Suggested Onyx Improvements

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

I have been using Onyx Tree for several years. One of the things that bothers me is that this software has not further developed over the years. I think the only noticeable thing is the addition of the flower version. There are several features that I think would make this software more powerful, and more user friendly. I think I am going to send an email to the developers, and point them towards this thread. I encourage anyone else who is a user of Onyx to post their suggestions. I want to see this software thrive and develop.

 

 

Easy implementations ( I think )

 

- Ability to opt for a key-in of all parameters, sometimes the slider is just not accurate enough.

 

-Ability to somewhat automate the age a tree by up scaling all the parameters at once. Perhaps the upscale can have varying user adjustable degrees on how much it effects each area.

 

-Maybe a scale human that can be turned on for reference on how tall a tree is. Even though it has metric units, visual reference is often better in my opinion.

 

-Imperial as well as metric units.

- Undo parameters, or temporary save of tree state. Sometimes I have a copy I am almost happy with, but not quite. I need to save the tree at this point, before I start modifying, because I might mess up everything, and need to revert to the saved version.

 

- User friendly system at selecting color, at least I struggle with the one that it has.

 

 

Complex implementations

 

-The ability to click on a branch in the window, and reshape it by pushing and pulling with my mouse. This would give me a lot more control when only one branch on the tree is troublesome, and everything else is perfect.

 

- More leaf types, of perhaps let the user load a leaf type that they have created by tracing over a leaf in 2d.

 

-Refinement of the way a branch branches off. To me it off looks clunky, and 3d. Often need a little love in PhotoShop to clean it up.

[Ernest Burden III]

No nag screen. Every damned time I use Onyx, which isn't all that often, I have to get hit over the head about their EULA. Stop, already.

 

I have to look more closely at how the trunks and branches are UV'ed, but I bet it isn't quite what I want. If the mapping of the trunks and such is just so, you can create a single tree and use RGB/vector noise in world space to make instanced copies uniquely variable.

 

Otherwise, I think the suggestions from CHG are spot-on.

 

Oh--how about making sure we have the most common trees, like a London Plane Tree. How about that?

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

No nag screen. Every damned time I use Onyx, which isn't all that often, I have to get hit over the head about their EULA. Stop, already.

 

- develop TreeStorm plug-in for Cinema, and other relevant applications besides 3dsMax.

[Ernest Burden III]

- develop TreeStorm plug-in for Cinema, and other relevant applications besides 3dsMax.

 

While there isn't a plugin version, Onyx outputs a .c4d file, so that's fine. I suppose a plugin might allow you to keep trees variable even after placement in a file, so that would be a nice treat. But not if it came with a massive RAM overhead or introduced stability problems, which some plugs do.

 

Travis--are you planning to gather these ideas up and submit them to the people who make Onyx?

[neko]

i don't have anything significant to add, but i applaud your efforts.

 

it is a great program, but needs some occasional upgrades to stay current

[BrianKitts]

How about an update to the treestorm plugin....

 

If a tree is placed in the scene and then you go and edit it's original parameter file, Treestorm should recognize this and ask if you want to update the scene, making it so that the file reference is more of a link than just an import.

 

Currently if you want to update a tree, you have to select it, go into the modify panel re-point it at it's own file, and then reset your UV and material settings for that tree, which is a pain.

 

- User friendly system at selecting color, at least I struggle with the one that it has.

Absolutely on this one, and even possibly a tick box for LWF. As of now in basic scenes if I am using the ONYX generated vertex color, you have to add a ColorCorrect material into the material slot, retaining the vertex color as a sub-material, so that you can key in a 2.2 gamma correction to get the vertex coloring to appear correctly and not look washed out.

[leed]

- develop TreeStorm plug-in for Cinema, and other relevant applications besides 3dsMax.

 

I have been awaiting the Tree Storm plugin for C4d for ages. Onyx have not developed a new version for ages......

 

I would like a Bush and flower element... but most of all the ability to have animated the tree in c4d which would be TREE STORM!!! FOR C4D!!!!

 

Lee

[BrianKitts]

I would like a Bush and flower element...

 

?? the lastest OnyxGarden suite already has bushes and flowers..... ??

 

 

but there's another one to mention for treestorm..... the ability to insert onyx flowers, and bamboo with the treestorm plugin. Right now AFAIK you can only treestorm the broadleaf, conifer, and palm models.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

While there isn't a plugin version, Onyx outputs a .c4d file, so that's fine. I suppose a plugin might allow you to keep trees variable even after placement in a file, so that would be a nice treat. But not if it came with a massive RAM overhead or introduced stability problems, which some plugs do.

 

Travis--are you planning to gather these ideas up and submit them to the people who make Onyx?

