Is ArchiCAD really the Holy Grail?

[Paul Griger]

Matt,

 

AC 8 release page info:

 

http://www.graphisoft.com/products/architecture_and_design/graphisoft_archicad/archicad8/

 

Boolean Geometry appears to be included.

 

We'll see this fall how well it works.

[plastic]

even better: archicad8 has opengl realtime zoom & pan, autocad style (mousewheel...)

[matt_vinoir]

God aren't we sad getting so exited. However, i'm syked! whoppee!! p.s. get marc lorenz's download for archicad/viz. That man is a freakin' genius. I'm feeling better and better about being about to just do the terrain and water modelling in viz and leave the rest of that nastiness alone!.

 

Btw. have you seen jon seagulls website. Bizarre how good his stuff is. And it all on max not gi or anything. He thinks it takes just as long to tweak rad as it does to hand place lighting? true? ( opps this isn't about archicad is it sorry, i'm so blody random!?

[Rick Eloy]

I know I'm kindda late for this discussion, but I just saw it...

 

Anyway, this is an interesting question...We had the oportunity to read two sides of the story (Paul, who uses AC and loves it and, may I say, the rest of us?), so now I'm gonna give you the centered side of the story:

 

I used to work at Graphisoft. I helped the developing team from AC 5 until AC 6.5. We always had a few problems dealing with our customers: comparisons with AutoCAD. As someone said earlier, 99% of the world market is AutoCAD's property. The rest is divided among all the others (AC, VectorWorks, DataCAD, IntelliCAD...). Why?

The answer is not easy. AutoCAD came in long ago, in a time when 3D was not even a dream. So everybody simply learned to draw and think the AutoCAD-way. When AC began its development, the concept was diferent. Architects wanted a friendly approach, they wanted to be able to design their projects right into the computer. That's the reason why AC is so diferent.

 

Okay, very nice. So what? Technically, AC is a little bit more complicated to work. The workflow is diferent. You have to start right in order to get the right results. It's difficult to correct things in a more advanced level. Layers work diferent, views are diferent, and it hasn't any advanced modelling tools. Booleans is a dream, for instance.

But my point is: I worked IN AC for a while, and I've been working with AutoCAD since r11 (we're using AutoCAD 2002, now), and I can assure you that if your goal is to render your work, go for 3D Studio (Max or Viz). Weird? I can explain. A few years ago, I used to do all the modelling in AutoCAD. It always took too long, was too difficult, and the results were not always good. Then, when I joined the Graphisoft team, I started to use AC to model my stuff. Walls with automatic doors are great, but try to model a detailed roof without RoofMaker nor TrussMaker, or a decent terrain using only the mesh tool. Let's face it, the tools for serious modelling simply don't exist. And the libraries... !!!! Even the Barbie Dream House furnitures are more realistic!

SO, I started modelling directly on 3D Studio. It made me wonder "what took me so long to wake up?" I've been using 3D Studio since r3 for DOS, but only for rendering my stuff. But you can make very complicated models in a snap! You have all the tools you need and, even better, new tools appear from out of the blue everyday. And you have forums, countless sites...

My opinion is: if you want to model and render seriously, go right for a REAL 3D package, like Viz or Max. If you want to make drafts, techl plans, you can choose any CAD you want. They're not the best tools to do what we do: 3D. Of course you can learn "modelling" with AC very fast, but I doubt you can achieve the same result in the same time with the same quality as if you used a real 3D soft.

And, by the way, I loved the Art*lantis joke...A "toy"...I never thought about it that way, but I think it's the best definition I've heard so far...

 

[]

Rick

[matt_vinoir]

I think really Rick has got is quite right.

 

In essence, i used to draft and model in AC or VW

and so the thought of having to swop the way you model stops you from continuing.

 

However, having stopped any 3d for a few months in my year out after a lot of AC work i came back to it with VIz. At first i thought god this is horrible to use but then when i went back to AC, i realised that my modelling wasn't that good or easy in AC. Your mind thinks that it was so much easier before in a way.

 

Talking about AC specifically. If you are building a brick house with tiled roof and nice wood sash windows then AC is for you. If you don't ( like please god anygood architect doesn't!) thenit isn't designed specifically for you. Like Rick said. The furniture is a joke.

(this isn't a problem as you can import that in 3d max/viz) the terrain is also hard (do it in 3dmax/viz) and to make effective water ( max/viz)

 

Also if you haveto make some ammendments after already doing a lot of modelling meaning it is hard to chage ( again max/viz0

 

When you think about it there isn't a whole lot left to do in AC is there?

 

My main concern with AC is that the windows and door library parts are just awful. If there were lots of places where you can download new gsm files or new window scrits etc. it would improve but realisticaly all you are doing is a few walls and slabs in AC which you can do without the file translation in max/viz.

 

Having said all of this, i'm going to carry on in AC cos i have to tutor to the degree students next year and i'll forget how to use it.

 

I think that revit might be a good option when it comes out but thats a different topic.

[stefkeB]

Artlantis is fast, easy and usable (but limited)

 

Artlantis plugin AV_Works is better (IMHO, never been able to use it) because it is integrated in ArchiCAD.

 

max/viz or C4D are much more powerfull, but you miss a decent way of updating the geometry, once changes are made in ArchiCAD (marc lorenz plugins are a must have!)

 

Use ArchiCAD for whatever needs to be in your construction drawings.

If you're not an architect, you probably only care about 3Dpart and then ArchiCAD is way too expensive, unless you have a great amount of 3D-modeling work.

 

ADT (AutoCAD Architectural Desktop) is much more complex, but a little more tweakable. Having a direct file-link with VIZ is a bonus (although it seems to work more or less when linking ArchiCAD exported DWG-files to VIZ).