Anyone else model in AutoCAD? Anyone use file linking?

[Reitveld]

Hey I was reading the thread here: http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/showthread.php?t=109 about how drawings are taken from AutoCAD and imported into 3DStudio/Viz and modeled.

 

My question is... does anyone create their basic 3D model in AutoCAD? I create a majority of the model in AutoCAD and then link into 3D Viz. From Viz I will add in curves, details, etc. The problem for me is two fold. 1) I find AutoCAD a slow way of modeling (it is sometimes hard to snap to objects in 3D space, and it lacks a fast way of zipping around in 3Dspace) and 2) I’m not sure how to do certain things in Viz that can easily be done in AutoCAD. For example, I’m not sure how to extrude polyline walls in Viz and then punch windows/doors in those walls. Its easy in AutoCAD as I just Boolean subtract out the openings.

 

Anyone else model in AutoCAD? Anyone use file linking? Any good books/reference on how to quickly model in 3DStudio instead of AutoCAD?

 

Anyway, just some thought while I travel down the road of self-education.

[Vince Paske]

I model in AutoCad primarily, and with Max when I don't need to collaborate with other people in the office (who generally all model in AutoCad). On these occasions I like using lofts and shape merging meshese.

I think everyone who has been at this for a while starts to develop techniques that work and add to them when they time (yeah right!) to learn new things.

Not sure what you mean by "a fast way of zipping around 3dSpace"? Do you use AutoCad's orbit view, along with the zoom tools? I find snapping to objects in 3D space easier in AutoCad than in Max/Viz too, in fact that's one of the things that drives me crazy with Max/Viz - snapping and just drawing lines is a real chore for me. Also you can't start a line, move your cross-hair and type in distance in Viz or Max, but then it wasn't meant to be a drafting program like AutoCad.

There are boolean tools in Viz and Max, but I don't use them very often - they always were hit & miss. I think a lot of people use Power Booleans.

I can't live without file linking. It's gotten a lot better over the years. Geometry comes in fast, without the normals being flipped all around and there are lots of options as to how you want the AutoCad model brought in. And, if you work in a design environment, it makes changes in AutoCad translated into Max a breeze.

[Chad Warner]

I use AutoCad almost 98% for modeling. Things in Viz that I model are curbs and stuff that like that which I use Viz's lofting. Also things like terrains ore anything free-form.

 

-Chad

[Onslaught]

99.9% AutoCAD Modelling here.

[Bhanu]

I use AutoCAD & ADT for major modeling work. File linking goes well with Viz 4.0. George Umara's books on AutoCAD would help you....

[STRAT]

i also model 99.9% in acad. the only bits i model in viz usually are more organic curvy bits like hand rails oe certain sweeps.

 

But, i also model my site plans in viz - i draw all the splines in acad then loft them in viz. like layering a cake.

 

i never ever file link. never have done. doesnt suit my style of modelling

[Reitveld]

Hey everyone. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Calvino: oh ya I use the orbit tool in AutoCAD however you have to invoke it. In Viz or Sketchup you just need to hold down an extra key and you can orbit and pan very quickly. I also like the precision that the snaps offer, but if you notice that sometimes when the UCS is oriented towards a face it becomes harder to snap to the appropriate thing (for example a window getting copied will suddenly snap down towards the ground plane as apposed to the wall plane).

 

Strat: I’m amazed you don’t file link. But that said, I’ve been learning (at my new job) to work with existing 3DStudio files that were not linked to AutoCAD. The people I replaced didn’t do it either. I’m guessing they did not because they were true MAX people not VIZ people.

 

Cheers!!!

[C.Vestal]

Up until a year ago, I started in acad 99% of the time. Now, 20% of the time.

I find myself in acad more when I have problems snapping in viz or really complicated designs.

[STRAT]

Reitveld - as i say, it's not my cup of tea. i forced myself to use it when viz first came out, but it really doesnt suit my modelling style. slowed me down too.

 

by the time im ready to go into viz my model is finished anyway. i have no need to model in acad and simultaniously develope it in viz at the same time.

 

i use cad and rendering as 2 separate entities. acad does everything i want. (as i say, other than curvey bits) so when i import into a 3d app i material it and light it all in 1 session. i have no need for progress rendering. if i do i just import my model into 3d app and render it's basic form then.

[fred_bock]

Strat way rules...

i model everything in cad, no solids, and the only file linking i do it's the x'ref.

[Vince Paske]

Hey everyone. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Calvino: oh ya I use the orbit tool in AutoCAD however you have to invoke it. In Viz or Sketchup you just need to hold down an extra key and you can orbit and pan very quickly. I also like the precision that the snaps offer, but if you notice that sometimes when the UCS is oriented towards a face it becomes harder to snap to the appropriate thing (for example a window getting copied will suddenly snap down towards the ground plane as apposed to the wall plane).

