Ernest Burden III Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 I wonder if there are enough people interested in doing freelance sub work in architectural vis. to create a place on CGA for them to post "I'm available" notices. I was just reading that sort of listing on CGtalk (where I rarely go). Does anyone (Jeff in particular) think that is something we should have--we already have job postings. One difference between CGA and CGtalk seems to me to be the percentage of professionals vs. hobbyists. CGA is almost entirely professionals, and as such, not people who would want to get sub work to another renderer. Yet as a renderer, I might need to hire a freelancer occasionally to get through a glut of work, so it would be nice to have a listing of people looking for architectural work, rather than dragon and sword modeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siliconbauhaus Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 I'm up for that idea as I'm always on the look out for freelance work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 sounds like a great idea. CGTalk, with having a great deal of hobbyists and gamers gets a lot of "come work on my mod team, you won't get paid but the exposure could make you famous...blah...blah...blah" I don't think CGA would suffer from this given the professionalism of the crowd round here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted May 2, 2003 Author Share Posted May 2, 2003 Yeah, I was thinking more in the line of "come work on my mod team, you won't get famous...but will make your hourly rate" Simple enough. My question is are there enough people who would want to BE listed...there certainly are enough pro's who may sometimes need a little extra help.[/QB] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jeff Mottle Posted May 2, 2003 Administrators Share Posted May 2, 2003 Hey Ernest, Would the CGLookup list in the resources section be along the lines of what you are lookig for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted May 2, 2003 Author Share Posted May 2, 2003 Would the CGLookup list in the resources section be along the lines of what you are lookig for? No. I didn't even realize it was there...and I looked at 'resources' just this morning. That list is of mostly professional renderers and visualization companies. I am talking about people new to the business, enterprising students, moonlighting employees, etc. who want to get 'pick up' work. For example, I might need someone to model some custom furniture for a restaurant (come to think of it...) or model background buildings or convert a whole folder of ACAD drawings, or build a site from topos. For the most part this work does not take a professional studio owner, and why would someone on that level even want the work? Besides, pros cost pro rates. Students and newcomers need the work and are more affordable. It can be beneficial to both parties--as long as the arrangement is open and honest and rates paid are industry-standard. In other words, I'm not interested in exploiting people. The list in 'resources' is way too obtuse. I am suggesting a very straight-forward way for persons interested in sub work to list themselves. They should have a way to list what they can do (3D models, UV mapping, texture design, Photoshop re-touching, animation, lighting) and what sort of work they seek--freelance vs. in-house position. I did read the jobs postings and saw several studios asking for this sort of contact. A friend of mine in NYC ran an ad and got a bunch of resumes, and I can post a notice at all the NYC architecture/design schools, too. But that's just here. CGA is broader than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingo Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 >> CGA is almost entirely professionals, and as such, not people who would want to get sub work to another renderer. I couldn't agree here, nearly a third of my work is building modells for other cga's, and both parties learn a lot from each other. For example it was an interesting experience for me to build modells for Peter Wels, a well known artist for architectural work in the "traditional style". And not to forget, sometimes its impossible to make a job alone, so you had to team up with another professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mzagorski Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Sounds like a good idea Ernest! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Griger Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 I like Ernest’s idea as well. It would be mutually beneficial for both parties on a financial and even educational level. Plus if someone is in tight spot, it’s always nice to be able to farm out something to a peer. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcahunak Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Hi all. Ernest, it sounds like a begining of a good idea (and I'll explain about the "beginning" later) But, were you thinking about something like this: A "free for freelance job flag" in our title bar? I would assume it will just be turned on for all of us all the time. Who wouldn't want to be asked for a job? for example, from all 1000 CGA forum members, there are about 5 which are on my MSN messenger. With some of them, I already discussed jobs offerings, and helping each other. That way, you even know them better before, which makes working together much easier (getting used to someones way of working, approaching a project, which programs they use, availability...) I'm sure that there are many others friendships between CGA forum members. I just think an established contact would work better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuno Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 seems to be an excellent idea.... ... nuno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 At first this sounds like a good idea BUT... my experience is completely the other way around. What I know from too many job applies is that most of the people promote themselves well (to have great skills) but manage only a very basic level. Of course this could be different on CGA because of it's great amount of professionals aboard, but this could change very quick once the students start riding the flow of jobs... Members on such a list (especially students) will promote themselves wrongly to get more jobs. Saying one can texturate well is completely different from having the skill. (as a solution to this, a one to five rating sounds more appropriate...) Other problems arise too... How to do legal payment (to non self-employed students e.g.)