Do I need a diploma in building design to get into Arch Vis in Australia?

[R.Stewart]

Hi there,

 

I'm currently studying and I'm about 3/4 of my way through my course and it is torture. I can't stand construction but I love 3ds max and revit. I know if you can use these programs there is plenty of work out there.

 

I know a few people have dropped the construction subjects in the past and focused on the presentation side and are doing quite well. But every teacher I speak to says "no no finish the course" but of course no teacher is going to encourage me to drop any subjects. My max and revit progression is suffering big time from the extra work load. 8 subjects a semester is way too much.

 

I do plan to do the VGC course next year which is a Vocational Graduate Certificate in Digital Architectural Illustration which is of course focused on presentation and modeling. So I don't need the diploma to get into the VGC just the Cert IV which I have.

 

I'd love to hear from some people who know about the industry in Australia.

 

Thank you.

[Fooch]

Here are my thoughts and comments.

Firstly im a part time lecturer in university (I still teach 1 class a week) .. I also run squint australia so I see both sides of the fence here.

 

I've never ever EVER looked at paper qualification for CGI capabilities. A CV showcasing degrees and diplomas will never get you confirmed work. Word of mouth and good work does.

If your portfolio rocks.. you will get hired anywhere.

 

NOTE: now this is really important. Your work must be industry standard and beyond the normal uni staple ... Stuff that makes seasoned vets in the industry agree that its good. Post it here and see the comments you get.

Plus you must be fast. Uni based projects run per semester. We run our project pipelines weekly.

A lot of graduates think their work is good but its all actually all pretty average (I run through a lot of reels, cvs,portfolios a week.. trust me when i say this. Not a lot of the work is good)

 

If you aren't enjoying yourself in the course (dont drop out and leave a door open), take time off and try to get into an arch viz team. There you will learn the ropes and if you are keen and really good, any team will keep you.

 

Plus PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE..

[JonRashid]

sound advice

[Justin Hunt]

On the flip side, finishing the course will give you an advantage if you pursue Revit jobs. Its one thing to know the software its quite an other to produce detail drawings for construction and knowing how a building goes together.

 

I do agree with the others in that its not essential to have the degree if your going for arch viz jobs, its all about your portfolio visualization and communication skills. Whilst you may not be Alex Romen level (very few of us are), only put in your best work that demonstrates your skills and potential.

 

I have seen portfolio's that are beautiful, but once the person started working it became very clear that they didn't have to working knowledge to back it up. If I was hiring a junior, I would be looking deeper than the image and more at what they were trying to convey with that image.

 

It maybe a flat, shaded sketch-up render, but if it tells what the what that scene/object is , does, how its used etc, clearly then its a success. Doing that efficiently and beautifully is something that is learned on the job and comes with experience.

 

jhv

[R.Stewart]

Thanks for the input guys, I know for sure it's all about the portfolio. I'm not after a job in revit documentation but I feel it's a strong modeling tool and will be used more and more in the future so I plan to know it inside out.

 

I definitely am not enjoying most of what I'm doing at tafe and the work load is really stressful. I'm pretty sure I'll be dropping quite a bit next semester so I can focus on my portfolio.

 

It's great to get some feed back from you guys you have consolidated what I already thought about the situation plus shed some new light.

 

I'm confident with my modeling but I need to learn how to present well using photoshop or illustrator as I don't know these programs well. Can you guys recommend any online courses or any tutorials that can help with that side of things?

 

Cheers guys

[djoshi]

In my opinion ..

 

Dont..think much..always opt where u r interested..that will make u alive for years n years in that field..otherwise it will become burden..

 

For learning, its all self RND here..lot of wonderful people here to help you..

 

Dont go for any certification etc. its all to through to dustbin. Here only stunning work speaks(Very practical industry:cool:)..

 

So exciting & Adventurous journey is awaiting for you.. go get it...

[R.Stewart]

haha yessss I love your vibe Djoshi. I can see this industry is all about passion which is what draws me towards it. Not about what paper you have behind you. I can see myself being very happy creating architectural art work. I love this website too!! Its so good to have somewhere to turn for advice.

 

Consider me a life long member!!!

 

You guys rule!! I have 2 more weeks of pure hell then I'll be ready to really dive deep into this. Expect some weak attempts at cg architecture to start polluting the website!

