ADVICE: stop saying [engine brand] rendering

[Ernest Burden III]

Whos work is it, anyway?

 

So many of you post in Finished Work or WIP with something like "[render engine] Retail Interior" as the subject. Its your work, not Mental Ray's.

 

Unless there is something specific about the engine that is important just mention it in your post. This is not important, really. But I see too much reliance on whatever the engine gods provide, rather than the artist making the work their own. Take ownership of the work instead of saying you are borrowing it from vRay, MR, MWR etc. Its nothing more than psychology but is a way to set yourself to do your best work.

[Brian Cassil]

I totally agree Ernest. In fact I would suggest to not even mention it in the post. If someone wants to know, they will ask.

[Jeff Mottle]

I totally agree Ernest. In fact I would suggest to not even mention it in the post. If someone wants to know, they will ask.

 

And in every post someone will ask. But that is what the rendering companies are training everyone to think. The rendering engine makes the rendering, not so much the person. And that is what make sales, so people start thinking that. It's a vicious circle.

[STRAT]

it's funny, i get sooooo many peeps telling me i have no indication on my own website (link in my sig kids! ) about what software i use.

 

personally it doesnt matter to me, and my clients certainly couldn't give a monkeys either way.

 

my work is mine, not my render engine's.

[jtiscareno]

100% agree with you guys, it is almost as if the "traditional render artist" would have post or told the client what type of paper or color pencil or brush they used in order to get their renderings. It was all about THEIR work, THEIR talent.

 

I had a discussion once with a good fellow architect friend that he was saying that the old timeres were artist and that we where just more like "techies" just being as good as the software could be, and I told him that he was very wrong, that we where still struggeling and working to master the same as any artist in any time, light and color! that the computer and software was just another tool but that the artist is the one that made it possible to make it great, average or bad.

 

Now if some one asks about the program it should be to ask settings or something of the same sort in order to learn from the masters but in no way they should think that by just using what the master use it means that they will be good. Heck I have seen amazing work just using photoshop, no cad, no max, no render engine.... IT IS THE INDIVIDUAL THE FOUNTAINHEAD OF IDEAS!!!

[AJLynn]

You're right, of course, but I think it's still worth mentioning (in the text) on WIP posts what software was used - because often the comments on a WIP are technical, relating to lighting, shaders, etc., and it's hard to give tech advice without knowing what the tech is.

[Brian Cassil]

I had a discussion once with a good fellow architect friend that he was saying that the old timeres were artist and that we where just more like "techies" just being as good as the software could be

 

I'm sure we have all had many similar encontours. Once, after recieving some praise from the client for the work I had done on a project, the architect for the project asked if I ever felt guilty for accepting praise when it was really the computer that did all the work. I had a hard time keeping my cool with that one because he kept insisting it was so, even though he himself had never rendered anything on a computer in his life.

[DennisHolland]

the architect for the project asked if I ever felt guilty for accepting praise when it was really the computer that did all the work.

Ooff, that must have caused some ugly scars, Brian!

 

I think we all have that same frustration with those damn things. "Oh boy, the technique now a days, it's sooo cool what you can do with a computer"...

 

The worst part is, if you try to explain you're more like a painter using a brush, color and canvas... then you're an arrogant little fellow

 

hhmmm....

Dennis

[Paul Griger]

...the architect for the project asked if I ever felt guilty for accepting praise when it was really the computer that did all the work.

..."there goes my belief that there's no such thing as a dumb question"

[MrCAD]

I agree with ernest on this...I think its the artist's impression on each render and not the rendering engine. Each artist would look at the final result in a different way and when we go "wow..realistic" its the artist who should get the credit on how he used the engine..cause not many users using the same renderer could have achieve that output. Its more like an manual artist drawing or painting....all of them wanna produce the best output with the same tools but not many can become picasso.

 

Meher

http://www.mr-cad.com

http://www.drapefx.com

[IHAB]

..."there goes my belief that there's no such thing as a dumb question"

 

 

 

 

:D

[exception]

Oh, oops, my current post has the software in its heading, the only reason why i did it was because there were so many of them, i thought i missed a requirement update or something, and it was wanted.

I totally agree, it makes no difference.

[quizzy]

Ooff, that must have caused some ugly scars, Brian!

I think we all have that same frustration with those damn things. "Oh boy, the technique now a days, it's sooo cool what you can do with a computer"...

The worst part is, if you try to explain you're more like a painter using a brush, color and canvas... then you're an arrogant little fellow

hhmmm....

Dennis

 

But doesn't every render engine come with the "Make awesome image"-button ??

[Chad Warner]

But doesn't every render engine come with the "Make awesome image"-button ??

 

 

It's right next to the "render fast" button...

[IC]

I think this has been a long time coming.

For one thing, you can't keep track of threads when they're all called 'Vray interior'.

 

On the other hand though, I do get PMs asking what my VRay Light settings were on an image I've posted and I've never used VRay in my life.

[STRAT]

Iain, you mean you aint got a 'look like Vray' button in LW?

[FlytE]

Sorry to disagree with you guys but I have to be honest... it irritates the hell out of me when I look at a cgarchitect gallery profile and it says

 

software: various

 

I mean geez what is that supposed to mean?! Although i enjoy soaking up tips and info about other software, if im a vray user Im particularly interested in see other images done in vray so I can see what I should be aspiring to, and what can be achieved with the software I use. I honestly couldnt give a monkeys about what people think of the the fact that its vray im using. I know fine and well the images im looking at are created with some kind of 3D software so there seems little reason to withhold that kind of information.

