myron Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 hi guys, im a autocad user, for my drawings+3d modeling for 6-7 years now. i ve never liked viz for my modeling and renderings only because they are sooo complex and take time to set up a scene with decent results. and there are always problems when inserting a model into viz :ngeupset: i like things to be less complex,friendly.... All good rendering software are plugins of viz....there must be something that does not need viz!! even lightscape will stop as a standalone software.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhanu Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 You can use Accurender for radiosity and raytrace rendering within AutoCAD. This will phenomenally increases your rendering quality.Working with Accurender farely simple. To get good renderings need to spend good amount of time. :ebiggrin: visit www.accurender.com Most of them do rendering from AutoCAD 3d models in Viz or Max. Not a big problem in importing or linking AutoCAD objects in MAX/VIZ. It ia all your time need to spend on learning and getting aquinted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 you asked this question last week. the answer - learn 3d software like the rest of us. there's no easy solution im sorry. nothing in this world is easy unless you know how to do it, and to do that you must learn it. also, i suspect you model with solids in autocad? thats why you're getting problems when importing your mesh into viz. also, autocad has it's own competant renderer. why not learn that? i'm a dedicated autocad user of over 10 years. i dont use viz/max for my rendering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingeldar Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 art'lantis render can import (some way i don't know how) autoCAD files pepos told me that was pretty easy to use (easier than max anyway) but i don't know i'm a adt/viz/max user Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myron Posted February 22, 2004 Author Share Posted February 22, 2004 STRAT, i know i asked the question, almost, but as u can see almost everybody HAS to follow autodesk and viz.... orangemad I like beeing precise in my drawings and models and i cant get it with rino or viz etc. I use accurender, its good. i model with solids, thats why the problem with viz :onfusedw: Since you are a autocad user, what rendering software do u use? thanks guys....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 cinema 4d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingeldar Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 c4d that is quite almost complex and time consumming to use than max.... this guy asked 4 easy and fast stuff.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 there is no easy stuff!!! he wants to render. c4d has a super easy renderer to learn. 10 times easier than viz and max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhanu Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Strange..AutoCAD solids , ADT AEC elements comes pretty cool with VIZ / MAX. Cinema 4D ia a very nice renderer if some one is building everything in AutoCAD. Some my friends in India working with C4D and they found simple to apply material and render. Output is much better than MAX default scanline renderer ...this was discussed in some threads in detail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingeldar Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 not really an answer to da question but it's connecetd a little... Choosing the Best 3D Rendering Application for Your Needs (New for 2004) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 If you are an architect, you'll find FormZ much easier to learn than Max or Cinema. The terminology and layout is architecturally oriented, unlike the others that are aimed at everything from hollywood animations to special effects. All of the firms I know of use FormZ for their modeling and design. I don't know of one firm, anywhere, that models and designs in anything else. It's the fastest modeler for architecture, hands down. The rendering is not spectacular, but if you use fake GI, it can be good (it's just slower than Max). Hopefully now that it's open source and support plugins, there will be renderers like Final Render (my renderer of choice). If they made a plugin for animation and one for rendering, I would give up Max altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Paske Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Originally posted by STRAT: [QB] you asked this question last week. the answer - learn 3d software like the rest of us. there's no easy solution im sorry. I agree, you have to put in the effort to learn the software to achieve good results. Even with a simple program like Accurrender, there are tricks you have to learn to get around it's lack of features. That takes time and practice. also, i suspect you model with solids in autocad? thats why you're getting problems when importing your mesh into viz. If you use the file link manager in Viz, you'll find a lot of those problems dissapear. also, autocad has it's own competant renderer. why not learn that? Really? Perhaps for "bare bones" renderings, but for generating images that meet general expectations, autocad isn't close to having the necessary features. I think the tool that you grown with over time will be the one you'll have the most success with, it's tough to explore or jump from one to another (also expensive). I know a lot of firms that do all their modelling and rendering in Viz/Max, MBR. I think it's the skill level that determines if an apllication is "the fastest" for architectural modeling - and designing buildings with. The majority of the designers I work with model in AutoCad because the booleans operations are so easy to learn. Then they do their rederings in Accurender or Viz/Max. A lot of the Accurender people are converting over to Viz/Max because they hit a ceiling of what they can do and want to learn a more extensive program and are concerned with its future. I