[Dave Buckley]

Just to back up what Fooch said, I only just started working in industry, although being studying arch viz for a long time (self-study that is). The reason I just started is because when I left uni, all I had was my uni work, which I knew wasn't at a standard to be applying for professional roles with. So i spent some time building up a portfolio. Only when I thought my work was good enough and that I was capable of handling the fast pace of a production environment did I start applying for work with the pro studios.

 

And also, I've not written or updated my CV since I was at college. I've not sent it out to any of the pro studios I've worked for. A lot of job adverts will say that a degree/background in architecture/design or similar will be 'advantageous' but not 'compulsory'.

 

Please don't take that as a reason to neglect your CV, I really should update mine as someone may ask for it, but your portfolio will speak much louder than a CV if it's up to scratch.

[notamondayfan]

I agree with most of what people have said before, and echo that good, professional work is the only real way into the industry, and will get you interviews.

 

On the flip side though, completing the course will show you have commitment and the intelligence to pass. If someone drops out of a course I would want to know why. I wouldn't want to employ somebody who is flaky and doesn't have self motivation, which at the end of the day, that's what Uni is all about. Students with motivation nearly always out perform those without.

 

Also think long term, jobs are sparse at the moment, so you may have to take a job in another field until a job comes up that you really want. Until then practice, learn, get involved.

[djoshi]

On the flip side though, completing the course will show you have commitment and the intelligence to pass. If someone drops out of a course I would want to know why. I wouldn't want to employ somebody who is flaky and doesn't have self motivation, which at the end of the day, that's what Uni is all about. Students with motivation nearly always out perform those without.

 

I would say usually people from institutes are more habitual to spoon feeding. RND people can be more enthusiastic & can give day by day better products as they are habitual to explore new things by own..so I always vote for them.

[R.Stewart]

Yeah for sure Djoshi I can so see that at tafe already. So many people are too busy to really learn stuff properly and they just get spoon fed, not really understanding what is going on.

 

What does RND people mean? haha I'm not down with the lingo yo. Do I need to speak jive in this industry?

 

Our course is a 4 year uni degree stuffed into a 2 year tafe diploma. They do 4 subjects a semester and we do 8. If I was doing it at uni I'd probably stick it out because the student life is pretty sweet but this is torture. No sleep and we have to learn obsolete presentation techniques like water painting and model making. Honestly when was the last time a client asked for a water painting? a bit abstract I think.

[Jonathan]

I think what prospective employers are really looking for is attitude and ability, no matter what the background, academic or not. Your portfolio and CV should be honest and hopefully your background and skills will do all the talking. As mentioned earlier, sticking with a course, (even if you are not that into it) shows a level of commitment and determination. Regarding the 'no sleep' study comment; its funny, I was thinking about this just earlier today with bleary eyes. I think in this field the only way to advance and really get things done is through 110% commitment, which means lack of sleep, lack of socialising, etc etc. Otherwise, how are you going to stand out from the crowd? Good luck...

[R.Stewart]

haha well b4 tafe really started kicking in I was staying up till 6 in the morning being anti social learning max just rendering my mitts off because I'm happy to do that and really want to learn. I know this line of work demands long hours and is a life time of learning which I am totally down for. I Just don't want to be up all night studying construction theory.

 

The teachers at tafe have seen my eagerness and I've been offered a drafting job already but I'm holding out for a viz job.

 

I was just wondering, do you guys use revit at all or just max or some other modeling program? It seems like the world is moving towards revit because it has all the info.

[Jonathan]

For me, Revit is precise, organised and stationary, its really an objective piece of kit where as 3d visualisation (or the design of it) is, and always will be, a subjective practise and so the likes of 3DS Max will always have a place as long as there is a story to be told...

[Justin Hunt]

bear in mind that viz jobs a rear, and are usually come by through word of mouth.

[R.Stewart]

bear in mind that viz jobs a rear, and are usually come by through word of mouth.

 

I know it's not the most abundant source of work but there always seems to be a few positions available when I look on seek.com. I'd be perfectly happy to move interstate to Sydney or Melbourne and I have a few friends who are architects to get the word out for me.

 

I know I won't be ready for a good year or so at least so hopefully the industry will have picked back up by then. But there is always work overseas right? We don't have to just look within our shores.

[R.Stewart]

only just started working in industry, although being studying arch viz for a long time (self-study that is). The reason I just started is because when I left uni, all I had was my uni work, which I knew wasn't at a standard to be applying for professional roles with. So i spent some time building up a portfolio. Only when I thought my work was good enough and that I was capable of handling the fast pace of a production environment did I start applying for work with the pro studios.