 

Im not gonna break the badge off my merc because i dont want people to know my car was made by mercedes.

[IHAB]

this also makes sense Andy, youre right

[AJLynn]

Sorry to disagree with you guys but I have to be honest... it irritates the hell out of me when I look at a cgarchitect gallery profile and it says

 

software: various

 

LOL, but what if it's true? EG, this image (warning large file) was done it Autocad, Rhino, Max+Vray and C4D, but when I had to explain it to people I did it with a diagram of Rutherford's atomic nucleus experiment.

 

if im a vray user Im particularly interested in see other images done in vray so I can see what I should be aspiring to, and what can be achieved with the software I use.

 

But that's part of the problem. These days software's capabilities are so similar that they're all pretty much able to do the same things, so you can't look at a mental ray or even Maxwell render and say "that's great, but I can't do it cause I use Vray" or a Vray render and say "damn I'm glad I've got that software instead of being stuck with mental ray" etc. I really do think any image you see here can be done in Vray, or mental ray, or finalRender (but not Maxwell).

 

(Edit - Image link fixed)

[exception]

Well, you can pretty much achieve anything with any piece of software...

so that kite doesn't really fly...

[FlytE]

AJ I only see that as a testament to your abilities that you can use that amount of software etc. I would rather see a quick list of software than ":various" which I just see as a testament to a lack of motivation to type.

 

I love learning stuff... it makes me wish I could stop time so that i can learn every bit of software ever invented lol. But the reality is that of course this is not possible, and while it may be possible to skip between software and rendering engines, its not exactly what you would call productive when in a working environment and under tight deadlines. I want to get better with vray, work harder, faster, and produce better images.... surely logic dictates I should be using other vray images as precedence for my vray learning curve?

 

I do however recognise the argument that most programs can produce the same results in enough time.... I just think that generally this applys to advanced users who are experienced/skilled enough to recognise how to apply their programs features to correctly replicate a result from another engine. Until I reach that level I have (and will continue to have) no problem in telling people I used vray, either in the title or content of my posts.

[IC]

I do however recognise the argument that most programs can produce the same results in enough time.... I just think that generally this applys to advanced users who are experienced/skilled enough to recognise how to apply their programs features to correctly replicate a result from another engine. Until I reach that level I have (and will continue to have) no problem in telling people I used vray, either in the title or content of my posts.

 

I think you might be missing the point. When a thread has MR (or whatever) in the title, you would naturally assume that MR has some relevance to the thread. But it very rarely, if ever, has.

It's just confusing.

There are software specific forums for sharing techniques, settings etc.

The galleries, however, are for c&c.

[Ernest Burden III]

I think you might be missing the point. When a thread has MR (or whatever) in the title, you would naturally assume that MR has some relevance to the thread. But it very rarely, if ever, has.

 

I made this picture with vRay vs. vRay interior

 

I'm really just talking about the psychology of it. The artist makes the picture using various software and people should take ownership of thier work, rather than just say 'MR did it'. Of course in a technical forum we will want to discuss issues of brand-specific software, but I would rather focus my comments on making the rendering better as an illustration. Use your tools as you see fit to make the art. But its your art. You made it.

 

My recent post of the building in Brooklyn was modeled (my parts) in Datacad and C4D, one freelancer modeled most of the main building in Rhino, another made the surroundings in Max, the cars are made with SketchUp (bought from FormFonts), the people were scanned drawings, rendered in C4D's AR2 (should have been FinalRender except for a bug that was too much to work around at the last minute) yet for all that the one program that made the pictures look like I did them, the 'money app' is Photoshop.

[FlytE]

I understand better where you are coming from with this. However you might argue that saying "vray office interior" is just a shortened way to say "I created an office interior using vray" ...

 

Another possible psychology behind this might be that people feel proud that they have managed to create what they felt was a difficult scene in their chosen renderer and want others to know that they managed this, so they put the name in the title - who knows. On that note though (and this is just a personal gripe) it sometimes bothers me a little when people seem to place alot of emphasis on rendertimes in their posts. Ok yeah its useful to be able to render the same scene in 5 mintues as opposed to 50 but seeing as it bears little or no relevance to a final finished image. And seeing as the author probably wont disclose their much of their optimization techniques, it seems a little 'showey-offy' to boast about rendertimes.

 

I always imagine people like that were the kid in their class who chewed their sweets loudly so everyone could hear, but refused to offer any out...

 

anyway im getting off track now so i will leave it at that

[vizwhiz]

are we allowed to mention whether

or not we used a @#$*$) computer?

 

i guess i better go (edit) my self

 

i am (still) learning mental ray

so when i see a mental ray Tag Thread

 

i read THAT THREAD.

 

****

 

my definition of Art, is:

 

"Art is That which is un-necessary but necessary only To That Artist."

 

so i already know That if i make a rendered Image

That it is my own, i made it, i dont own it (damn clients)

 

but i want to KNOW how Others make great mental ray Images

Techniques and all, why you should do what or what NOT to do

 

Thanks, my 0.002 neuros

 

Randy