don't have anything against FormZ, but you have to weigh in your current design environment and work flow operations. Using Autocad to model and using the File Link Manager in Viz/Max allows several members of a team, where I work, to effectively work together. The few FormZ people have been absorbed into the Viz/Max group simply because FormZ doesn't import/export .dwgs in a way that makes it easy to work with large teams. I don't know anything about C4D, but the results I've seen are incredible. Myron, it's your choice and hopefully we've helped. It's tough to be impartial, but in the end you are going to have to bite the bullit, buy a book or two and consider doing online tutorials. :winkgrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 I know most firms (at least the larger ones) will render in Max, but I didn't know of many that use it to design with. When I was at Gensler, I would use FormZ to design the building, as would others, and much, much later it would be brought to Max to render. I am not a proficient modeler in Acad, so I can't say first hand, but I do know of friends that dropped it in favor of FormZ. Down the road I can see how it'd be useful to model in Acad or Revit. (although, I hate to say it, I can't think to highly of Autodesk with their president's contribution to the Bush campaign - $50k...kinda - I say he should have stayed out of the spotlight if he wanted to contribute...sorry, don't mean to stir up politics, it just surprised me). I will be keeping an eye on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingeldar Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 [ February 28, 2004, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: kingeldar ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Paske Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 I heard about Autodesk restructuring, but I really doubt they're going away. http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/business/2003/0311260910.asp?A=HOME&O=FPW MBR - Hey, we live in a political world, so voice away! I didn't hear about their political contribution, I don't think to highly of that myself. Sorry if I wasn't too clear, most people I know design with AutoCad (model) and render in Viz/Max and Accurender. A handful do everything in Max/Viz. Everyone has a copy of AutoCad on their computer, so it's encouraged to use that as a "standard" and not buy another package (FormZ) to design with. [ February 22, 2004, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: calvino56 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 regardless of whether you like autocad or not, it is freakin' huge. i really don't think it is going anywhere, especially after skimming the posted link. 550-650 people is approximately 17% of its employees. ...and most of those employees are admin and marketing according to the report. apparently autodesk is restructuring to deal with some software acquisitions. basically it sounds like they are cutting the marketing and admin for that were employed by the companies that they purchased. not pleasant, but just your standard business move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingeldar Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 i don't like or dis-like Autodesk i don't give a f*** about that company i like some of A software (adt, revit 3ds) but don't like the 5 times a day autidesk products crash i hope autodesk is in very good businees shape but i don't think so considering what i know in france u know Autodesk sold only 15 revit licence (since 18 month!! lol) and they GIVE for FREE ADT2004 to peops who wanna buy AutoCAD sometimes they even sell it to peops who wanted acad LT (at same price sumetin like 1500 euros..) [ February 28, 2004, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: kingeldar ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 It is expensive to buy Acad, FormZ, and Max, and I know there is many times a battle for the key (especially with Max, costing so much). Here in the states, though, most of the top schools teach FormZ and Maya. Max fell to the way side about 6 years ago. Politics: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object.cgi?paper=chronicle&file=BUGEN4VJN01.DTL&directory:(chronicle/archive/2004/02/15&type=business&object:(chronicle/pictures/2004/02/15/bu_bartz15 .jpg I don't like that :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingeldar Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 in france a student should consider hiself VERY HAPPY if he learnt A FEW autoCAD 2d during studies (that last at least 6 years... can u believe it??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 the problem with autodesk has been covered a couple of times before. they are a huge company, and they tend to do what they want, sometimes with disregard to their customer base. we know there are better, cheaper apps out there, that are both easier to use, and easier on the system. ....but 3dmax is huge, and covers enough disciplines that there is no match when it comes to plug-ins. look at all of the new age renderers out there. vray, finalrender, brazil, ect... they are either exclusively centered around max, or are primarily designed to work with max. i hate how much 3dmax cost, and how heavy it is on the system, but i am still going to add it to my bag of tricks, along side of my favorites, which are formz, lightwave, microstation. if i was the one flipping the bill for these apps, i would stick to formz and lightwave. ...but the company is willing to flip the bill for max in dreams that we will be able to integrate our office by drafting, and basic modeling with adt, and rendering/animation with max. bottom line. no one likes autodesk, but we put up with them. why... not because it is a great app, but because it is freakin' huge, and has a poop load of plug-ins. i would be cautious of saying it has fallen wayside. look no further than where the posts are in the software section of this forum. the majority fall on max's and vis's boards. i wish there were better