly tree that is a step above an Xtree. I have some ideas and am trying things out. The twisting of branches is a hard part for lowpoly, so I was wondering how a 3D model would look in front/side elevation and plan. I'm used to doing trees by just drawing whatever branch shapes are needed, like this:

 

 

You get very involved in branches and leaves. But from a distance, you have a better result from simplified, almost iconic shapes that say 'tree' without the distraction of drawing every leaf:

 

 

 

Well, I'm going out this afternoon for a walk with the kids and photograph a few trees in winter mode and see what that tealls me.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

Me, too. Thanks fellows. Those examples ended up more complex than what I was thinking about. Where I'm coming from, aside from thinking I should buy Onyx, is how to make a very simple, low-poly tree that is a step above an Xtree. I have some ideas and am trying things out. The twisting of branches is a hard part for lowpoly, so I was wondering how a 3D model would look in front/side elevation and plan.

 

my exmaple was overly complex in branches, but that was the mood i was in.

 

with Onyx, you can export at different levels of detail, and specify how many faces make up the resolution of the curves and twists on the branches. also, you can spec how curved and twisted the branches become, which will greatly effect resolution.

 

i broke down the tree i was working with in different detail export levels. i am not sure what 'bg' stands for...

 

trunk level...

bg level...

branch 1 level...

branch 2 level...

branch 3 level...

twig level...

stem level...

leaf level...

 

i am guessing you might be working on that branch 1 or 2 level. the levels of detail can be mixed and matched at any level, like layers. so you can export every layer from branch 2 down, and the leaves.

 

i am still learning Onyx, but the only complaint i really have is i am not happy with the way the bg branches meet the base of the trunk. it is kind of clunky. the branches just kind of die into the trunk.

 

bg meeting tree...

 

we are using Onyx 6.0, which i think has a release date of 2003, i don't know what the current version is, or if anything has changed.

 

i also quickly mocked up one of your trees in the foreground in the first image of the last post. this was a quick mock-up, so it is far from perfect, it was layers b3 down.

 

a quick eb3 tree...

 

actually, i think winter trees are beautiful, so i hope you enjoyed your walk today. i was in the habbit of taking pictures of winter trees last year, but i never made it out this year, or at least have not made it out yet. here are a few photos for reference.

 

winter tree photos... (10 meg zip file)

 

...and finally, here is an update to the image i was working on earlier. i think i lost some of the effect that i had early, but gained some other things. the trees look different because i accidentally exported them at different detail levels.

 

winter scene update...

 

...but like i said, i love leafless trees.

 

anyway, max has an a onyx plug-in, so i can make a tree, test it, and keep updating it within my max scene. i don't know if Cinema4d has this.

[Ernest Burden III]

actually, i think winter trees are beautiful, so i hope you enjoyed your walk today.

 

Thanks for all that material. How much do I owe you?

 

The walk was great, a sloping field overlooking the Hudson River. Beautiful day, my sons trying to sled on what thin snow remains. Trees are marvelously complex beasts. This is bad since you will never get it right, but good because no-one will be able to tell if you didn't.

 

There's one tree which stands alone (why I wanted to shoot that one) that is a bleached London Plane that twists as it goes up, many rotations. I'll post it when I get the shots off the camera.

[gfa2]

anyway, max has an a onyx plug-in, so i can make a tree, test it, and keep updating it within my max scene.

 

Travis, do run into any memory problems with the combination of Onyx/Vray/max? Especially large renderings (3000+ px wide) and a ton of trees. I've experiemented with vray proxy on the Onyx trees, but I'm still having problems.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

Travis, do run into any memory problems with the combination of Onyx/Vray/max? Especially large renderings (3000+ px wide) and a ton of trees. I've experiemented with vray proxy on the Onyx trees, but I'm still having problems.

 

i typically don't render that high, but i will try sending one this afternoon. can it be a straight max render, or does it need to use vray proxy?

[gfa2]

can it be a straight max render, or does it need to use vray proxy?

 

If you can get it to work either way I'd love to hear about it. Maybe try placing a tree into a scene with a building and then instance the tree 100 times or so. If you can get that to render at 3000 or 4000 pixels wide with GI using vray...I'd be impressed.

 

thanks for the experiment.

[gfa2]

With some tips from Christopher Nichols and Olaf Lubanskiand I think I got it to work. This test was only at 640 x 480 but it did have over 3200 onyx trees in it. I don't think the rendering time isn't too bad for what's going on there. One direct light with vray shadows and GI. Tonight I will do a large render test with my renderfarm.

