Rights to the Model not the Final Image

[Kreation]

Hello All,

 

I have a legal question.Who owns the rights to the 3d model when a freelancer has created it outside of the company who created the image?Any ideas?

 

I have been at this for years and have quite a library of 3d models that I created myself for other companies.

 

The architects have the rights for the dwgs and the companies have the rights for the final image but where does that leave the modeller,does the paying company own sole rights to the model or is it a shared copyright between Architect/Image house and Modeller???Does the Modeller have any entitlement

 

Is it necessary to contact original architects for permission to use the model ?What happens if the company no longer exists or you dont know who they are?(Title Blocks removed)

 

Out of professional courtesy I feel contact should be made with all parties involved but its the actual legality I'm wondering about?

 

Any one have any idea of legality's of Rendering these models and putting the images up on the web?

 

Any lawyers/render heads out there?

 

I'm going to try and contact the relevant authorities to find out for sure, but maybe some members have come across this.I'll post back if I get any info.

 

All thoughts appreciated.

[BVI]

Depends on the contractual terms - but whom ever paid for it would probably retain the rights.

 

I know that when we use freelancers I would not be happy if the decided to distribute models created on our behalf.

[Brodie Geers]

It's a good question. I'll look forward to a legal response.

 

My guess is that one would need a bit more information before answering your question though. Do you have contract that was signed? What did it say? What was the contract for (images, video, model...)? Was the model ever delivered to the client?

 

My bet would be that if the original contract was for a series of images, and the model was never distributed to the client, then it's yours and yours alone (legally at least). I would compare it to photography. That is, when a client pays a photographer for a series of photos, the client has no legal right to anything IN those photos, only the photos themselves. If a photographer built a little abstract model and photographed it, he should legally be able to sell that model or sell other photos of that model.

 

The only hairy part is that you (presumably) you constructed the model in accordance with a set of .dwg's that aren't yours. So the other way to look at it would be as if you'd built and sold an actual building with drawings that weren't yours. I wouldn't think that to be the legal comparison, but hopefully someone smarter will shed some light.

 

At any rate, I do agree with you that, at the very least, you should contact the clients ahead of time and try to make reasonable accommodations - and perhaps in the future, put a specific clause in the contract.

 

In fact, that reminds me of a website I ran across the other day ( http://www.freegreen.com/ ). They make and sell house plans. They'll even do a certain amount of customizing but in their contract, if you create a custom plan, it states that basically you have joint ownership of the plan. You can build 50 houses from it if you want and just pay once, but they can also sell it to other people. However, they also have an exclusivity option - for a bit more money, they won't sell it to anyone else. You could put in a similar option.

 

-Brodie

Edited January 20, 2011 by brodie_geers

[Kreation]

BVI I know that when we use freelancers I would not be happy if the decided to distribute models created on our behalf.

 

I feel the same.On occasion I subcontract( I use this term loosely, no contract ever signed) work out to other modellers that I work with/have worked with.I wouldnt be happy if I saw this model on another website but as no contract was signed there isnt much I could do about it, however the company that hired me could be annoyed, and this goes up the chain.That's a large part of the initial question.Where does the copyright lay,with whom? Feelings are one thing but legality is another.

A contract would definitely sort this question out in the future, but on back projects it lays open.

 

brodie_geers

My bet would be that if the original contract was for a series of images, and the model was never distributed to the client, then it's yours and yours alone (legally at least)I would compare it to photography.

 

I've come across digital rights for photography and there is actually quite a lot of literature available and the points made are fairly clear, however I haven't seen the same for this industry.

 

Personally contract wise there is no contract on a job per job basis made with me and with the companies,its quote ,quote accepted, model, deliver model.

 

The image houses are presumably contracted for a set of images/animations and in the majority of cases,practically all, the model is never sent to original architect/developer as recurring business is a large money maker on developing projects, updates to this that and the other.If the model was delivered to them they would have a lot of leverage with using other image houses than the original one.

 

This leads to another point,most of the visual houses are happy for me to use the models in an altered state as long as they are not in current contention (planning/competition entry's etc).

 

I can chop and hack and stick back together all of my models.Lets pretend we cut two models down the centre and stick em together,(if only it were that easy:) )Is there room for comeback against the modeller?Again for the sake of argument we will say its 50/50 of two models

 

At what point does a model become altered.Is it as simple as changing window styles ?

At what point does a model become unique?

 

hmmm..

[Brodie Geers]

Well, it would seem to me then, that if the model was never delivered then I don't see how it could possibly belong to the client. As you say, the reason they keep coming back to you is precisely BECAUSE you own the model.

 

-Brodie

[Nic H]

depends what you are using it for

if you are just practicing / doing personal images for yourself i wouldn't worry (unless commercial)

no one will ever see them let alone bother spend money suing you.