Cheers!!!

 

Hi Reitveld,

 

Have you tried using AutoCad's object snap point filters? I think they could help you with your snapping woes. You can invoke them after issuing a Move or Copy command, then type .z, type or click on a coordinate which then specifies where you want the object at the z axis. The work with the x,y axis's as well (.x,.y). Hope that helps!

[garethace]

 

by the time im ready to go into viz my model is finished anyway. i have no need to model in acad and simultaniously develope it in viz at the same time.

.

 

 

 

I will give you one good reason, if you learned to model in VIZ using tools like the Bevel Profile modifier to create quite neat looking objects, such as coving details etc, etc.

 

Bevel profile is a nice one for roofs etc, too.

 

But to be honest with you, VIZ would really need a couple of basic great tools like the Bevel Profile modifier to really make it worth anyone's while modelling using VIZ.

 

I don't think that VIZ really has those tools at the moment.

 

It gives you access to loads of tools, like Nurbs, pathces, meshes, lofting, extrude, parametric primitives.... but at the end of the day, these tools in an architectural environment, are about as useful as an ash tray on a motorcycle.

 

I used Form Z for years, which comes with a great standard toolset of solids creation and editing tools, along with very easy ways to 'get around' you model in 3D space and snap to whatever you want to, or don't want to.

 

I am playing around with Jeff's SMED tools now a bit, and very much like what I am getting out of it actually.

 

I whole heartedly agree, when you get a hang of surfaces in AutoCAd, it is a breeze to model with.

 

I set thicknesses to polylines in AutoCAd too, and use the 'Link with thickness' option set in VIZ linking dialogue box.

[garethace]

Hi Reitveld,

 

Have you tried using AutoCad's object snap point filters? I think they could help you with your snapping woes. You can invoke them after issuing a Move or Copy command, then type .z, type or click on a coordinate which then specifies where you want the object at the z axis. The work with the x,y axis's as well (.x,.y). Hope that helps!

 

Great tip, I only learned about point filters myself here at CGA very recently and have begun to learn how to use them. The actually work very nicely, with snapping in AutoCAd to pre-specify a z height for a new object.

 

I liked the tip too, to draw using 2D polylines, which stay on the same plane as you starting your first point on. So if you set you z height using a .Z point filter, every point on the polyline will be on that same Z height.

[zamalkawy]

well.... i'm using 3dmax or viz as main modelers, i forgot all about CAD coz in any time i have the modefier stack of any object i built before in max or viz.

[STRAT]

I will give you one good reason, if you learned to model in VIZ using tools like the Bevel Profile modifier to create quite neat looking objects, such as coving details etc, etc.

 

Bevel profile is a nice one for roofs etc, too.

hehe, i can model in viz, learned years ago. and i know what the bevel tool can do for me. as i say, i choose not to use it thats all. nothing sinister, just my style of modelling

[Reitveld]

Interesting tip about point filters. I never knew about them. I’m going to give them a try in my next model.

 

Thanks everyone for your insights!!!

[Chad Warner]

It's odd to me that no one knows about point filters. It was one of the first things I learned in AutoCad 3D.

 

Just out of curiosity, what are people's way of doing things without the point filters?

 

-Chad

[STRAT]

It's odd to me that no one knows about point filters. It was one of the first things I learned in AutoCad 3D.

 

Just out of curiosity, what are people's way of doing things without the point filters?

 

-Chad

lol, dont take this the wrong way, but i find that statement most naive.

why should we use them, it's a great little tool, but i mean an experianced acad user can find a million other ways to get by without pointfilters. you make it sound like a must have tool

 

i rarely use point filters, if ever. as i say, it's a matter of your working style. i very rarely find myself needing point filters and live very happily not using them.

 

for instance, it's like asking peep's what their general drawing methods are.

 

personally, my autocad ugi is so empty and void of tabs and windows i get collegues laughing at me wondering how i ever manage to do anything. take a look -

 

 

notice i have a couple tabs at the top and thats it. no icons, tools, menus, general shi*e cluttering up my screen. if i want anything i type it in (faster than most peeps navigate throught menus)

 

this would turn most ppl off, but as i keep saying, for me it works wonders, i model so fast with this method.

[Chad Warner]

I guess since I use the point filters all the time, I find it hard to believe that someone wouldn't use them. And I'm like you--I can't stand to navigate through menus for one command when I can use a quickkey to do the same thing.

 

-Chad

[Fran]

When I started AutoCAD back in '89, my workstation had an AT style keyboard with the 10 function keys on the left. It was so much more efficient for shortcuts because you could use them in combination with Ctrl, Shift and Alt.