? How can one check if the software used is legal? etc. rgds, nisus ps: Imho there is but one solution for you at the moment Ernest: hire some extra hands [ May 03, 2003, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: nisus ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jeff Mottle Posted May 3, 2003 Administrators Share Posted May 3, 2003 Ernest: My suggestion then is to post your call for freelancers for you partime project to the jobs section. I quite often have people telling me to take their ads down becuase they have recievd too many applictions. I could also put up a new forum for people to post freelancer avaialbility and contact info. The forum would be limited to freelancers and I could put a link to it in the jobs section to tie it all together. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted May 3, 2003 Author Share Posted May 3, 2003 I guess I could simply post to the jobs section. But I don't think of occasional freelance overflow work as a 'job' for someone. CGtalk has a forum for people who want work of one sort or another. I have emailed two people who posted there--no replies yet. Sure you take a chance the first time you hire someone to work on something. But if they have samples, even school samples, you can judge. And not give them a project first-off that will kill you if they screw it up. I wasn't looking for skills equal to my own, so students and 'newbies' should be able to model background buildings, for example. If they cannot deliver on a first project you pay them and don't hire them again. Most people are honest about what they can and cannot do. Payment can be as easy as a money transfer via ebay's PayPal. It cost you a little bit extra, but it works, is fast and can even handle currency conversions. Someone local can be given a check, part up-front, balance on delivery. Clients trust me--why shouldn't I treat others as I am treated? In the US you can hire someone as a short-term freelancer on a form 1099. It's legal, and would be announced in advance. Legal software? With a freelancer it is not my concern. That sounds awful, but again--no client has ever asked me to prove my copy of Photoshop is legal. Since they are not your direct employee you have no direct control over them, and no liability. What I know from too many job applies is that most of the people promote themselves well (have great skills) but manage only a very basic level.Other problems arise too... How to do legal payment? How can one check if the software used is legal? ps: Imho there is but one solution for you at the moment Ernest: hire some extra hands Since I have a home-based studio I don't really WANT to hire anyone, as in a studio employee. Besides, that requires a proper employee relationship including tax witholding, unemployment insurance (I pay it now, but more if I hire more than just myself) and other complications. It would be easier to turn down the extra work than do all that. I don't mean to make this a complicated issue. It could be as simple as what CGtalk has done, or even posting a 'job' on this site. It's Jeff's call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 ...but this could change very quick once the students start riding the flow of jobs... Members on such a list (especially students) will promote themselves wrongly to get more jobs.Hey, I'm a student! We're not all crooks Thinking about it, is there any need to complicate this? If you or anyone has too much work and you've got a few names from this forum in mind to help you, can't you just email them? Or do you want a system which will avoid the possibilty of insulting a fellow illustrator by asking them to do duties they may feel to be below them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcahunak Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 Ernest, It could, and should be much easier for you. Next time you have such a project when extra help is needed, just start a thread specifically about it. You'll get plenty of replies. Ppl looking for a freelance job don't go to the Jobs section too often. However, checking the forum is at least a daily task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingo Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 Yes youre right bigC, i think we should make a Job section in the forums where Ernest can put his job offer and anyone can reply to this per email. That works fine in Newteks Lightwave forum too. BTW, how about a buy-and-sell section ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_A Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 Virtual Project Team! What better way to exploit the digital medium and this internet thing at a 'professional' level? I'd love to pass off some work right now. Since some of this would be App specific would it make sense to post within the application discussions rather than start an entirely new group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 I hope this won't end in a 'Ebay for work'... but one should give it a try, shouldn't one? nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted May 4, 2003 Author Share Posted May 4, 2003 We still don't know whether people will be here who WANT the work, should we post it. But I didn't think posting threads to the forum saying "I want help building furniture" or whatever to be within the proper use of the forum. That's why I asked for opinions about setting up a special place for either the postings (the jobs area already exists and get used, Jeff said) of the "I want work" idea. The reaction is so mixed that I doubt its worth Jeff doing. I can always try other ways to find good help. And I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david whiting Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 Ernest I'm in support of cg work of any kind being posted to the jobs section. In terms of finding opportunites to do good work, I don't see any difference between someone wanting to move to New York state to have the opportunity to work with Ernest Burden or wanting to help you from his office in Scotland ...both approaches provide opportunities to develop as an artist by working with someone who's work is of a high standard. We should all be able to enlist the help of good people who want to work with us irregardless of the scope of the work and their location in the world. The CGA site can be a big help in this regard. It would be exciting for our industry to demonstrate that talented people do not necessarily have to be in the same room to help produce good work. I'm sure many who have seen your work on the CGA site have already made the effort to get in touch with you. I'd be interested in people's views in posting 'freelance' work in the 'jobs' section. I don't think it necessary to use the forums to promote freelance work opportunites. A job is a job....and those who want the work will find it. Rgds David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jeff Mottle Posted May 4, 2003 Administrators Share Posted May 4, 2003 http://www.cgarchitect.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted May 4, 2003 Author Share Posted May 4, 2003 So now we test the age-old wisdom "build it and they will come". Thanks, Jeff, I hope this is a benefit to everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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