[Allen]

i broke down the tree i was working with in different detail export levels. i am not sure what 'bg' stands for...

 

It stands for "bough" or the first level of branches from the Trunk. I've had Onyx for a couple of years now. Very good program.

[Spacelord]

The only problem I find with Onyx is it doens't come with any textures.

Well theres a couple of leaves but no bark.

Just means I have to go outside and take pictures

[gdrakakis]

hi everyone.

is anyone interested for Maxon's exteriors tree collection?

i know it's quite old , but there is a plugin that can simulates seasons, (winter, spring, etc) and works fine with v9.5!!

plus, you can choose hi or low quality, textures are images with alpha channel, which means that shadows are realistic.

 

credits to Maxon for the image below (animated gif format).

 

 

 

http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/exteriors/c4d_exteriors_e.html

[Ernest Burden III]

hi everyone.

is anyone interested for Maxon's exteriors tree collection?

 

Old? I never saw that before. I can't even find where its listed opn the Maxon website. It looks interesting...

[gdrakakis]

yeap!! renders are pretty fast, looks and feels very realistic, especially the shadows, not to mention that you get ALL the seasons you want!!!

[wda]

Old? I never saw that before. I can't even find where its listed opn the Maxon website. It looks interesting...

 

http://www.maxonshop.com/cgi-bin/us/gp?pg=products/resources.3dplants

[DennisB]

i dunno why you guys want 3d trees when 2d are usually much more realistic, specially for stills, plus they render 100000 times faster.

 

Hard to dismiss the animation argument, especially where elevations change while tracking. It's best shown in palms, a type of tree 3D handles very well.

 

I met the developer of Onyx back in '95. Nice woman, math prof at Princeton as I recall. Even then they were doing amazing fluid animations of coconut palms swaying in a tropical breeze. Needed a Cray to render them, but that's largely changed now.

 

All that said, you make a good case for 2D. All that knob twisting and slider pushing to create a 3D tree seems somehow counter intuitive to the artist in me.

[DennisB]

So basicly: who was the bastard that designed/discovered trees?

damn! Couldn't he just make a simpler design, like a chicken?

I'm an agnostic. So, I'll pass on the obvious answer.

 

Architects should love trees for the beauty of their structural design. I'm not just referring to trunks and leaves. It's an architectural thing. It's not just about the shape of a leaf, but the way the tree expresses its leaves.

 

The layers of organizational synchronization involving leaves demonstrates a structural complexity most people never notice. That individuation, even within a species, is what makes trees such a fascinating visual or artistic problem.

 

Next time you make a trip to an art museum, look at the trees in paintings. You'll soon see just how problematic they were for even the biggest names in art history. They're usually reductive or highly stylized, and for obvious reasons.

[Ernest Burden III]

Next time you make a trip to an art museum, look at the trees in paintings.

 

I've made that very trip, several times in the last year.

 

Trees are an example of complexity arising out of a simple set of rules, with some environmental variables mixed in. Painting trees is almost the opposite. You take all that complexity and simplify it, make it exist as a whole by adding your own interpretation to it. 3D tress are often soul-less, they don't 'reduce' well with distance.

 

I don't have answers yet, but trees are my current 3D artistic obsession.

[DennisB]

Painting trees is almost the opposite. You take all that complexity and simplify it, make it exist as a whole by adding your own interpretation to it.

That has been the tradition, although the practical limitations that likely gave rise to simplification have changed, at least in terms of digital painting.

 

Traditional media will likely always face the same problem. Still, it's impressive to see how effective the simplification solutions can be in skilled hands.

[Ernest Burden III]

Dennis--have I asked you before--where in northern CA are you?

[chx]

trees... avc2006... 2k+ rendering, I can already see a "maxhas encountered a memory problem and will now close".... pray...

[DennisB]

Chico, founded by tree lover and likely father of California agriculture John Bidwell (hardly mentions his contributions to agriculture, etc. For example, I think the Casaba Melon was his creation.)

 

Interesting guy, although his botanical practices would not be seen as benevolent by today's scientific standards. Then again, he was also the first to chronicle the displacement effects of foreign grasses on Sacremento Valley habitat though introduction of domestic livestock.

 

He imported over 100,000 trees and set-up an experimental forestry station in the 19th century. When the state took over, he gave away the nursery trees to people in the city, which meant trees from all over the world found their way onto city streets and parks. The city has kept up the tradition.