plug-ins for formz, but there are not. yes, with version 4 there is the opportunity, but to the best of my knowledge, they still have not released the code for writing the plug-ins yet. whichever company is going to catch max, they are going to have to do a better job than they currently are. maya dropped its price a year ago to compete, lightwave has always been cheap, and formz is in such a selective market that it is often ignored by people outside of architecture. maya and lightwave are powerful apps, and they can do arch viz, but they do not spend a lot of time focusing on those markets. i know lots of people are pro cinema4d, but i have never played in it, and don't plan to. i feel like i already have enough on my plate that i am trying to learn without adding that. ...and one last note. with formz being such a great architecture app, you would think they would have more posts in the software section of this message board. ....although they do have great support on their website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEVIANS Cedric Architect Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 hello.. yes in france we learn some differents softs AEC in study ... implantation of AEC software is not the same... in france ..in Architectural Agency, the most used software is ... AUTOCAD LT ... just do plan and section with ... why ? because lot of french architect don't known using computer for design ... in reality, lot of architect employed student or young (very young!!) architect for use AEC design and computer in there agency. And actually there is some others softs... so .. AUTOCAd but Archicad and allplan (from graphisoft and nemetschek... european software...= is in the place but actually lot of REVIT send in france (just the beginning..) 3dsMAX not very used in architectural french agency (VIZ some times..) i known some agency with cinema4D .. but Form-z never has succeeds in being established correctly. especially by a lack of follow-up (French documention and follow-up customer) dommage good soft.... :???: (but complex ) I worked in large Parisian agency and with each time I saw ADT, it was only in its package. In France, ADT is sold especially to update its AUTOCAD!!! and often the French agencies of architecture do not have all competences in the agency to make returned in cgrender. they often call upon external agencies example : ME ... sometimes and lot of other society for do best render...) So .. Actually i think that most software come on the first place... all AEC software.... Autocad is only 2D software (old .. old.. old) the future is REVIT or allplan (i think is rEVIT for me.. yes .. i buy a license... ) so .. future is parametric 3D software... but kingeldar we can speak on french situation if you want :angewink: ... and warning ... American and european approch of Architecture (in agency) is not the same ... (i don't speak on quality..) i speak on system conception.. do not read any insult in here... good day for all ... ps : i think VIZ/MAX is good choice for 3d render.. why ? lot of plugins.. and can read DWG directly ... so ... what do you want more ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Paske Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Hey MBR, thanks for that link :ebiggrin: I don't know whether to laugh or cry (the third one definately falls in the laugh category). It is interesting that schools do teach FormZ and Maya. I talk to fresh out of school employees all the time, and see their portfolios. To me, this represents the distance still maintained betweeen acadamia and the real world in Architecture. I think there's an unforntunate gap, which I witness all the time, between what's taught in the universities and what the profession demands. Looking at it from my position, I think it's great that Autodesk has competition, and perhaps that is one of the underlying reasons why those "other" apps are taught - so there is a greater future demand, which spurs development and eventually drives prices down. Now, if only there was a OS other than Microsoft that Max and Autocad operated under....FreeBSD anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtiscareno Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Myron, dont despair, check out new thread in general discussion for new Accurender4 beta tester. I know that AR can be limited but like so many people say, it is not the car but the pilot is the one that really counts. And with all the steam that Mcneel (makers of Accurender, Rhino, Flamingo, Penguin) is getting lately, it seems that Accurender is not ready to die yet. http/:http://www.accurender.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauarduz Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 It sound so strange to me that someone who has used ACAD for so long finds VIZ hard ???? VIZ is ACADS cousin, GUI almost same, terminology, layers ???, File Link ???? wasn't viz MADE to interact with ACAD ??? I'd recommend you either take the time to actually get involved in 3D or just hire someone to render for you. greetz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtiscareno Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Hey Maurizio, I sort of see were you are coming from but you have to take into acount that, yes Viz is as big as Acad but no, by no means that by that reasoning they are the same in concern with layers. Photoshop has layers, Flahs has layers. Does that means that Acad, Viz, Photoshop and Flahs are almost the same? Don't think so! And actually, joining this forum and being active is a nother step in the process to learn viz/brazil. I have posted aproject in the WIP forum that I have rendered in accurender and the second post is my try in viz/brazil. So instead of telling me or myron to "go look for other people", please help us in the shorten the learning curve of viz: http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/showthread.php?p=39973#post39973 Nos vemos Maurizio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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