[Kreation]

The main question arises from a commercial aspect.

We'll say 5000 models and I want contact the architects directly as a new company that models only.

 

To show models there would have to be a Grey-scale rendering, what happens if one of the grey-scales is their building or half of it stuck on another half of another building??

 

This is all theoretical but its something I have been dwelling on for a long time.Where does the buck stop?

[AJLynn]

Are you providing the visualization service to the architects, using their DWGs to create models and returning them rendered images as deliverables? Or are you a modeler, doing freelance work as a subcontractor for the full service visualization firm? If it's the latter, unless your clients are dumb they made the contracts so that they own the models and your rights are going to be limited in the ways specified in the contracts.

 

Assuming your situation is the former, it's a bit more interesting. In most circumstances (unless you've signed a contract that's disadvantageous to you) the models are your work product, and the architect who is your client is only entitled to the deliverables. BUT the design of the building you've modeled is the architect's intellectual property and your license to use it extends only so far.

 

Usually the rights you will retain (but this can all be modified by local laws or the contract with the architect!) will include rights to use images made from the models in your own promotional materials, and to re-use the models in a later project for the same client. Content you made that is not part of the client's design (rocks and bicycles and "fill that area with medical-looking stuff" and surrounding buildings etc.) is usually re-usable. But usually models of things the client designed are not usable in projects for other clients or resellable.

[Kreation]

AJLynn

 

You bring up some interesting points.

In answer to Or are you a modeler, doing freelance work as a subcontractor for the full service visualization firm?

I'm a freelancer,modeller, (also an image guy but this relates to models) ,started working for a firm years ago where a contract was signed as an employee, then left to be a freelancer, I still freelance for them years down the road and will continue doing so hopefully...with this company I deal with things on a friendly level, I can check stuff with them and if its a yes then no worries, if its a no I step back and we arrange something.But what happens if I fall out with them? I've no intention of doing so but this leads back to the original q...Who owns the model if its not in the contract..

 

Usually the rights you will retain (but this can all be modified by local laws or the contract with the architect!) will include rights to use images made from the models in your own promotional materials, and to re-use the models in a later project for the same client.

 

Because I haven't signed any contracts on a per contract basis I dont know where I would stand.

One Job comes to mind,six weeks of modelling to the finest detail ,an absolutely huge building done in Georgian style.Probably the hardest project I have ever worked on.

The architectural company has now folded, but the different partners are scattered to the four winds into companies all over the world.

I was hired as a subcontractor for the company that were hired by the architectural firm.

There is no contract between myself and the Visual company (except a verbal one that I'll stay awake for 6 weeks and get it done and they will pay me...)

If I was to use this for my own promotional material what does that lead to?

 

This is all up in the air questioning, but I think its an interesting topic.

If anyone has links to Digital Rights Q n A's it would be great and I'll get onto them.

 

I havent spent much time looking but I cant find a space for asking q's like this..

 

Out of interest I saw that you are with 3Dats,I remember years ago a posting with a sample contract in it, that was four machines ago and is now lost in the archive of external hardrives gathering dust in the reference press.Is there a model ownership clause in that contract.Just wondering??

 

Many thanks for your two cents...

[Koper]

It all depends one what you were hired to do. I you're final delivery is an image or animation, then the 3d model belongs to you, if you're final delivery is a 3d model, then it doesn't

[Sketchrender]

To be honest nobody would begrudge you rerendering an image to stick up on your website to try and get some work if you credit them.

if your selling the model to turbo squid that's different.

phil

[AJLynn]

What Phil said. And I don't represent 3DATS, I just write about computers for them

 

Generally the custom would be that if you had some significant role in the image you can use it in your own promotional materials, but if you (and people working for you) didn't have all or most of the responsibility for the image, give credits.

[ivanjay]

My opinion (with know legal background) is as follows....

 

I very often outsource modeling work to freelancers. They take it all the way through final images and post work. Since they are creating my design I would be very unhappy to hear it was being shared with others.

 

That being said, I do not have an issue with a freelancer using geometry for another model for someone else given they are designing the space. For example, I am a foodservice designer. Let's say I am design a restaurant bar and we model liquor bottles. I can certainly understand and have no issues with the freelancer using those bottles for a similar use for someone else. Just dont share my overall design.

 

I also feel that since I am paying for the service I am entitled to receive the max file and everything associated. Again, my opinion, is that I should have the right to make future changes on my own and not be held to using the freelancer for everything moving forward on that project. I have paid for the service.

[johnc]

The works that are created are considered intellectual property. If you are an employee, then the employer owns the intellectual property. If you are an independent contractor, then you own the intellectual property of the works that you create, unless you signed an agreement stating otherwise. You can read up on it in this article.

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0GSZ/is_11_42/ai_53710428/?tag=content;col1