 

Yes, I would like to either email the Onyx people directly with a link to this thread, or format the ideas, and send it to them. I am not sure if they have a user base beside visualization, if they do, I am not sure who they would be. I think we are there core users of their product.

 

The TreeStorm plug-in allows you to place the onyx tree directly in Max, and add wind and such if you want. I typically use it to place the tree, then convert the tree to a editable mesh or proxy if RAM management will be an issue. You don't get the annoying EULA dialog when using TreeStorm, and it does take a few steps out of the process, but I don't think I would refer to it as completely streamlined because when you update the tree, it typically looses any custom color or texture work you have done in Max.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

Right now AFAIK you can only treestorm the broadleaf, conifer, and palm models.

 

I have never used my flower module, so I didn't realize it wasn't supported with TreeStorm.

[leed]

?? the lastest OnyxGarden suite already has bushes and flowers..... ??

.

 

Yes PC only though..... has not come to the Mac platform yet.... I have been checking on and off since it has come out....

 

 

Lee

[Camby1298]

but there's another one to mention for treestorm..... the ability to insert onyx flowers, and bamboo with the treestorm plugin. Right now AFAIK you can only treestorm the broadleaf, conifer, and palm models.

 

Agree on that, would b nice to use both of those gardens with TreeStorm, as well as the ability to mass populate them within max, (to create ground covers of perennial flowers or grasses) All while keepin it within a parameter type object (help keep file size down).

[Ernest Burden III]

In C4D I use low-poly trees where the canopy is a massing shape (which Onyx will create as an option) and then use a combination of displacement and alpha patterning to make variable. The amount of displacment and therefor detail is controllable based on distance from a camera or scene center. It would be great if an Onyx plugin could also be made to control complexity of the models by distance. Close trees would be nicely detailed and appropriately highpoly, distant trees would be lowpoly and suggestive.

 

Its simply a matter of the plugin having its controls open to user-settings and be updatable, and then applying scene-specific data like distance from a camera.

 

Because of the way Cinema works, I can even have that control when the tree is an Instanced Object. I don't know it Max can do that, but if not it should.

[Camby1298]

In C4D I use low-poly trees where the canopy is a massing shape (which Onyx will create as an option) and then use a combination of displacement and alpha patterning to make variable. The amount of displacment and therefor detail is controllable based on distance from a camera or scene center. It would be great if an Onyx plugin could also be made to control complexity of the models by distance. Close trees would be nicely detailed and appropriately highpoly, distant trees would be lowpoly and suggestive.

 

Its simply a matter of the plugin having its controls open to user-settings and be updatable, and then applying scene-specific data like distance from a camera.

 

Because of the way Cinema works, I can even have that control when the tree is an Instanced Object. I don't know it Max can do that, but if not it should.

 

Plug-ins such as groundwiz allow the user to determine LOD (Limit of detail) per user inputed distance from the camera. So the further away the plant is, the less geometry it contains; very handy (for Max, don know about C4D)

[FlyinHawaiian]

Here's 2 huge things that I think Onyx broadleaf is missing (and I've probably mentioned these on these threads a bunch of times already, but here they are again. ):

 

Option to create seed pods/flowers, etc. natively. Yeah, I know you can divide up the leaves through treestorm and replace the resulting sub-objects with custom geometry, but, if you try to replace the leaves with flower geometry, you get flowers randomly placed through the tree (including in the center of the tree canopy - completely unrealistic and a waste of poly's if you ask me.) It would be awesome if the flowers etc could be automatically constrained to the outer canopy surface of the tree.

 

Speaking of canopy, how many times have I tried to create a tree with a broad canopy and either ended up with a tree that had a gaping hole on one side (due to trying to optimize the tree with a low number of boughs), or was packed so full of boughs/branches in the center, that you couldn't see through it (The only way to get a full canopy without gaping holes in the outer canopy). It would be AWESOME if tree storm had a function similar to Pawel OLAS's trees designer (too bad it's for lightwave only). This thing has blending between branch/bough levels, and even lets you grow your tree into any shape(s) you create. Brilliant! Any lightwave people out there want to trade lightwave for max tips?

 

Oh, yeah, and when creating creating sub-object leaves, why can't I just grab the entire tree and collapse it all to mesh? Currently, I have to collapse the leaves to mesh, save that to a seperate file, take the base trunk, modify it by turning off all leaves, collapse that, and then merge the collapsed trunk into the other seperate file. Why does it have to be so finicky?

 

Oh, and a perspective view in any of the tree creation modules would be invaluable! Undo would be nice too (But I think this one has been mentioned already).

 

Ah well, that was 4 things. It's amazing to me that no-one has come up with a competing solution. I guess there's just not that large of a market.