.

 

Hey Dave I was just wondering how long it took you (including uni) to feel your work was good enough? How did you teach yourself? and how much did you study?

 

I'm working through the 3 3dats books and I think they're great. I'm nearly onto the second one. I've also got a couple of realistic mental ray books which are fantastic too.

 

I'd like to know which books you've read or, which online courses you have taken.

 

Cheers buddy.

[Dave Buckley]

Ok so how long did it take me? I started at uni when I was 18. I'm 25 now...but... I also studied 3d animation, it wasn't until my last year that I decided to look at arch Viz. I hadn't ever used or seen 3ds max before starting at uni either. I partied a lot at night but spent most of my days doing online tutorials. Not arch Viz tuts, just any 3rd max tut I could find to get a better understanding. My uni course only had 3 hours per week of tutor taught 3ds max stuff. But if you want to know where I learnt the most of my arch Viz stuff then you only need to look at how many posts I've made on here. It doesn't't matter which books you read or which tutorials you do, you can't beat industry experience which a lot of guys on here have in abundance. I was quite lucky when I started posting on here that a few people took very kindly to me and were always willing to help.

 

I will also say that since starting in industry 2 months ago I've learnt as much in those two months as I have in the last 3 years. Again you can't teach experience. I'm now surrounded by guys with a wealth of experience between them. And I'm learning every day that I go to the studio.

 

How did I know my work was good enough? The honest answer is I didn't. I took a risk. But I had a pretty good idea that it was getting there just from comparing myself with the work of others. I also put my work up for criticism on here, not for people to tell me it was good, but to tell me where it was bad.

 

What books have I got/read? All of them but I still don't rely on them. They generally represent the authors opinions on what is the best way to do things. And a lot of them never answer the important question. Why?

 

The best book I own and the one everyone who uses max owns is the help file. I taught 3ds max to beginners for the last 3 years and told every student that the help file will answer anything they wish to know about the software.

 

Hope that answers your questions and sorry it took a while but as someone else has already said. Practice practice practice.

[Fooch]

F1 --> the best tool to learn stuff from.

Pure max here for modelling

 

By the way Richard. I might sound like an old fob by saying this , and i do tell my students these all the time. If they think uni/class work is tough.. sit one day in my studio. I expect laser quick work thats excellent in hours not weeks. The tafe/uni stuff is dead easy compared whats expected in a real team. If it isnt good enough , it gets redone.. or worse, someone else takes over and you are sent off "to get coffee". Happen to me once years ago when I began and it thought me an important lesson that no matter how good I was in uni, i better buck up to learn from the real pros.

 

There is good work everywhere in aust. If you are good and fast, trust me.. you will find work anywhere.

Infact, I'm hiring if anyone is really good.

 

Btw, dont knock on water painting techniques

Old school brush work helped heaps for tablet based post work. We mattepaint a lot in our workflow.

Here's a tip.. a master of a tool knows when to put it down and a computer / max is just a tool.

[R.Stewart]

The best book I own and the one everyone who uses max owns is the help file.

.

 

haha the old help file of course I always forget about that thing. It should and will be my first point of call from now on. I usually go sifting through one of my books looking for a similar situation or look on google.

 

I also only have 3 hrs of max a week at tafe and it's a breeze because I've been putting in so much extra effort. But we have one subject design that kills everyone and I've always put a lot of effort into design and my other subjects suffer because of it. We got given a site, had to design student accommodation for 6 people and make sure everyone was getting good summer breezes and winter sun and privacy which was the killer. Draw all the floor plans, site plan sections etc and render them all by hand and present them artistically on boards. And on top of all of that build a physical model including the site and landscaping. They don't teach us design, we ask a question and they say "I'm not going to design it for you" and they don't teach us how to build models haha so it's pretty full on. Just to give you guys an idea of our work load. And that is just one of our 8 subjects. I love design and have always got top marks for it but it's too time consuming and only really suited to people going on to do architecture.

 

Anyway my model was due the day b4 my Max assignment and unfortunately my max assignment was incomplete because I put too much detail into my model. I was so gutted that I couldn't complete the assignment for my favorite subject. That's why I started this thread I guess because I needed to speak with some people who really know about the Viz biz b4 making any moves.