 

I worked for one firm for 7 years and we were forbidden to spend any down time learning 3d because the CEO thought viz was a waste of time and that nobody would ever want it. The next firm I was with didn't have 3d in place either (1996), but the CEO saw some 2D wall sections that I had done and decided that I should start learning it. I did all of my modeling in AutoCAD since that's all I had. I bought Rhino in 2000 and never looked back.

[muzzy]

I guess since I use the point filters all the time, I find it hard to believe that someone wouldn't use them. And I'm like you--I can't stand to navigate through menus for one command when I can use a quickkey to do the same thing.

 

-Chad

As Strat said, there is no one rule to create objects...

 

I am teaching AutoCAD 2D and 3D for interior design students at Univertiy of Missouri Columbia. I had somewhere around 90 students in 3 semesters 4 sections. I teach all the commands, options to draw projects in AutoCAD, they always find their ways or understanding to model or complete the assigment. No one rule or right to create objects in AutoCAD.

 

This makes AutoCAD powerful and leader in the market (IMO), everyone can find a combination to do it. No need to force people to your way.

 

I always ask a simple question to observe them.

 

- Create a 10'x20' rectangle.

 

Think how many ways to do it ? It is slower, faster, easier doesn't matter. You have bunch of choice..

[garethace]

personally, my autocad ugi is so empty and void of tabs and windows i get collegues laughing at me wondering how i ever manage to do anything. take a look -

 

The polar opposite of that would be people who use MicroStation on the Apple platform.... the guys just leave the toolbar palettes lying in the middle of the drawing! And actually draft on tiny square of space no more than 3cm square..... your screen is just like the DOS AutoCAd screen I was used to on those terrible on wang systems back god knows when. When did you start to use computers Strat? Did you learn on DOS by any chance? Funny how time just flies isn't it? Seems like only yesterday in computing terms when everything 'seemed' to have solidified and settled upon a 'computing world built around what DOS could do'. I feel that the many windows developments ever since have, had varying degrees of sucess - but I wouldn't blame you for not adopting 'windows' at all.

 

CATIA is a software which I think is pretty intense on the old graphics card.

[Jason Matthews]

I use AutoCad to model with. And I use filelinking in Viz4. I also use Max on occasion. What is nce about being a student at a university, is that I get access to all of the software out there. Well, almost everything. I filelink to viz 4, save it, and then open it up in Max 6, and every thing is there. I hear that the new patch for Max 6 uses filelinking.

 

Patrick, have you tried extruding along a path? It is very useful for handrails, curved surfaces, and anything that is continuous. If something needs to be done in Viz that cannot be done in cad, I just seperate the object from the layer.

 

My classmates kinda laugh at me because I use cad to model and not viz, max, form z, etc. They also laugh because I have no menus on the screen in cad. I started cad on release 10, on DOS in 95'. They wonder how I can get anything done with no menus or drop downs. But I am faster than everyone else that uses the menus and buttons, because I have everything on keystrokes, even 3d cad.

[salf]

I model everything in AutoCAD and filelink to VIZ4.

 

I used to import the dWG file into VIZ, until a friend showed me the File Link way, is wonderful, specially since the ACAD model isnt really "finished", theres always changes on the model, and after i made those changes in Acad, i just hit the "reload" button on the File Link Manager, and thats it, updated VIZ model.

 

However i wish i could model with VIZ, im gonna try to learn it, but i find it difficult, maybe cuz im just to used to AotoCAD, yesterday i was trying to know the distance between to points in VIZ, and it was a living hell, i couldnt get to measure the points i wanted, i dont understand the VIZ snaps.

[eagle]

I used to use autocad to build models, once I've learned how to make model in viz, I never switch back to autocad. It's much more convenient and easy modeling in viz, and you can edit easily. In viz, you only model those face that can be seen, you can control the complexity of a curve (steps). most of the time I just extrde an open line, you don't need the back face of it. Usually you have to assign a 2sided material to an autocad model, or force rendering 2 sided, otherwise the rendering result usually turned to be wrong, this increase rendering time significantly. In autocad, you have to constantly change the ucs, in viz just click the viewport you want to draw, then draw it. 2.5 and 3 snap are very useful, you can build your model as precise as in autocad. when modeling soft edged or organic object, the choice is definitely viz. I know once you are acustomed to one method to do your job, you tend not to change to another one. just simply resist it. imo, throw autocad modeling away, trust me, you can save your modeling, editing and rendering time a lot.

try not to use boolean in viz only when neccessary, you can always find other ways modeling what you want. there are so many alternative modeling method in viz.