[gfa2]

Yes, I would like to either email the Onyx people directly with a link to this thread, or format the ideas, and send it to them.

 

Trying not to spread rumors or anything, but just to tell you what I've read other places...the developers of Onyx aren't exactly into feedback on their product. I've read that their thought is...Onxytree is what it is, if you like it, good...if you don't like it, don't use it. This could explain why the program looks like it was created for Windows 3.1 and has never changed.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it updated too...I use it a lot myself. Just don't get your hopes up.

 

Sorry don't mean to be a downer The effort is commendable.

[gfa2]

So...of course now that I sprayed graffiti all over, you probably won't want to point them to this post.

[Ernest Burden III]

the developers of Onyx aren't exactly into feedback on their product.

 

They were happy to take my creditcard info. Hopefully they will disprove that rumor and respond favorably to this user input.

 

Oh, and the flowers on trees--so obvious, but none of came up with it. Thanks for mentioning that one!

[bjornkn]

Lots of good ideas here:)

Onyx definitely needs an upgrade IMO. It is a nice program, but shows its age. What I miss the most is the ability to output lower poly trees that still looks good, particularly conifers. So far I have not been able to generate convincing conifers without letting it make every single needle as 3D, which ends up with huge trees, even when fairly small.

The ability to shape trees would definitely be very welcomed too. I use LW and TreeDesigner/LeavesDesigner, which are great. You have a different kind of control there, which lets you control where the boughs and branches should go, but less control with how the branching happens. It makes less accurate trees iow, but is a lot more versatile than Onyx. Like the attached "global tree", which could never have been made in Onyx.

 

So my wishes for Onyx would be:

More shape control.

More low poly options (particularly for conifers and flowers).

Updated GUI.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

N

Oh--how about making sure we have the most common trees, like a London Plane Tree. How about that?

 

Funny. I have a project in front of me now calling for a row of Platanus Acerifolia. A.K.A. London Plane.

[Ernest Burden III]

Funny. I have a project in front of me now calling for a row of Platanus Acerifolia. A.K.A. London Plane.

 

Let me know which Onyx tree you use. I thought some of the gum trees looked a lot like the LPs.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

Let me know which Onyx tree you use. I thought some of the gum trees looked a lot like the LPs.

 

I almost always use a customized onyx tree. I can’t remember what I started with, but the one I am using for it I have labeled “Cork Oak.” I believe it is within Onyx’s agreement to share Onyx files since you need their program to read them anyway. What I am using is attached to this post. The 1st tier of branches are angled up to fast, and the third tier are angled down too much. It might need a medium leaf size, right now it is on small. I haven’t used this one in production yet, so it may get adjusted. I will probably just run with this one right now for the sake of production time.

 

I still haven’t had time to watch Brian’s Onyx video to check how my customization of trees stack up with his methods of using them, so I am not making any promises on the optimization for rendering time. I typically shoot for 250,000 to 300,000 polygon count according to the Onyx TreeStorm settings. I find this works well for me. After they are proxied, I have pushed it 1,600 in one scene. I could probably go beyond that, but haven’t had the need yet.

 

Also, I know Onyx has a nursery on their site where people can upload the Onyx files for others to use, but I haven't tested any of those out.

 

http://www.sheridangardens.com/tree%20images/platanus_acerifolia.jpg

 

.

[dunniz]

Crazy homeless guy,

 

I know this is a little off topic, but how do you texture your trees? if you could give me a few pointers i would be most grateful?

 

Do you convert them into editable poly/mesh or leave them in their original format and adjust the materials?

 

many thanks in advance.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

Crazy homeless guy,

 

I know this is a little off topic, but how do you texture your trees? if you could give me a few pointers i would be most grateful?

 

Do you convert them into editable poly/mesh or leave them in their original format and adjust the materials?

 

many thanks in advance.

 

I use the TreeStorm plug-in, then check the the UV coordinates tick box. I then go into the sub-object material, and apply a bark map. Typically you need to make bark maps use 3 or so vertical tiles, depending on how tall your bark map is. After the tree is mapped, I convert it to a editable mesh, then make it a proxy object. You can adjust the materials after it is either converted to a editable mesh, or proxied, but it is better to do it while it is still sing the TreeStorm plug-in. This way you have the option to easily go back and modify it in TreeStorm if need be.

[jkletzien]

- More leaf types, of perhaps let the user load a leaf type that they have created by tracing over a leaf in 2d.

 

As a side note you can actually already do this in max treestorm..

http://www.onyxtree.com/stormx.html#Natural

 

I would like the ability to introduce more noise into the branch forms, so the twisting and curving aren't so uniformly smooth.

 

And on another note it looks like they've updated their treestorm plugins recently. Apparently thoroughly checked for stability...we'll see.