 

I know this is what i want to do and power moves need to be made!! haha I don't care if I don't make much money out of it, I know I'd be happy doing it and I feel I've got the drive to get me there. I just need to cut down on unnecessary study.

 

And for fooch,

 

I guess a lot of that is directed at you too. The max at tafe ain't fast paced it's too slow paced. Unfortunately I chose to model a massive complex highrise with curved glass curtain walls and a big pool scene next to it. On the beach of course. The file was about 170 MB and working on it was torture. Especially at home, I'd pan......waite 15 seconds then it would move over, and often not where I wanted it to haha

 

So I learned some important lessons there, Keep it simple!!! No time management could have saved me it was the scale of my projects that killed me. I worked my arse off!! up till 7 in the morning some mornings. Top marks for my model but we'll have to see about max haha

 

Well I posted one of my scenes for my assignment in the Architectural Visualization gallery on here so please check it and tell me what you think.

 

P.S. You are right about the photoshop water colour, I've seen some beautiful work using it from people at tafe.

 

Cheers guys

[R.Stewart]

Oh I forgot to mention the extensive client brief with a full site analysis to go with that design assignment.......Heavy!!!!

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

I somewhat skimmed this thread, but I will add an additional opinion to what has been stated....

 

While it is important to understand your software, and it is important to understand how to compose and construct an image, it is equally important to understand the visual, descriptive nature of language in the field of architectural design.

 

To some extent this can be a technical language that falls in lines with construction and materials, but that is the easily learnable part. It is not the part that is really open to interpretation.

 

There is another type of language that designers will use to describe design intent, spatial qualities, and general concepts. These are not descriptions of things that will be depicted on a set of drawings, but rather things that need to be interpreted through understanding of architectural design language.

 

The thing is, you will often get vague terms when someone is trying to describe the vision of the space, and your ability to interpret those terms will directly effect the outcome of the project.

 

The interpretation will often involve the need to use a bit of abstractionism in what has been said to figure out what the person was trying to imply. Think about how someone might describe the physical feeling you get in a space, or the tactile sense a color might have.

 

Every person that describes those things are going to describe them slightly differently. Likewise every person hearing what is being described will interrupt the that description slightly differently.

 

A miss interpretation will cause anxiety and frustration on both client and visual production side. A good interpretation of the vision will solidify you as the go to person for that client.

 

Where do you learn this language?? ...from professors, peers, designers in field, teaching assistants. It happens academically, and in the professorial field. It takes an open mind to listening to what people are saying, the tone in which they are saying it.

 

I don't believe it is an easy thing. You are visually and technically apt, talented or you wouldn't be pursuing the field, but just make sure to listen along the way. I know this is not something I knew when I started, and it is something I had to learn. Or rather it is something I am continuing learning because it changes, develops, and will grow as you get older.

 

Whenever you work with a new designer, look at their body of work to see what they have done in the past. Looking at their portfolio will give you a good idea of their vision, which in turn will help you decipher what they are conveying.

 

My description may sound a bit vague, and open to interpretation, but that is exactly what you are going to get when working with designers in the professional world. It is your ability to process and respond to this language in an efficient, effective, artistic, yet accurate manner while maintaining a high level of professionalism that will make you successful.

Edited May 29, 2011 by Crazy Homeless Guy

[Justin Hunt]

One of the guys in the office has a sheet with several "Archi speak" phrases in different columns, You choose one phrase from each column, put them together and before you know it you have an essay on design. Quite funny, but what is more funny is that we often get those phrases repeated back to us during briefs.

 

The brief is often more important than a set of drawings.

 

jhv

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

One of the guys in the office has a sheet with several "Archi speak" phrases in different columns, You choose one phrase from each column

jhv

 

I think I know thow the column lists you are talking about. I agree, at times it becomes oddly, or at least closely true.

[R.Stewart]

haha yeah I thought you guys must get some pretty hard to interpret explanations of what clients are after. I'd love to have a read of this "Archi speak" phrase sheet. It sounds very entertaining.

 

For sure the brief is very important, there's no point sitting down at the drawing board without a thorough understanding of what is needed.

 

Good advice guys I'll have to get up on my archi speak and start throwing it around at tafe while dressed in all black with a white scarf, grow a pony tail and a beard and change my name to Leonardo. haha that's my design teacher. A good guy, a good architect, doesn't teach much though. Just harshly criticizes our work.