andrew Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 I come from a Microstation modelling and rendering background making presentation stills for architects. Looking into other rendering program options, but will probably continue to model in Microstation now with the dwg compatibility of Microstation V8. Leaning toward Viz 4 because so many architectural industry resources are provided for it, but have heard the renderings from Viz 4 described as "flat." Are both finalrender and Brazil options for improving the rendering in Viz 4? Any opinions out there finalrender vs. Brazil? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Forget about fRender, the big choise is Vray-Brasil, and specialy fur architektur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Many Viz renderings are flat due to the operator, not the program. Same goes for all applications. John D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojciech Klepacki Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 John is right... most all annoying effects come from operator lack of skills. Nowadays major things subjects to ability and only minor of them subjects to software. (I mean top software). The separate problem is how fast u can achieve a good image and how much u must learn to master the program u've chosen. This is my personal opinion of course.rgds,Wojciech Klepacki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 You should never credit OR blame work on the program or rendering engine. A good artist can do good work in any program... For example the following was done in TrueSpace: http://www.cgchannel.com/forum/viewthread?thread=534 a $400 program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesar R Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 hi, I agree with the guys. I am learning Viz GI and honeslty I used to get flat images at first and I still do alot of times, but further dedication to the project I am working on at time helps me lead over to better quality images. take a look at WIP 1701 middle river. I am dont have good skills but my work is slowly taking shape - btw thaks to those who help me everyday .. u know who u are. that project was modeled in modeled in ADT and rendered using the daylight system. now that I am learning VIZ GI would not spend my money on 3rd party renders. unless I want caustics!!!! Viz needs caustics!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 I wouldn't dismiss fR yet. Look at the gallery section on their forum http://www.finalrender.com (I think that's it). There is stuff that easily rivals the best out there. How much faster the new version is will largely determine it's success/demise. It's also half the price of Brazil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 That is EXACTLY what you should NOT be doing... Judging work based on a gallery.... If you look at this Gallery: http://www.raph.com/3dartists/ You would say that Maya is the best rendering engine... From my experience, it is one of the worst, but the artists makes it good. finalRender was a tool that a talented artist used to make images. Same with Brazil, Vray, etc... I'm not going to buy a Stanley hammer because it made a Eames table, I'm going to buy it because it feels good in my hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesar R Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 NO Chris, you missed the point. I wanted him to look at my WIP in efforts to notice how an early render looks flat and ugly, and once skills are applyed in addition with knowledge of the software you can achieve very good result. In my case usinf viz I went from flat renders to what I think are very decent looking GI renders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwright Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 I don’t like VIZ 4 rendering engine, is not the same as LS rendering engine. In my experience If you consider rendering time vs. quality, I prefer VRay. We use LS+LW.. But do experiment with other tools frequently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Chris, Of course it is the artist that matters most, but on the same token, I think it is relevant to look at the imagery. We are looking for perfect, photoreal images, so when you see something that looks fantastic, I like to investigate how he/she did it. Much as to do with the software capabilities when it comes to these rendering programs. I look for artifact free renderings, blurry reflections, smooth/soft dispersion of light/shadows, etc., which I think you can see in some of the better renderings.I am always particularly interested in the speed of the rendering and if light passes through the glass (I don't believe they've solved that one, correct? Short of caustics). Most of these things, if you look really carefully, are revealed in the images. The fR gallery usually posts settings and render times, which give a lot of info.I probably should have been more clear, I just didn't want someone to dismiss fR before Stage 1 was released.Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted January 22, 2003 Author Share Posted January 22, 2003 Sure, a great operator with a lousy program will beat a lousy operator with a great program. I'm interested in another scenario: great operators only using Max/Viz. Do they choose frender or vray or brazil to improve the results they can get out of Max/Viz? Why or why not? The Nick Nakadate review of Brazil in CGarchitect concludes, "With such a rich and reliable 1.0 release, Brazil is sure to be an extremely valuable tool in the design toolbox of small and large companies alike." Do you agree or disagree with Nick Nakadate's assessment? Here is a link: http://www.cgarchitect.com/news/Reviews/Review012_1.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 First Cesar and mrb... sorry I jumped the gun there. You are right... thanks for clarifying your points. In terms of reviews of a product, you could also look at mine: http://www.cgarchitect.com/news/Reviews/Review007_1.asp The review is very old in Vray terms. Vray has since been improved a great deal and is even faster. I am starting to make a collection of threads like these... my collection is pretty good. I think I can collect about 10 a day... just kidding. The point is, of the 1000's of times that people bring it up, nothing gets concluded. This is what I say. Many of them offer free versions. Try them out for a week solid on each one. Not just rendering optimized tests scenes and teapots. Really try them. Each person has a different process, price range, etc... The results you are going to get are going to be similar. The different is going to be in your process. Hence, forget the gallery... all you need to do is to look at the sponza submissions to see that all of them are pretty similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Nichols Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 Here are some links just on this forum: http://www.cgarchitect.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000263#000012 http://www.cgarchitect.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=000014 http://www.cgarchitect.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=000018 http://www.cgarchitect.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=34;t=000001 http://www.cgarchitect.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=34;t=000002 http://www.cgarchitect.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=34;t=000003 http://www.cgarchitect.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000106 http://www.cgarchitect.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000104 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted January 23, 2003 Author Share Posted January 23, 2003 Christopher GREAT ANSWER! Thanks for the links and the suggestion about intensively testing the alternatives oneself. Hope I can find the time for that process. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiboOst Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 I wouldn't dismiss fR neither. As mrb said, wait for stage1, definitely another step into renderers for 3dsmax. Some nice things to come also on the net soon, keep your eyes around... Don't forget stage0 is now a old renderer, and still compete nicely ! my 2cent Kib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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